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balindamood

I think I just figured out FFG'S conundrum with fixing the Scyk

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There seems to be an arificial floor of 20 squad points for three attack dice. Spacer+title+mangler is 20. Any "fix" that reduces the cost of the ship would have to fill the title slot with something else similar to the A wing.

Except the interceptor, i guess. Nevermind.

Edited by balindamood

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The upcoming Attack Shuttle also clocks in with three attack dice.

 

Scyk is going to be a tough fix, largely because the Heavy Scyk title doesn't give them a lot of wiggle room. It'd probably need to be some sort of Scyk-only modification. Maybe something that adds an Illicit slot and reduces the cost of installed Illicit upgrades by 1?

 

If it were up to me, I'd give an errata to the title that gives it all three slots, rather than limiting players to just one. That'd free the ship up to install Long Range Scanners on it, which would be a lot more interesting and make it much more dangerous. It'd mean that we might also see ordnance Scyks, which are currently the worst idea.

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They wanted to make a scum equivalent of a glass cannon. Which for the most part they did, sure it is crunchier than a TIE interceptor with only one hit point able to suffer a crit but still it is just as fragile. Further more is that the dial is not as good as the other factions interceptors thus making it a poor jouster and not being able to find a spot anywhere in the competitive meta. 

 

It is a little more difficult to say why the Scyk is on the bottom where as a TIE bomber the problem is easy it is the required upgrades. In a way that might also be the problem with Scyks it was designed as a build your own ship with the title that gives you only one out of three options with two of those options being bad (see TIE bomber).

 

The Mangler scyk build you have is the best example of a good scyk but still is rather fragile for 20 points. The scyk fix is difficult because well usually to fix a ship they add a title or a modification. The Scyk already has a title and it is used quite a bit (because two firepower is quite lacking). However the TIE Defender now has two titles so sure another title can be made for the scyk.

Edited by Marinealver

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What does the Scyk having going for it?  It has 3 agility, BR, and the ability to carry a cannon with a +2 premium.  Where does it have problems?  Cost and a pretty terrible dial for what many thought should be the Scum "interceptor" to go with the Z-95 fodder.

 

To make the Scyk playable they either need to cut its cost or greatly increase its speed and maneuverability.  Although it may pigeon hole the ship I wonder if a "Scyk gunship" title for 0 that gave the ship the cannon slot would have it see play.  Essentially it is the Heavy Scyk title except cheaper because you restrict the choices on what can be mounted; never mind that is what you would have mounted to the Scyk anyway.  Maybe it needs to cost a point to prevent 20 point HLC spam but while that could lead to a lot of firepower (purchased from other expansions) it is still a fragile body carrying that load.

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Its cost isn't necessarily the problem. The problem is that the Scyk isn't accomplishing what it sets out to do.

 

Without a title, it's trying to be an interceptor. If we look at the other interceptors in the game, the A-Wing and the TIE Interceptor, they typically take Push the Limit to use one action to adjust position (boost or barrel roll) for the purposes of staying alive while using the other action for offense (or, occasionally, even more defense with Evade). Using Push the Limit is feasible because those two ships have so much green on their dials that they can clear their stress practically every turn. The Scyk doesn't have enough green on its dial to make PtL feasible each turn. So a potential fix probably should give the Scyk more green, or at least the ability to remove stress more easily. This would go well with the generic Tansarii Point Veterans having an EPT slot. I would say a title that makes all turn maneuvers green would do it, or a more elegant title would instruct the player to remove a stress token from the ship at the end of the End Phase as long as it didn't perform a Koigran Turn during the Activation Phase. The latter option makes Push the Limit or Experimental Interface viable without giving the Scyk a Defender-like infinite K-turn. It also would make it the best ship to combat stress lists in the meta without being too broken because at the end of the day, it's still a Scyk.

