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Guest ColGeneralVatutin

A call for decency. Profit is encouraged, but crooked profiteering on uninitiated and uninformed new players is...

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Guest ColGeneralVatutin

This is an expansion/repost to a forum post below from earlier today about the newly announced expansion. fantasy Flight has made chumps out of many of us and I'll explain my position as to why. I am typing this quick so pardon for any frustrating grammar or words flipped by spellcheck. The ethics of this company have gone unchecked far too long and their unbridled greed has gone too far, for too long. Join the rebellion...or run out of gas money and get caught slinging to get your plastic crack. I actually once ran into a arrested 18 year old who robbed someone's house he said to make money for X-wing a while back before I ever entertained the idea of getting into this game. To be fair the guy had some other obvious issues, but the point is a significant percentage of the people I see playing this game really can't afford it and make serious sacrifices to do so. This company is truly strong with the dark side. Profit is encouraged and supported, but making poor people without my sort of means buy ships like the Riader just to get their Tie-advanced flying again is just too much bending at the knees. The new announcement for the defender is just more of this ever revolving door of crooked moves. You and I both probably got a couple bombers and defenders and now they want us to buy another just to get the defender playable at a competitive level. With 100 points, I have played long enough to know I don't need another--do like the red though...nice. And look at that slick bomber?

Fix the old stuff by adding some bonus ship cards and and the needed upgrade cards into something that will expand someone's collection in a meaningful way, not a bend at the knees sort of way. For example, the Tie-Defendere could have been addressed in the inexpensive new Tie Inquisitor expansion etc, and not placed on purpose in expensive stuff like Riadiers Etc (EPIC ships so many don't even want) as the honorable thing to do for those supporting your business for so long. Not only have so many of us supported your company for a long time, but we have tons of expensive toy plastic that doesn't hit the table because your development team either purposely or mistakenly got the values wrong. I believe in the beginning they were error, but now it is on purpose. The development team is just too advanced to be making the amateur mistakes like the K-wing and Starviper etc.

The real issue is that new players getting into the game don't realize until it is far too late that they have been had...conned. This is why so many put up their collections on eBay. They are just sick of attempting to make inferior stuff work. I hear this from people all the time at all the local clubs, events, and cons I attend. 20-30 people told me point blank since I got into the game the reason they left X-wing is because of these practices. New players come into it never knowing the extent of the trickery and deceit on the part of Fantasy Flight until they have already attempted to work the maze of BS fantasy flight keeps throwing at us. There are so many gamers who have found out about these practices that they have just refused to entertain the game having been warned ahead of time by others that the pay to play aspect has bat sh$t crazy. So the other tragedy is that you can assemble the mightiest fleets and then your friends are wary of the possibility of getting involved and trapped like you so you find less players willing to play the stuff you spent $800 on and play the stuff you spent $50 on instead.

Stop the gouging, Rein in this revolving door of making stuff less than ideal on purpose only so you can sell more stuff to fix it down the road. They added a few cards to the meh, oh so meh, StarViper only for us now to need a fix to the Starviper when they finally get around to it. And mark my words, some of you will actually applaud them when the do because you're not realizing your being manipulated. If some of you can't see the obvious plan here, you unfortunately should be reading some more and playing less games. This is so brazen and obvious what they are doing and yet they keep getting away with it. Maybe, the solution is to get the world's best players to stand together against fantasy flight and finally say we aren't competing until you rein in some of this excessive greed. The key word is excessive.

I really don't have the answer on how we stop this continued excess to go unchecked, but I would like to hear your ideas on this more than mine.

This is not some communist, anti capitalistic call. No it is for all the people less fortunate than me that enter into this game thinking they are buying ethical, competitive goods only to find out $200, $300, $400, $600 down the road that the stuff they bought is "broken" because it was meant to BE broken so FF could sell you their fix to their own problem. This is so corrupt and dirty it is disgusting. Of course, you would never get the world's top 200 players to do anything of the sort of a boycott because boycotts never never seem to work due to apathy and self serving behaviors. However, in their case this is their main hobby and they aren't going to give it up for you the little guy. Principled living sounds good until you try it. No, you need to tell Fantasy Flight you've had it. Enough is enough. No more buying $70 ships for 4 pieces of 4 penny cardboard. Enough is enough. Your demands are reasonable and tell them that at GenCon and everywhere else they speak. Demand accointability for their actions during their questions and answer section. Don't heckle them or interrupt them but polite demand some answers. Heck sell funny spoof tee shirts and wear them at your local tournaments and post your pictures of a bunch of angry people playing their game--it is an oxymoron, but it says we love your game just please stop treating up like chumps and asking us to grab our ankles...my knees I am not as flexible as most.

