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The Force Awakens. Your reaction? (Spoilers)

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Made it to page 34 of 47 before I needed to post to get to bed.  Saw the movie a few days ago now, and needed to digest/discuss with more ravenous SW fans than I.  A lot of the comments have actually been helpful in making me like the movie more.  So, perhaps surprisingly, thank you.

 

I got lucky.  I tried hard after the "we're home" trailer to avoid spoilers.  I went into the movie firmly believing that the old crew would be around for all three of the films.

 

Han's death was a gut punch.  Or maybe a kick to the groin.  Or both.  It hurt.

 

For me, Harrison Ford played the part perfectly.  Exquisitely delivered one-liners with a sprinkle of grandfatherly love and get-off-my-lawn.  I was concerned after the "Chewie, we're home" trailer, but outside of that line, he was perfect Han.

 
One of my best friends died.  I didn't need the other characters to be sad.  I was devastated.
 

The part that I have struggled with since watching the movie is that Han died in a horrifically post-modern and cynical way.  Disney tells us that fathers cannot bring their children back from evil they have chosen.  No matter the sacrifice, your child is lost.  Your child can only consume you for their own evil desires.

 

As a father to a 2 year old, a toddler who loses control of his emotions and throws rage-tantrums similar to Kylo Ren's dark-side fueled slasher scene, this has been a difficult message to stomach.  Almost enough to keep me from liking the movie at all.  This same 2 year old, for whom I sacrificed being able to see a movie I craved watching for nearly two weeks, will destroy me.  That's a tough message to swallow.

 

It is this very message that makes me hate Kylo with a deep, burning rage.  He's a shrine to Western culture's "kid knows best" belief.  And I want that shrine torn down.

 

That a pop-culture phenomenon of a movie could elicit such a reaction is my favorite part of the movie.  I despise Kylo Ren to the point it clashes with my own morals.  My emotions don't want to see him restored to the Light.  I want him slain; dead and buried by Rey's hand.  I want his crappy shuttle exploded over Jakku by Poe.  I want him to have to clean Finn's toilets before going down the garbage chute to be eaten by some horrid monster.

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Made it to page 34 of 47 before I needed to post to get to bed.  Saw the movie a few days ago now, and needed to digest/discuss with more ravenous SW fans than I.  A lot of the comments have actually been helpful in making me like the movie more.  So, perhaps surprisingly, thank you.

 

I got lucky.  I tried hard after the "we're home" trailer to avoid spoilers.  I went into the movie firmly believing that the old crew would be around for all three of the films.

 

Han's death was a gut punch.  Or maybe a kick to the groin.  Or both.  It hurt.

 

For me, Harrison Ford played the part perfectly.  Exquisitely delivered one-liners with a sprinkle of grandfatherly love and get-off-my-lawn.  I was concerned after the "Chewie, we're home" trailer, but outside of that line, he was perfect Han.

 

One of my best friends died.  I didn't need the other characters to be sad.  I was devastated.

 

The part that I have struggled with since watching the movie is that Han died in a horrifically post-modern and cynical way.  Disney tells us that fathers cannot bring their children back from evil they have chosen.  No matter the sacrifice, your child is lost.  Your child can only consume you for their own evil desires.

 

As a father to a 2 year old, a toddler who loses control of his emotions and throws rage-tantrums similar to Kylo Ren's dark-side fueled slasher scene, this has been a difficult message to stomach.  Almost enough to keep me from liking the movie at all.  This same 2 year old, for whom I sacrificed being able to see a movie I craved watching for nearly two weeks, will destroy me.  That's a tough message to swallow.

 

It is this very message that makes me hate Kylo with a deep, burning rage.  He's a shrine to Western culture's "kid knows best" belief.  And I want that shrine torn down.

 

That a pop-culture phenomenon of a movie could elicit such a reaction is my favorite part of the movie.  I despise Kylo Ren to the point it clashes with my own morals.  My emotions don't want to see him restored to the Light.  I want him slain; dead and buried by Rey's hand.  I want his crappy shuttle exploded over Jakku by Poe.  I want him to have to clean Finn's toilets before going down the garbage chute to be eaten by some horrid monster.