 

With the title, it's trying to be a glass cannon, but it's too much of one. The common sentiment is that it's too squishy. It's in the same points class as an A-Wing (using Chardaan Refit) but it has one fewer shield. Perhaps a fix that isn't a blunt instrument might be a 0-point title that reduces the cost of any modification on that ship to 0 (rather than a title that just adds a shield for 0 points). Such a fix would make throwing a Shield Upgrade on the Scyk enticing, but it also opens up other interesting options, like Engine Upgrade and Experimental Interface, which would make the Scyk even more interceptory (trading off the opportunity to make it less squishy).

 

A fix that does both things (make stress easier to clear and makes modifications free) might be too much, but then again, the Scyk is super uncompetitive, so playtesting may show that such a drastic pair of fixes might be necessary and not unbalanced.

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The problem with the Scyk isn't that it's a point or two over costed. Yes, that sucks, but that's not the real issue. Same thing with the Defender. It's also probably the one ship in the game that can't afford having an expensive PS 5 EPT generic instead of just a 1 or 2 point more expensive bid to PS 3/4.

It's that they're in a meta right now where glass cannons are a real bad idea. The meta that preceded this one was even worse. If you have 4 3 health ships up against say, RAC with Predator, count on losing one Scyk a turn.

Face an Acewing list and you're gone. Face Crack Squadrons and you're gone because you couldn't afford the bid to Tansarii Point Veteran. Face a fat turret or dual IG list and you're gone. Face quad Starviper or other B-, C+ lists and it's a fair fight.

So I take that back, the cost is kind of actually the main issue. Title should have just been free. A cheap one run naked at 14 points is decent for what you pay for. And if you choose to, you could slap an HLC on it for 21 points and not have to pay the 2 point tax. Or throw a cheap flechette on it. If it could use long range sensors that'd be great.

Also an illicit slot would be nice.

They don't need boost. People are getting too hung up on the word "Interceptor". Just make the title free. Just errata the **** thing and you instantly fix it. Compare a mangler PS Scyk at 18 points with an Alpha Squadron. Less mobility and no option to take autothrusters in exchange for the bonuses that the mangler gives and the extra PS. I think that'd be fair.

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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The upcoming Attack Shuttle also clocks in with three attack dice.

 

Scyk is going to be a tough fix, largely because the Heavy Scyk title doesn't give them a lot of wiggle room. It'd probably need to be some sort of Scyk-only modification. Maybe something that adds an Illicit slot and reduces the cost of installed Illicit upgrades by 1?

 

If it were up to me, I'd give an errata to the title that gives it all three slots, rather than limiting players to just one. That'd free the ship up to install Long Range Scanners on it, which would be a lot more interesting and make it much more dangerous. It'd mean that we might also see ordnance Scyks, which are currently the worst idea.

 

This is my favorite proposed solution so far. It's a simple 1-word change from "or" to "and" that might actually make the title worth some points. Are there any other non-unique titles that cost as much as the "heavy Scyk"? The closest ones in the function to add a slot otherwise not available slot so you can spend further more on this ship all cost less, although they are unique (with the exception of the one that costs -4 points!)

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I was thinking they should release a cannon that has "M3-A only" and is undercosted a bit. The squishiness would still be an issue but metas change, so that wouldn't be a problem forever. With some cost effective teeth the M3-A could be useful. Yes, they'll get shot down but if they weren't so expensive to put cannons on that wouldn't be as big a problem. I don't know if that would push them onto the competitive level but frankly I don't care. There are enough ships that inevitably some of them just aren't going to be good enough for nationals, for whatever reason. As long as they became good for casual play I'm happy.

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Create a set of 3 upgrades, m3a only for each of there canon missile and torpedo slots that cost 0 points and nothing else need change, besides more pilots.

Scyk linked canons - 3 dice range 1 to 3, no other effect.

Scyk missile volley- target lock, discsrd card to fire 4 dice range 1 to 2.

Scyk torpedoes volley- target lock, discard card and lock to fire 5 dice range 2 to 3.

Maybe a new m3a only modification costing 1 point.

Pilot modifications - you may discard this card to flip a faceup damage card over and ignore its effects.

That would go a long way to helping mitigate the glass canon nature of the m3a without over costing it, but at the trade off of no other modifications.