To all the loyal supporters over the years they should finally do the right thing: issue an errata pack for a price $25-50--look I don't know the number or price, but you get the idea. And or as someone recently suggested calm for them selling existing singles from their store, or an affiliate, that would price their fixes to the game in a reasonable manner. Yes, that means they sell C3-PO for $2.50 +\- and even require a minimum purchase and charge shipping. Stop making people buy Epic stuff which I am guessing is a niche enjoyment anyway.

I am seriously not trolling. I just really think this company is disgraceful. I am not attempting to step on your toes or waste your time. Corporate greed is to be expected, but there just come a point were you really have to say seriously...seriously? I have spent at least $800 on Armada (I have for example 12 movement tools: 4x2 link tools, 4x3s,4x4s plus dice packs galor, mats, pimp organization, huge star wars fat head, lasers, etc.), over $500 in X-wing, and have a huge gameroom with two of my 7 tables devoted to X-wing and Armada.

I would not have gotten into X-wing if I knew they were pulling this kind of cr$p.

I like the game. But...BUT....there is just something so awful, so disgustingly greedy that just can't be overlooked no matter how good, maybe great game the game is. There just come a point where one has to call truth to power. To pull the Sh$t they pull and continue to get away with it because you all feel powerless to do something about it is the way it is, but it is wrong and unethical.

I have armada for capital ships, yet to be truly competitive I need to buy useless cr$p in my eye to make so many of my ships competitive. I don't want Epic ships and forcing me to buy them for unrelated cards for a different version of the game is wrong. I ask for some simple decency. You want to fix a ship and make it better...awesome, thank you, just stop putting your fixes and important, crucial competitive cards in stuff the average X-wing player would not buy. The squeeze is not worth the juice. I don't play X-wing tournaments because I use proxies and they aren't allowed. It is a pity after all The time and money buy toys painted by machines I can't have nice shinny gloss thick cardboard cards. I am stuck with a low res C3-PO etc. That is a pity that after paying what I have that that isn't enough. To be railroad into buying stuff not remotely near what I want is BS. Now include your upgrades and fixes with a poor ship like the Star Viper is one thing: $14.95.

This new release is great for those getting into the game p. The ship do look great but to get Tie Advanced upgrades I find out later I needed the imperial raider after spending $1200 and now I got to buy another bomber and another darn Defender instead of say buying the Inquisitor coming out for the upgrades to the advanced etc.

To top it off, half of the ships I buy are poorly assembled. My YT-2400 can't be picked up without it falling off the peg and ships point 10-45 degrees to the right or left and are pitched in crazy angles off horizontal because some Chinese worker didn't spend time gluing in the peg. Darn it let me glue the darn legs in. K-wing has its top glue off 20 degrees and the phantom has a fin pointing off funny. Did fantasy flight take care of some of this. Yes. Other stuff they told me to go ....myself as that is considered within normal tolerances. I pay $25 for a YT-2400 and spend hours giving them picture and video only to be told put some sticky tack on it. So I bought another one a long with several others. Broke the slave one attempting to wiggle the pin out of it and it shattered. I use a Plano tackle box for storage so everything is a tight fit and can't be gluing stuff, plus it is unsightly. We buy this stuff because they look good as well.

I am just angry that they screw up over so brazenly. I mean toss a bone every once in a while. One $20 pack of the fixes and upgrade cards, or even $2.50 a card would be tolerable, just don't for the love of everything holy make me buy a bunch of epic ships just to play the broken stuff you already sold me. There just is no reason in 100 points to have two defenders and even if they made them good enough for there to be just sell me your fix as part of the new stuff coming out. It is not a loyalty program, it is not charity, it is just the decent thing to do. I am honestly more angry at those less fortunate than me who really have to save to buy their stuff. That is what really angers me. Not that they are cheating some almost 49 year old out of some money but the college student.

-------------

Buyer beware, be very very aware. *** there are many elements to this game that are similar to a scam.

The only way to really avoid this is play this game in a bubble and think of it as just another game in your collection, use printed proxies and play with a few friends who don't plan on playing it very often so your small force stays fresh. If you attempt to make this a major focal point of a gaming collection, you are in for some very expensive hard knocks brought to you through shady business practices. If you plan on playing competitively, plan on giving blood a few times a month to buy huge ships that will do nothin but collect dust on your dresser or shelves which will become the ire of your significant other. You'll also start to need to hustle for the money you'll need keep up.

