Tie Punisher...The good, the bad, the ugly

[EctoPilot 58]

hello x-wing community!

 

I am a new member here and I wanted to introduce myself. I have only played a few games but I am hooked! So far here is what I have:

Force awakens core set

tie phantoms x2

tie advanced x1

Imperial aces pack

tie interceptor x1

tie fighter x1

and of course the tie punisher

 

I am wondering, is the Tie Punisher any good? It seems to me that it can deal a lot of damage quickly especially with redline piloting. I would like to make a punisher phantom build, but I am not so sure. any help would be appreciated!!

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Well, since you are new to the game, I wouldn't worry too much about what is 'good' or 'bad'.  In a non-competitive environment, all of the ships are fine.  If you are going to tourneys, then yes, you may struggle while using certain ships, but frankly, being new to the game, you are probably going to struggle no matter what you take, because there is a bit of a learning curve to this game.

 

So to answer your question more directly, the TIE punisher is not a 'top tier' ship.  It doesn't suck, but you won't see it often at 'high level' tournament play. 

 

Having said all that, I think a TIE punisher + phantom build could work quite well because of the way the ships like to fight.  The punisher has a bit of flexibility with its boost, so you can either fly straight at the enemy in a joust kind of way, or you can use it as a flanking ordnance platform.  The phantom works best as a pseudo-jouster.  It goes straight for the enemy and then shuffles around the board giving the opponent headaches.  The reason they can do well together is they aren't likely to get in each other's way because nothing is more embarrassing than having your ships bump into each other

 

if you want to run them together, you are probably excited about using named pilots (although some people prefer generics, and that's fine too).  Here is the absolute core of what you 'need' to take in order for a named phantom+punisher to do decently:

 

Whisper w/ veteran instincts, FCS & advanced cloaking device = 39

Redline w/ FCS, extra munitions & cluster missiles = 35

74

 

That leaves you 26 points to round stuff out.  The way I see it, you have only two options: either add a pair of academy pilots (12 points each) and with the last two points, throw flechette torpedoes on Redline.  OR, take a TIE/fo and sink more points into your named 'aces'. 

 

I don't remember all the cards that come with the ships since my collection has grown too big to keep track of all that stuff, so I'll just mention a few good things that I know work well:

 

-more cluster missiles on Redline.  Or alternatively, a proton torpedo (everyone has that card at least!)

-crew on Whisper.  Best choices are: gunner, rebel captive or intelligence agent (not necessarily in that order, but pretty close).  'Honourable mention crew': tactician, recon specialist or maybe mara jade

- given what you have, you should probably fly a TIE/fo naked, or perhaps with push the limit (omega squad pilot, zeta ace or omega ace being the best choices for that).

 

You could also run generic phantom and a generic Punisher, and that would let you take a more powerful 3rd ship, or possibly 4 ships, but there are so many possibilities in that direction, you'd have to be more specific with what you really wanted to fly in order for me to make any suggestions...

 

Welcome to the game though!

Edited December 18, 2015 by blade_mercurial

[Darth Chuck 532]

I am in love with Redline.  Granted she runs at about 35 points to be effective, but she can put the hurt on ships when loaded up with Cluster Missiles and Fire Control System.  Also, the Extra Munitions card is worth owning if you ever have the inkling to run any sort of ordnance.  Is it top-of-the-line competitive?  I don't know.  I don't go to tournaments.  Yet.

[Carnor Rex 253]

I personally really enjoy running punishers. As stated they aren't 'top tier' due to several issues such as stress locking out your ability to fire ordnance/drop bombs and also their cost. That said they've been getting some love so they are getting better. One of the aspects I like most about the punisher is how many ways you can build it. Its not like say an interceptor which already builds itself. Y wings same. Theres too much of that. And regardless of how they are built they usually hit very hard.

 

Cheap expendable go with the cutlass, EM, add missiles of choice and consider LRS. Heavy hitter bring redline with EM, double clusters, or some plasma torpedoes and FCS.

 

Want straight disruption you can go deathrain with conner nets and experimental interface. She can threaten range 4 on any ace. More versatile DR diversify your bombs, drop EI for adv sensors and add LRS and flechettes. Soo many possibilities. But ya I'd say totally worth picking up just be aware there is more of a learning curve here. 

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

"good" or "bad" don't really cut it

 

**** is "skill intensive"

 

lacking defensive tech and with only 9 health to spare (trust me, that **** vanishes quickly), the punisher is only as good as you are. Deathrain is especially difficult to use because of the positioning required to work with bombs, but he's stupid fun once you get used to him.