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TIE/fo shows FFG has given up on he Scyk. Except...the K-fighter was supposedly FFG giving up on the X-wing, but we've seen attempts to fix it since wave 7. And Imp Vets point to a possible Most Wanted Vets...

Still, 16 points just for a cannon slot on a 3hp ship with worse dial and pilots than A-wing, TIE fighter (both of them) and completely left in the dust by the Interceptor. B-wings and Defenders are far more expensive but make much more reliable cannon small bases.

FAQ the title to give an extra hull and maybe it gets a bit closer to not sucking. Maybe Tractor Beams will give a Scyk swarm enough of a boost to make Scyk swarms an actual option, at least in casual. I don't see FFG making another double tap title for the Scyk when BTL and /D already exist.

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If it were up to me, I'd give an errata to the title that gives it all three slots, rather than limiting players to just one. That'd free the ship up to install Long Range Scanners on it, which would be a lot more interesting and make it much more dangerous. It'd mean that we might also see ordnance Scyks, which are currently the worst idea.

 

Sounds like something I would say.

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The problem is that it tries to do too many things and fails at almost all.

 

As a glass cannon it forces the opponent to commit firepower to get rid of it before it start chewing through his squad - and in that role is sorta succeeds. As a glass cannon it is an artillery piece, while it has some defenses, its not going to survive long if you let it go on its own, support is needed - lancing with this is impossible - thus you probably won't field more than 1 of these. In this build it's almost alright except it lacks a 1 forward to help it keep at long range.

 

Without upgrades, it doesn't have the versitility of the Z-95 which can cost 2 points less or the Kihrazx which can cost 6 more points, both of which can equip missiles and illict upgrades.and have more combined s+hp - making it a poor lancer.

Without a PS 1 pilot, is a statiscically inferior blocker than the Scum Binyare, Rebel Protoype Pilot and Imperial Academy Pilot.

Without green turns, 5 straights or Boost it cannot function as an arc dodging interceptor.

Edited by Hantheman

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The upcoming Attack Shuttle also clocks in with three attack dice.

 

Scyk is going to be a tough fix, largely because the Heavy Scyk title doesn't give them a lot of wiggle room. It'd probably need to be some sort of Scyk-only modification. Maybe something that adds an Illicit slot and reduces the cost of installed Illicit upgrades by 1?

 

If it were up to me, I'd give an errata to the title that gives it all three slots, rather than limiting players to just one. That'd free the ship up to install Long Range Scanners on it, which would be a lot more interesting and make it much more dangerous. It'd mean that we might also see ordnance Scyks, which are currently the worst idea.

 

This is my favorite proposed solution so far. It's a simple 1-word change from "or" to "and" that might actually make the title worth some points. Are there any other non-unique titles that cost as much as the "heavy Scyk"? The closest ones in the function to add a slot otherwise not available slot so you can spend further more on this ship all cost less, although they are unique (with the exception of the one that costs -4 points!)

 

 

 

This would be a good fix, but the Fluff states the ship only has space for one of these not all 3.    Make a title that adds boost for 0 points usable with another title,    

 

That would fix it. 

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I like a lot of the ideas going on, but I would like to see the Scyk make its own mold, rather than trying to fit it into an existing category like "interceptor" or "cannon fodder". It's true that it falls short of the interceptor mold, due to lack of greens on the dial, and lack of pilot talents that contribute to maneuverability. And it's too expensive to be cannon fodder, when you have a similarly-dialed Z-95 coming in at two points cheaper. Instead of putting in into the interceptor category by giving it more greens or ways to remove stress, and instead of putting it into the cannon fodder/filler category by point reduction, I think it should do better what it was designed to do: to be a flexible, adapt-to-any-situation, customizable ship. I like the idea of giving it an illicit upgrade with a 1-point reduction to the illicit, but then we're moving it back into the Z-95 territory; our Z-95s are the cannon fodder who take Feedback Array and Dead Man's Switch (not to say that the M3-A shouldn't; in fact, that could be interesting, to see a bunch of 15-point feedbacks or dead man switches, compared to the 14 point Z-95 equivalents). But the M3-A is supposed to be something of a fighter, not cannon fodder. The pilot abilities, both being defensive pilot abilities, attest to this. Glitterstim would be fun to run on these 3-dice, possible HLC ships. But what it needs, rather than illicits, is adaptability.