I too thought HF acted great in this episode. Still believable as a cool Hero, but starting to show his age, especially in the scene where no one but two gangs board his ship. The young Han would not have let that happen.

I also have two boys(a 5yr old and a 10month old) and for me the scene of Han's death rings differently. I don't get the message of "kids know best" or "you can't save your kids from evil" but a message of "a father will do whatever it takes to save his child" and "a father's love is forever no matter what." I also think that Kylo Ren was horrified at what he had just done until Chewie shoots him and snaps him back to reality. I think that that scene will flashback and provide some of the impetus for Kylo's turn back to the light. I do agree that I don't want him to turn back and would prefer he die a horrible death for killing everyone's favorite scoundrel, but I'm pretty sure the story will have him be redeemed. You don't play up his conflict and then make him die still a villain. I think, like Vader, he'll die right after being redeemed.

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Made it to page 34 of 47 before I needed to post to get to bed.  Saw the movie a few days ago now, and needed to digest/discuss with more ravenous SW fans than I.  A lot of the comments have actually been helpful in making me like the movie more.  So, perhaps surprisingly, thank you.

 

I got lucky.  I tried hard after the "we're home" trailer to avoid spoilers.  I went into the movie firmly believing that the old crew would be around for all three of the films.

 

Han's death was a gut punch.  Or maybe a kick to the groin.  Or both.  It hurt.

 

For me, Harrison Ford played the part perfectly.  Exquisitely delivered one-liners with a sprinkle of grandfatherly love and get-off-my-lawn.  I was concerned after the "Chewie, we're home" trailer, but outside of that line, he was perfect Han.

 

One of my best friends died.  I didn't need the other characters to be sad.  I was devastated.

 

The part that I have struggled with since watching the movie is that Han died in a horrifically post-modern and cynical way.  Disney tells us that fathers cannot bring their children back from evil they have chosen.  No matter the sacrifice, your child is lost.  Your child can only consume you for their own evil desires.

 

As a father to a 2 year old, a toddler who loses control of his emotions and throws rage-tantrums similar to Kylo Ren's dark-side fueled slasher scene, this has been a difficult message to stomach.  Almost enough to keep me from liking the movie at all.  This same 2 year old, for whom I sacrificed being able to see a movie I craved watching for nearly two weeks, will destroy me.  That's a tough message to swallow.

 

It is this very message that makes me hate Kylo with a deep, burning rage.  He's a shrine to Western culture's "kid knows best" belief.  And I want that shrine torn down.

 

That a pop-culture phenomenon of a movie could elicit such a reaction is my favorite part of the movie.  I despise Kylo Ren to the point it clashes with my own morals.  My emotions don't want to see him restored to the Light.  I want him slain; dead and buried by Rey's hand.  I want his crappy shuttle exploded over Jakku by Poe.  I want him to have to clean Finn's toilets before going down the garbage chute to be eaten by some horrid monster.

I too thought HF acted great in this episode. Still believable as a cool Hero, but starting to show his age, especially in the scene where no one but two gangs board his ship. The young Han would not have let that happen.

I also have two boys(a 5yr old and a 10month old) and for me the scene of Han's death rings differently. I don't get the message of "kids know best" or "you can't save your kids from evil" but a message of "a father will do whatever it takes to save his child" and "a father's love is forever no matter what." I also think that Kylo Ren was horrified at what he had just done until Chewie shoots him and snaps him back to reality. I think that that scene will flashback and provide some of the impetus for Kylo's turn back to the light. I do agree that I don't want him to turn back and would prefer he die a horrible death for killing everyone's favorite scoundrel, but I'm pretty sure the story will have him be redeemed. You don't play up his conflict and then make him die still a villain. I think, like Vader, he'll die right after being redeemed.

 

Of all possible messages, I think the scene breathed message 'a father's love, no matter what' more strongly than anything.