 

 

currently, I'm waiting on the Wave 8 upgrade, Guidance something, that promises to do something ordnance in some way.  If it provides focus modifiers, they and redline are going to be a monstrous force. Currently, modified cluster missiles already tear holes through most things in the game, but with focus it'll also dodge the crippling issue of bull dice

 

Redline also takes practice to use because he flies like a brick, has an armor made of cotton fluff, and has a lower PS which means fiddling for TLs against higher PS aces such as Vader/Soontir

 

Planning ahead to get an ideal first engagement (i.e, TL + ordnance on the desired target) is essential to using him efficiency, as every turn spent piddling away with 2-dice is an absolute waste

 

Given his squishiness, Redline benefits a lot more from having some bouncers, rather than a single ace, between him and the enemy. Blocked opponents have a harder time dodging the punisher, and having no modifiers means they're easier to hit and do less damage.

[EctoPilot 58]

Thanks Blade_mercurial, Darth Chuck, Carnor Rex, and ficklegreendice for all the feed back!!! I have not had much time to play with the holidays coming up and the what not.

I do not know a few of the acronyms and abbreviations that were thrown around in these boards, is there a board with a list?

 

Hopefully I can play around and see what works!!

[Skeether 148]

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/129794-x-wing-slang-glossary/

The x-wing slang glossary. It will come with time. I still have to look up some obscure ones from time to time.

[slimeball 18]

I love the punisher, its technically not a great ship due to it being pretty upgrade intensive, but can be really good in the right hands.

I also love the idea of the front release bombs before barrel rolling out the way. It makes me feel more like bombs in space would really be used, a quick burst of speed to impart momentum then away it flies into the enemy.

[Mackie72 0]

I think what makes a "good" or "bad" ship depends on what you're doing.  If you're playing a more point-intensive mission or just last-man-standing game, the more expensive ships come into their own.  If you're doing a 100-point tournament-style game (even if it's not a competitive tournament), usually you'll find the higher-cost ships have trouble living up to their expense, especially with ordnance.  It's really frustrating for your Punisher to get blown up while still carrying most of its munitions on board, or, if you're playing a mission, to have the mission end before you've used much of the ordnance.  

[USCGrad90 884]

Whisper w/ veteran instincts, FCS & advanced cloaking device = 39

Redline w/ FCS, extra munitions & cluster missiles = 35

74

 

That leaves you 26 points to round stuff out.  The way I see it, you have only two options: either add a pair of academy pilots (12 points each) and with the last two points, throw flechette torpedoes on Redline.  OR, take a TIE/fo and sink more points into your named pilots.

You could also try some different ships:

PS4 Tie Interceptor Saber +PushtheLimit +Autothrusters (26)

OR

PS2 Tie Advanced Tempest + Homing Missles (26)

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

 

Whisper w/ veteran instincts, FCS & advanced cloaking device = 39

Redline w/ FCS, extra munitions & cluster missiles = 35

74

 

That leaves you 26 points to round stuff out.  The way I see it, you have only two options: either add a pair of academy pilots (12 points each) and with the last two points, throw flechette torpedoes on Redline.  OR, take a TIE/fo and sink more points into your named pilots.

You could also try some different ships:

PS4 Tie Interceptor Saber +PushtheLimit +Autothrusters (26)

OR

PS2 Tie Advanced Tempest + Homing Missles (26)

 

Tempest with homing missile is not a much of an option without the x-1 title, and he does not have autothrusters----otherwise I would've included that

[USCGrad90 884]

Whisper w/ veteran instincts, FCS & advanced cloaking device = 39

Redline w/ FCS, extra munitions & cluster missiles = 35

74

 

That leaves you 26 points to round stuff out.  The way I see it, you have only two options: either add a pair of academy pilots (12 points each) and with the last two points, throw flechette torpedoes on Redline.  OR, take a TIE/fo and sink more points into your named pilots.

You could also try some different ships:

PS4 Tie Interceptor Saber +PushtheLimit +Autothrusters (26)

OR

PS2 Tie Advanced Tempest + Homing Missles (26)

Tempest with homing missile is not a much of an option without the x-1 title, and he does not have autothrusters----otherwise I would've included that

So you can add the x1 Title and Sensor Jammers. For Casual play it can be proxied. Tie advanced with the missle will pack a heavy punch on the initial attack, especially since you can use your target lock to modify dice. OR take off the missle and put on Advanced Targeting computer with the Title.

Proxy any of the upgrade in casual play to give him more options.

[EctoPilot 58]

Ok, i set up everything and played against my brother who was running the best Fat Han I could put together.

 

here is my squad list:

Redline - FCS - Extra Munitions - Cluster missiles x2, HU = 42 pts

 

Whisper - FCS - Adv. Cloaking device - VI - Recon Spec. = 42 pts

 

Which leaves me with 16 points left. i believe there was a tie/fo pilot worth 16 that I would have used but I wanted to see how I would fair with just the aces. 