 

Imagine this:

 

M3-A Variable Scyk - Title - ? pts.

Equip two different cannons onto this ship. You only pay the cost of the more expensive cannon.

 

Would this make Scyks more playable? Imagine you're flying Scyks, and for every attack you get to choose between two different guns, allowing your list to be highly adaptable depending on whether you're fighting B-Wings, IG-200s, or Fat Hans. How many points would this be? 3 points? (Should it have been the 2-point upgrade from the start?) You would be able to ionize those B-Wings/Y-Wings while throwing your HLC into those TIE fighters in your next match.

 

What about this:

 

M3-A Troublemaker Scyk - Title - 3 pts.

You gain a missile, torpedo, or cannon slot. After performing an attack with a secondary weapon, you may turn one of the defender's astromech, salvaged astromech, crew, or tech upgrade cards facedown until the start of the next Combat Phase.

 

I am not actually sure this is worth the extra point, as it's very situational. But that one turn of your opponent losing that ability granted by that upgrade could buy you the edge you need to get ahead of them. Shutting down R2-D2's ability for a round can be all you need. Or denying those green maneuvers normally granted by Nien Numb, R2 Astromech, or Unhinged Astromech can help you predict where this ship is going next round. This also gives you some more control; the opponent who doesn't want R2-D2 to be shut down will do everything he can to maneuver away from this M3-A's firing arc, allowing you to get into their head--especially if you're threatening them with an ion cannon or fletchette cannon. What else gets shut down? One round of Intelligence Agent, Bombadier, Fleet Officer, and Mara Jade, denied. It notably doesn't work on Rebel Captive, or the Emperor or Darth Vader if their abilities had already triggered.

 

M3-A Salvager Scyk - Title - 0 pts

When a friendly or enemy ship is destroyed at Range 1, you may freely equip up to two of its faceup missile, torpedo, cannon, bomb, or illicit upgrades. You may not have more than four faceup missile, torpedo, cannon, bomb, or illicit upgrades equipped in this way.

 

It's a really roundabout way of getting weapons equipped to your ship. (Perhaps this would work better as a pilot ability that works in tandem with either of the above titles?) This would be an awesome counter to some of the new bomber squadron's we're seeing (or, rather, we thought we'd see, with the release of K-Wings, TIE Punishers, and some new forthcoming TIE Bombers and Defenders). Fly a handful of scavengers all up in their business and as they come down, your Scyks get stronger. Imagine acquiring a bomb in the middle of tense Range 1 combat! Or acquiring a missile, torpedo, or cannon right before your turn to fire. Granted; highly situational. But could be fun. But ultimately, this still sucks; you're still locked with a bunch of 2-attack-die, 3 health ships at 14 cost each. What would you do against Boba Fett or Fat Han? So the Salvager would probably fly alone with a squadron of Kirhakx or other attack ships; the Salvager would go ignored as it zips around at Range 1 waiting for an opportune moment when someone dies. This continues the Scyk's purpose of adaptability as the battle unfolds, though it introduces much unpredictability.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by Ziusdra

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But that's exactly what the M3-A doesn't need. It doesn't need to become a Z-95--a 12 point illicit/missile carrier (granted, 13 points with slightly different dial). It needs to become uniquely Scykey and not fall into the same category and field use as a Z-95.

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Scyk only modification :overload 1 pts

 

when attacking with a secondary weapon, roll one additional dice.  Then roll 1 attack dice. On a hit result discard one secondary weapon.

 

Makes them a little more dangerous, and gives them some interesting roles.  Could be a very accurate ion carrier as an example.  Or heavy laser monster that would be targeted first.  But scum will have a risk reward that would be fun and thematic.

 

 

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