His actions made me like Kylo Ren even less, but I think he will be redeemed. If not for the sake of his mother (Leia), it would be for the audience, because deep down inside we all need that straw of hope that we can be redeemed even if we've made a mess of everything.

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Made it to page 34 of 47 before I needed to post to get to bed.  Saw the movie a few days ago now, and needed to digest/discuss with more ravenous SW fans than I.  A lot of the comments have actually been helpful in making me like the movie more.  So, perhaps surprisingly, thank you.

 

I got lucky.  I tried hard after the "we're home" trailer to avoid spoilers.  I went into the movie firmly believing that the old crew would be around for all three of the films.

 

Han's death was a gut punch.  Or maybe a kick to the groin.  Or both.  It hurt.

 

For me, Harrison Ford played the part perfectly.  Exquisitely delivered one-liners with a sprinkle of grandfatherly love and get-off-my-lawn.  I was concerned after the "Chewie, we're home" trailer, but outside of that line, he was perfect Han.

 
One of my best friends died.  I didn't need the other characters to be sad.  I was devastated.
 

The part that I have struggled with since watching the movie is that Han died in a horrifically post-modern and cynical way.  Disney tells us that fathers cannot bring their children back from evil they have chosen.  No matter the sacrifice, your child is lost.  Your child can only consume you for their own evil desires.

 

As a father to a 2 year old, a toddler who loses control of his emotions and throws rage-tantrums similar to Kylo Ren's dark-side fueled slasher scene, this has been a difficult message to stomach.  Almost enough to keep me from liking the movie at all.  This same 2 year old, for whom I sacrificed being able to see a movie I craved watching for nearly two weeks, will destroy me.  That's a tough message to swallow.

 

It is this very message that makes me hate Kylo with a deep, burning rage.  He's a shrine to Western culture's "kid knows best" belief.  And I want that shrine torn down.

 

That a pop-culture phenomenon of a movie could elicit such a reaction is my favorite part of the movie.  I despise Kylo Ren to the point it clashes with my own morals.  My emotions don't want to see him restored to the Light.  I want him slain; dead and buried by Rey's hand.  I want his crappy shuttle exploded over Jakku by Poe.  I want him to have to clean Finn's toilets before going down the garbage chute to be eaten by some horrid monster.

Dude whoa now hold on I'm pretty sure this movie didn't say "YO SON GON KIL U BRUH".

What the others said holds more true. But you're right, Kylo's an awful guy. Which is great, narratively.

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Just watched it a second time with my parents, like it even more now! The soundtrack, apart from the Star Wars stables, was pretty 'meh' to me at first. But now I noticed Reys theme - that one is pretty great!

 

Both my parents liked it, too. Not too suprising with my father who even likes episode 2, but very much so with my mother who used to only be annoyed by Star Wars-y things.

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Yeah, I forsee Chewies death in 8 too. Not happy about that and hope I am wrong. Doubt I am wrong.

 

I actual don't think they gonna bump off chewie. I'm betting this is the new adventures of Rey and chewie in the millenium falcon.

 

My guess is TFA (and 8th aswell) is the transitional piece and from 9 on it's Star Wars the next generation with Rey, Finn, BB8 and Chewbacca.

 

 

Yeah that's the same vibe I got.

:D

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Ahh there is a Film Topic wasn't sure there would be, I haven't read all the way through so forgive any repeating..

 

So Yes I have seen the film and I have to admit Disney didn't mess it up as much as i thought they would it is a decent film.

 

when Disney did their "Oh the EU is not cannon anymore its gone etc." I had A Lot of worries. Of course now I have a whole new set of problems ...errm EU is gone??? ... WHY the hell are you using so much of it then and throwing it all into one film??

 

Stormtrooper goes on the run (Allegiance), Lukes/Anankins Lightsaber retreived from Bespin(Thrawn trilogy, although it is by the Empire in that) Han & Leia kids (ok a lot of EU but was twins, ahh but who is Rey?) Hans son bit obsessed with Vader and falls to the Darkside(Legacy of the Force Novel Series) .. also in which his twin sister Rey ... errm i mean Jaina :) has to kill him.