[Default02 11]

Try this. 43 hit points. Fun.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (16)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)

Cutlass Squadron Pilot (21)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

[EctoPilot 58]

Sorry I have not posted in a bit, have been practicing with the list that you all recommended. I usually make the best Poe and whatever rebel ships I have and try my hardest to shoot down my imperial forces. Still need to work on my CQB.

 

Going to pick up the inquisitor today and see how the chimp does with redline. should be epic...I hope

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

Going to pick up the inquisitor today and see how the chimp does with redline. should be epic...I hope

I don't think it will be. Redline's ability is good enough, sometimes even better than a chimp. It will be good on a generic Punisher, however. Although then its in competition with Long Range Scanners, which is also going to be good on a generic punisher and LRS will definitely be better for Redline than a stupid monkey! Edited December 31, 2015 by blade_mercurial

[Darth Chuck 532]

 

Going to pick up the inquisitor today and see how the chimp does with redline. should be epic...I hope

I don't think it will be. Redline's ability is good enough, sometimes even better than a chimp. It will be good on a generic Punisher, however. Although then its in competition with Long Range Scanners, which is also going to be good on a generic punisher and LRS will definitely be better for Redline than a stupid monkey!

 

It's not out yet.

 

Also, as a 0 point Modification, it is great on Redline.  Fire your shot, use Target Lock to re-roll, then use the Monkey to change a non-Hit into a Hit.  You should do 4-6 damage every Cluster Missile card spent.

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

 

 

Going to pick up the inquisitor today and see how the chimp does with redline. should be epic...I hope

I don't think it will be. Redline's ability is good enough, sometimes even better than a chimp. It will be good on a generic Punisher, however. Although then its in competition with Long Range Scanners, which is also going to be good on a generic punisher and LRS will definitely be better for Redline than a stupid monkey!

 

It's not out yet.

 

Also, as a 0 point Modification, it is great on Redline.  Fire your shot, use Target Lock to re-roll, then use the Monkey to change a non-Hit into a Hit.  You should do 4-6 damage every Cluster Missile card spent.

 

I realize that.  I DID however forget that LRS means no TL from range 1 or 2, so nevermind.  Its not good on Redline at all. 

 

Guidance Chimps are not always going to be necessary given Redline's usually got a focus and TL's up the wazzoo.  But you can't really argue with 0 points, so why not?  Its not like she's getting a ton of value out of her mod slot (autothrusters being only marginally of value and munitions failsafe/hull/shield being near pointless).

[ChahDresh 390]

I don't think LRS is a good thing, necessarily, for Redline. The default combo people go to for Redline given his pilot ability is Clusters + FCS, and LRS turns that combo off. The Guidance Chip, in contrast, works with the combo, and works well with any other ordnance Redline uses, since you could apply it *after* his target lock rerolls. It'd also be a good counter to ships packing Sensor Jammer-- you can't reroll the Jammed die, frustrating Redline, but you can use the Chip on it. In other words, the Chip is an unequivocal buff for Redline, while LRS is situationally good and situationally awful.

[Carnor Rex 253]

LRS is fantastic but it's not for ships designed to carry larger payloads. Chimps otoh are.

[EctoPilot 58]

I did just pick up the starviper so now i have the Autothrusters card. I am sure that is better than the HU.

[Darth Chuck 532]

I did just pick up the starviper so now i have the Autothrusters card. I am sure that is better than the HU.

Not necessarily on a Punisher.  Beigh a 1 Agility ship, you will get hit and take damage.  I have used Autothrusters on Redline and was unimpressed.  It barely ever worked.  A Hull Upgrade is an automatic HP.  More reliable with a lower upside.

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

 

I did just pick up the starviper so now i have the Autothrusters card. I am sure that is better than the HU.

Not necessarily on a Punisher.  Beigh a 1 Agility ship, you will get hit and take damage.  I have used Autothrusters on Redline and was unimpressed.  It barely ever worked.  A Hull Upgrade is an automatic HP.  More reliable with a lower upside.

 

Hull upgrade is pretty meh on a 1 agility ship too.

[EctoPilot 58]

Yeah, kinda up in the air about the whole thing now. Redline got blown out of the water today when my brother hit her with 2 sets of Proton Torpedos from a b-Wing and an X-Wing. Did not even get a chance to shoot one rocket, lots of good the autothrusters did me there. 

 

I did play around with a soonter, and 2 interceptors and 2 ties. have not played them yet just came up with a naked list.

[f0rbiddenc00kie 159]

Also, as a 0 point Modification, it is great on Redline.  Fire your shot, use Target Lock to re-roll, then use the Monkey to change a non-Hit into a Hit.  You should do 4-6 damage every Cluster Missile card spent.

 

Wait... I thought you couldn't modify the same die twice?  Shouldn't it be that you have to choose EITHER to use TL or monkey?