-------------

After many hundreds of dollars and many hard aches of chasing down a bunch of often crooked plastic miniatures, you might finally find what you are looking for...a collection that can win on occasion at your local store. If you don't play competitively and have friend(s) who allows you to make point fixes to ships to make them more viable than others, no worries. However, if you think you can take your stuff to a game store and be competitive for a period of time, forget about it. You might be able to get away with picking the right ships and finding the right upgrade cards on eBay, but that won't last long unless you are content with playing the same few lists over and over and over again ad nuasium. Oh, don't think you can just buy a ton of ships and mix and match and be competitive. You'll need cards from huge ships that are part of another version of the game called..."epic." Epic was the brainchild of someone who got a very, very big bonus one year unless they did to him what they did to me. This is where it gets so crazy, you might start pulling your hair out. Again, If you only plan on playing with a small group of friend and they allow you to print proxies than you will be ok. Just don't jenture out of the shire. If not be prepared to spend hundreds upon hundreds of dollars only to find your hundreds of dollars obsolete very soon unless you spend hundreds more, this is not the game for you.

All the stinking fixes the OP talks about is the worst practice of all and they should come in one master desk. X number of cards...one deck $20. Simple, simple, simple. Make better ships fantasy flight instead of attempting to sell people the same ship(s)they already have--albeit with a cool new paint strip...weeeeee! It is a hundred point game yet they want you to have 4 of everything because their appetite for greed cannot be quenched. This game is such a con job. I traded several board games for a starter collection and didn't realize most of the ships I had were worthless without a couple of pieces of cardboard. To make matters worse I bought a whole bunch of ships to add to my trade ($500+) figuring that would do it...a complete collection... only to soon find most of the stuff I bought was still not good enough unless I bought "epic" ships which IMHO are stupid for this version of Star Wars (that is why I have Armada for). Shame on you FF, shame on you.

Practically, forcing people to buy a $70 ship and several others huge, out of place, ships who don't play epic (silly IMHO) for a few cards just to be competitive is so devious and disegenuois. It is a slap in the face to their customers. This game was so misleading it was boarder line crooked what they did. Instead of just giving you the cards for the barely used Tie Defender and Tie bomber in say a recent new ship expansion as a thank you for being a continue patron, they approach it as, "Here you go have another two ships you already have that--stink point wise by the way--and you don't take away from home. The tie-defender which they are going to release their fix for by selling you another two ships takes up so many points by itself you sure as heck don't need 2 defenders. So you now have to buy another just to make the one you got serviceable instead of just including the card fix in say the new Tie inquisitor expansion. Sure you still have to buy a $15 ship, but it is new at least and reasonably priced and not an EPIC waste of space. Oh no, in their greed they put those fixes in stuff costing between $30-80--years later after you have been sitting on a pile of useless plastic long enough. Want to make your tie swarm better/different and not stale and have already bought 6-8 ties, here says FF, "let me sell you two more Tie's you don't need in a frigate expansion so you can get a few pieces of cardboard to play the tie swarm in a different manner than before--because they haven't gotten enough from you. It is one squeeze after another. It has gotten so far out of hand they have become both emboldened and brazen about it. People like me who had no idea what they where getting into just got body slammed money wise by these indifferent greedy people who willfully concealed these facts. Instead of designing new ships, they spend most of their time selling you the same darn stuff all over again. I now understand why so many people have finally left the game in disgust. They really rely on the ignorance of new customers to keep this crazy, "almost" crooked, business model going.

Worst part, it is such a greedy company they can't even put the pegs in most the ships so they are straight and point the correct direction. 60% look go in theory. Ships pitched to the side, ships facing 30-45 degrees in opposite directions, etc--even 10 degrees is ugly and I busted a save one attempting to fix the peg. Except to the pitching, most issues could be solved it they put a normal circular peg instead of a triable joint that the Chinese don't take the time to glue right 40% of the time. I bought a YT-2400 that just falls off the peg.p because the peg is messed up upon opening the box. I've played the game just a few times but it makes me sick to my stomach.p they have gotten away with this activity. When I mentioned something they said that falls within heir tolerance. FF thinks it is ok to buy a $27 ship and be forced to glue or put Ugly sticky tack into the hole so you can pick up a ship to move it. I can't glue to because then I can't transport it.

The fact the X-wing is a causual ship is also so egregious it merits disdain and mockery.

If I knew what I know now, FF would not have gotten a dime from me, not one dime. I feel ripped off so bad. Sure you can all say I didn't do my due diligence etc. fine...point taken. But in the history of buying anything in the last 30 years I can not tell you if I have even been taken/fooled so badly.

The level of greed this game rises to, is a a level for me never seen before in the history of gaming. I want C3-PO but I have to buy a ridiculous epic ship suited for Armada. Are you kidding me? Too bad boycotts never work because this kind of practice could be shut down quickly if people everywhere would stick together and refused to buy any new ships until they fixed this business model. In theory, it would start by getting the world's best players involved to say enough is enough.

