Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Vor

Redemption

Recommended Posts

So what sort of things would characters have to do to be redeemed from the Darkside?

 

What would someone who is at say 0 morality have to do compared to someone at -100 or worse?

 

I realise most of you don't likely go past 0. But the groups I play with do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously I know it's subjective. There isn't a "one stop guide to redemption". But I'm just interested in examples you guys have seen. I've got a couple from what players did in games I've played in I'll post up later when I get more time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, there should be practically zero instant redemptions unless this decision is absolutely instrumental to shifting the balance from Light to Dark. This isn't something that should happen very often and would require the greatest personal self sacrifice. Not necessarily death, but compareable (loss of connection to the force. Forever)

 

As far as I am aware, there have only ever been three types of redemption; Vaders miracle (where he sacrifices everything to cast down the emperor and save his son.), actually being severed from the force (Old Republic era) or a rip off of number 1 (probably involving a poorly written comic involving Luke in Legends).

 

Otherwise most redemptions I imagine is because of players actually doing it the hard way as written; abstaining completely from the force and rejecting the easy darkside. It will be a long journey that may take anywhere between four to countless sessions, but when you finally reach the stage where you can turn back to the light? I imagine few things are more satisfying.

 

as for the minus morality thing, thats just silly. Theres no such thing as a value less then zero.

Edited by Lordbiscuit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To pull a line from the Order of the Stick web-comic, redemption isn't easy and it isn't for everyone.

 

Vader's redemption was a very specific case, and flew in the face of centuries of Jedi dogma about how once you surrender to the dark side, there's no coming back.

 

As Lordbiscuit said, the game rules already cover how to go from being a dark side Force user to a light sider again, and namely that's get your Morality up over 70.

 

Personally as a GM if I had such a character, I'd probably stage an adventure where the climax involves the PC having to deal with their Emotional Weakness as a final temptation when they get reasonably close to having their Morality go over 70.  It'd be the same as if their Morality triggered, and if they succeed in avoiding the temptation, then they'd get the appropriate benefit.  If they succumbed to the temptation, then the PC would generate a lot of Conflict for giving into their baser nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what sort of things would characters have to do to be redeemed from the Darkside?

 

What would someone who is at say 0 morality have to do compared to someone at -100 or worse?

 

I realise most of you don't likely go past 0. But the groups I play with do.

As you mentioned 0 is the bottom, at least there is no indication that it goes any lower in the RAW, just as 100 is the upper limit. There is a reason for this and that is if you allow going beyond these limits both Falling and Redemption could end up being nearly impossible within the scale of the system. Best to avoid this.

As to to your question though, I use the old WEG SW carrot and stick which is if you reach 0 Morality your PC is mine and is now an NPC villain. A Player has plenty of warning, and opportunity to redeem themselves once they fall under 30 Morality so I see no reason to bother giving them further mechanical opportunities. It hasn't actually happened in my game but if it did I would allow a narrative opportunity if the Player really wants to redeem their PC. If it's compelling I'll grant them a few Morality points and their PC back, the rest will be up to them.

Edited by FuriousGreg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So what sort of things would characters have to do to be redeemed from the Darkside?

 

What would someone who is at say 0 morality have to do compared to someone at -100 or worse?

 

I realise most of you don't likely go past 0. But the groups I play with do.

As you mentioned 0 is the bottom, at least there is no indication that it goes any lower in the RAW, just as 100 is the upper limit. There is a reason for this and that is if you allow going beyond these limits both Falling and Redemption could end up being nearly impossible within the scale of the system. Best to avoid this.

As to to your question though, I use the old WEG SW carrot and stick which is if you reach 0 Morality your PC is mine and is now an NPC villain. A Player has plenty of warning, and opportunity to redeem themselves once they fall under 30 Morality so I see no reason to bother giving them further mechanical opportunities. It hasn't actually happened in my game but if it did I would allow a narrative opportunity if the Player really wants to redeem their PC. If it's compelling I'll grant them a few Morality points and their PC back, the rest will be up to them.