Only, now when it is too late do I see the errors of my ways. I was surprised a great starter collection was dumbed for such a small amount, only now do I know.

------

Storage is very easy. Plano tackle box and cut out the inside top for to binders:one for ships and one for upgrades. Two 9 pocket binders side sleeve holding.

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You don't HAVE to buy everything g any more than I HAVE to read all that.

I shook my head and stopped reading after a few sentences as what I read came across as I want and I'm entitled give me give me give me.

I did t fancy that so I didnt read on. You can do the same. don't fancy FFG business model? Don't buy from them.

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Man, your butt needs a fire extinguisher.

 

IF you want to casually play, you just buy it and fly it.

 

if you want a super-competitive list, you buy exact expansions, or cards from them.

 

If you're a collector you buy EVERYTHING OUT THERE 1 PIECE OF EACH

 

what's the problem? Nobody's asking you to buy 4x Kwings for TLTs or 2 transports for non-unique droids

By far the only problem is that some cards are exclusive to some ships, like Lambda containing lots of epic grades.

still not a problem, if you want to be competitive.

 

my point:
take a fire extinguisher, rotate it so that it is aimed at buttocks, push the button and see the flames fade.

apply Understanding that this business model is fine to burned area.

 

Expansions are cheap

Cards are sold separately on second market

Cards are also pretty cheap

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Guest ColGeneralVatutin

@ all shields forward and the rest too lazy to read 1/3 to a half of my bloated remarks: sure it is long and could have used an edit. Sorry. Why don't you try reading for a change. It "appears" your capacity to engage material, topics, and arguments is part of the reason output America is so disengaged, uninformed, and apathetic. You could be either lady or just tired, but what I do know is that the written word scares you. If you can't add useful criticism to something that you find too long to read because your attention span is "likely" in need of work, or either you just don't care, save it for yourself...kid.

Apathy is the entire reason for the post. To bust through people's apathy about Fantasy Flight's morally bankrupt practices. If you want to look away just do so. Don't sit there and be too lazy to read even half and call it spamming or trolling just because there are paragraphs and you are more accustom to the points less informative. If you want to bury your head in e sand so be it,mbut pointing out you are that type of person is not helpful.

And I am attempting to help you--regardless if you see it or not.

Edited by ColGeneralVatutin

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Guest ColGeneralVatutin

Man, your butt needs a fire extinguisher.

 

IF you want to casually play, you just buy it and fly it.

 

if you want a super-competitive list, you buy exact expansions, or cards from them.

 

If you're a collector you buy EVERYTHING OUT THERE 1 PIECE OF EACH

 

what's the problem? Nobody's asking you to buy 4x Kwings for TLTs or 2 transports for non-unique droids

By far the only problem is that some cards are exclusive to some ships, like Lambda containing lots of epic grades.

still not a problem, if you want to be competitive.

 

my point:take a fire extinguisher, rotate it so that it is aimed at buttocks, push the button and see the flames fade.

apply Understanding that this business model is fine to burned area.

 

Expansions are cheap

Cards are sold separately on second market

Cards are also pretty cheap

Good stuff. I'll take funny just not apathy.

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Thanks, you just removed all doubt that you weren't a troll poster.

*in a pitched vocal

 

too fat to be truuuue!

 

 

 

Do you think this guy has ever heard of Games Workshop?

Owner of Apocalypse-grade Eldar here

nope, he hasn't seen it. Because he thinks FFG has a "greedy little business model"

Hobbies aren't cheap. 

Never they are.

Edited by Warpman

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Guest ColGeneralVatutin

This from the person with 4 IG-2000s .....seriously what are you doing with those exactly. I can recommend some other games. They clearly got you All Shield Forward! Cognitive dissonance theory means your mind is all in on supporting your habit and their practices.

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Guest ColGeneralVatutin

@ flight aster: Yeah certainly, they can do like so many and quit instead of attempting to keep up.

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Guest ColGeneralVatutin

The real point is what Ackbar is saying, "It is a trap" and most people find out too late the hard way.

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This from the person with 4 IG-2000s .....seriously what are you doing with those exactly. I can recommend some other games. They clearly got you All Shield Forward! Cognitive dissonance theory means your mind is all in on supporting your habit and their practices.

The only way you can play all 4 IG-2000s at once is....in......EPIC.

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Why don't you try reading for a change. It "appears" your capacity to engage material, topics, and arguments is part of the reason output America is so disengaged, uninformed, and apathetic. You could be either lady or just tired, but what I do know is that the written word scares you. If you can't add useful criticism to something that you find too long to read because your attention span is "likely" in need of work, or either you just don't care, save it for yourself...kid.

Resorting to ad hominem? I expected more from someone who took the time to write that long post. (Yes, I read all of it.)

Edited by Ecthelion III

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