 

 

I get where you're coming from on this.  My understanding is the D20/Saga edition was the same thing with going to the dark side.  Personally, I don't agree with such actions as the immediate answer (exceptions being the player, perhaps).  I wouldn't be against my players playing dark aligned characters, for a multitude of reasons.  The dark side is the easy path, and that can lead to interesting stories for the character, and the players.  Especially if the rest of the ground were not so inclined to fall to that path, either as force users themselves, or even just criminals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So what sort of things would characters have to do to be redeemed from the Darkside?

 

What would someone who is at say 0 morality have to do compared to someone at -100 or worse?

 

I realise most of you don't likely go past 0. But the groups I play with do.

As you mentioned 0 is the bottom, at least there is no indication that it goes any lower in the RAW, just as 100 is the upper limit. There is a reason for this and that is if you allow going beyond these limits both Falling and Redemption could end up being nearly impossible within the scale of the system. Best to avoid this.

As to to your question though, I use the old WEG SW carrot and stick which is if you reach 0 Morality your PC is mine and is now an NPC villain. A Player has plenty of warning, and opportunity to redeem themselves once they fall under 30 Morality so I see no reason to bother giving them further mechanical opportunities. It hasn't actually happened in my game but if it did I would allow a narrative opportunity if the Player really wants to redeem their PC. If it's compelling I'll grant them a few Morality points and their PC back, the rest will be up to them.

 

I personally disagree with the idea that "dark side PC=NPC" that was in WEG and the D20 versions of Star Wars. The current character that I am playing, a Human Warrior Shii-Cho Knight named Spaga Kraujas, is an arrogant darksider with a very strong sense of personal honor. Now granted, he doesn't act like most stereotypical darksiders, in fact he acts more like Dinobot from the Beast Wars cartoon in the 90. Having said that, the best part of having this darksider in the party is the interactions between the other PCs.

 

Currently he's the only one aware of his Force-Sensitivity (one of the other players is planning on his character eventually becoming Force-Sensitive but currently he doesn't have a Force Rating), but the spouse of one of the PCs is planning on coming into the party at a later point as a survivor of the Order 66 Purge. The interactions between those two alone will make the game so much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I get where you're coming from on this.  My understanding is the D20/Saga edition was the same thing with going to the dark side.  Personally, I don't agree with such actions as the immediate answer (exceptions being the player, perhaps).  I wouldn't be against my players playing dark aligned characters, for a multitude of reasons.  The dark side is the easy path, and that can lead to interesting stories for the character, and the players.  Especially if the rest of the ground were not so inclined to fall to that path, either as force users themselves, or even just criminals.

 

 

I personally disagree with the idea that "dark side PC=NPC" that was in WEG and the D20 versions of Star Wars. 

My reasoning is that we're playing a Lightside game so falling to the Darkside isn't going to happen by accident but  choices that the player makes. I'm not opposed to having the game go Darkside but thats a choice that all the Players have to make, if they do then I won't take individual PCs.

The other thing is that I still will allow a Player to Redeem a PC that hits 0 Morality, even one I've made into an NPC, but they will have to come up with a narrative that brings them back, I'm not going to just let them gather points over a few sessions because thats boring.

Edited by FuriousGreg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well for starters, it really depends on what they've done in order to become darksiders in the first place. We're not talking about folks who have made some mistakes in their time; darksiders are evil, your average morality zero entities are monsters masquerading as men. Darth Vader slaughtered countless innocents, and came back from the dark side only after saving the entire galaxy from Palpatine's oppression and at the cost of his own life. Then again, the only character more evil than Vader was Palpatine himself, so in theory almost anyone could come back if they're willing to sacrifice enough.

 

But that's not especially helpful in regards to your question! So assuming that a darksider isn't completely lost, they would have to meaningfully grapple with the weakness that led them to the dark side and perform an important redemptive act at the very least. Even after they rejoin the light, they would have to continue to right as many of the wrongs that they had wrought as possible. Some classic redemptive acts would include abandoning or even destroying the trappings of their time as a darksider (no matter how useful or difficult to destroy they may be), being open about their past mistakes and facing the consequences that they had dodged or denied with courage, and pledging their service to an especially moral mentor figure (such as a former Darth willingly becoming a Padawan, for example). A favourite would have to be placing oneself at the mercy of their victims, especially if they have no expectation of mercy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest issue with dark-side users is that they will almost certainly come into conflict with the rest of the players.  Dark-side adherents are selfish and prone to extreme violence.  To the point that they would betray their group if they felt it furthered their goals.  The simple fact is the dark-side corrupts anyone who calls on it's strength.  Anakin is a great example.  Anakin would never have decided to kill children on a whim or at the word of a single person telling him it's for the best.  He most certainly wouldn't have force choked the one person he loved above all else in the universe.  However, he started immersing himself in the dark-side, and it twisted him into something monstrous.  This is per the movies, and is irrefutable canon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My biggest issue with dark-side users is that they will almost certainly come into conflict with the rest of the players.  Dark-side adherents are selfish and prone to extreme violence.  To the point that they would betray their group if they felt it furthered their goals.  The simple fact is the dark-side corrupts anyone who calls on it's strength.  Anakin is a great example.  Anakin would never have decided to kill children on a whim or at the word of a single person telling him it's for the best.  He most certainly wouldn't have force choked the one person he loved above all else in the universe.  However, he started immersing himself in the dark-side, and it twisted him into something monstrous.  This is per the movies, and is irrefutable canon.

A very strong dark-side user can be extremely loyal based on the strength of those around him. He didn't turn on Vader and utilized him for nearly 30 years without issue. I would explain to a PC that you don't want them fighting each other but to say they would most certainly come into conflict with the others is a stretch. He should view the others as inferior but strong assets in furthering his goals. Palpating travels far across the galaxy to rescue a dying Anakin. Such action only made him stronger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My biggest issue with dark-side users is that they will almost certainly come into conflict with the rest of the players.  Dark-side adherents are selfish and prone to extreme violence.  To the point that they would betray their group if they felt it furthered their goals.  The simple fact is the dark-side corrupts anyone who calls on it's strength.  Anakin is a great example.  Anakin would never have decided to kill children on a whim or at the word of a single person telling him it's for the best.  He most certainly wouldn't have force choked the one person he loved above all else in the universe.  However, he started immersing himself in the dark-side, and it twisted him into something monstrous.  This is per the movies, and is irrefutable canon.

A very strong dark-side user can be extremely loyal based on the strength of those around him. He didn't turn on Vader and utilized him for nearly 30 years without issue. I would explain to a PC that you don't want them fighting each other but to say they would most certainly come into conflict with the others is a stretch. He should view the others as inferior but strong assets in furthering his goals. Palpating travels far across the galaxy to rescue a dying Anakin. Such action only made him stronger.

 

 

Yeah but that loyalty is only temporary. Both Vader and Palipitine knew that the day would come when one would try to kill the other. Both tried to use Luke in that same fashion. It's even why Bane instituted the Rule of Two, mostly because long term darksiders were always turning on each other. For PC's that means they are on a clock to see when that betrayal will come. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alternatively, being confronted with a much greater threat is a great way of ensuring that the PC's maintain a partnership together. That is the benefit of having a universal threat of the empire, even force sensitive fallen into depravity are forced to rely on others or be left alone in a very hostile galaxy.

 

That being said, it really depends on the method of falling; someone like Sidious was born to darkness thus is irredeemable because he is very comfortable where he is. Alternatively one that has fallen by drawing on emotions is more akin to a emotionally unstable mess, his heart might have been in the right place at somepoint but they are fully aware that is something wrong n the galaxy and them. The latter of which can be more akin to an substance abuser, they want to get better but until then they are voiltle ball of emotions. From there, they either stabilise or try to find themselves again by giving up on the darkness.

 

That being said, I can totally see alliences of necessarily falling apart if given a  easy choice, so be careful with that.

Edited by Lordbiscuit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...