 

BUT One Big Issue ...hmm?? just how reuseable would Starkiller Base be?? ..."feed off the sun and destory those worlds soldier", "ok done Sir" ... "Right next target picked, do it again soldier" .. "err Sir We can't .. the Sun just got burnt out with our last attack, think we need to build another base sir" ?? (and yes very different way of doing it .. but its still just the Sun Crusher from the Thrawn Trilogy as well)

 

So I am choosing to believe JJ said "EU gone, Screw that I'm gonna get in through the backdoor Disney wont figure it out"

 

About the only bit I didn't like was the whole Falcon Scene, Han, Collectors, CGI Monster chase ... just felt more Star Trek than Star Wars .. but Meh overall far better than I expected.. Good Film

Edited by Slash Macbain

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Here's a theory, and it's just that...

 

Suppose R2 went into low power mode to search his data banks for the missing map piece? Is it possible he did so in order to allocate all his available resources to the memory search? 

 

I dunno, seems weaker than water as I type it but at the time it made for a promising possibility. 

The only problem I have with that is it makes the timing super deus ex machiny.   That he's been running this search for years now, and he finishes at pretty much the EXACT moment everyone comes back with the plans?

 

I would be okay with that if earlier, they'd showed BB-8 uploading the files he had into R2.  And it just took a day or two for R2 to process the information and come back online.  But they didn't show that.  So instead, it just looks like ridiculous timing.

 

Nerds.

Well, we can't all be as cool as you, Other-Guy-On-Internet-Message-Board-About-Miniatures-Game-Based-On-Sci-Fi-Movie.

 

BUT One Big Issue ...hmm?? just how reuseable would Starkiller Base be?? ..."feed off the sun and destory those worlds soldier", "ok done Sir" ... "Right next target picked, do it again soldier" .. "err Sir We can't .. the Sun just got burnt out with our last attack, think we need to build another base sir" ?? (and yes very different way of doing it .. but its still just the Sun Crusher from the Thrawn Trilogy as well)

Assuming it can't move like the Death Star, yes, reusability is an issue.

 

But you know what?  It's still probably worth whatever they spent on it.  It's not really so bad that a weapon is only good for two shots when each shot is capable of wiping out all the planets in a star system from the other side of the galaxy.

 

It's like being in WW2 and having two nuclear bombs you could fire from the other side of the planet, and it burns down the forest you build it in.  The tactical advantage is overwhelming, even if the usage is extremely limited.

 

The First Order wiped out the Republic's current capital system, and most likely a large portion of their fleet along with it.  That's probably well worth whatever they spent to build it.

Edited by DarthEnderX

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My reaction, a solid 8/10. Was a very fun ride, great acting and effects. Only thing I though was silly was the reuse of the "deathstar" trope, and a few of the wink/nods to the original trilogy felt a bit heavy (dejark table as an example).

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Here's a theory, and it's just that...

 

Suppose R2 went into low power mode to search his data banks for the missing map piece? Is it possible he did so in order to allocate all his available resources to the memory search? 

 

I dunno, seems weaker than water as I type it but at the time it made for a promising possibility. 

The only problem I have with that is it makes the timing super deus ex machiny.   That he's been running this search for years now, and he finishes at pretty much the EXACT moment everyone comes back with the plans?

 

I would be okay with that if earlier, they'd showed BB-8 uploading the files he had into R2.  And it just took a day or two for R2 to process the information and come back online.  But they didn't show that.  So instead, it just looks like ridiculous timing.

 

Nerds.

Well, we can't all be as cool as you, Other-Guy-On-Internet-Message-Board-About-Miniatures-Game-Based-On-Sci-Fi-Movie.

 

BUT One Big Issue ...hmm?? just how reuseable would Starkiller Base be?? ..."feed off the sun and destory those worlds soldier", "ok done Sir" ... "Right next target picked, do it again soldier" .. "err Sir We can't .. the Sun just got burnt out with our last attack, think we need to build another base sir" ?? (and yes very different way of doing it .. but its still just the Sun Crusher from the Thrawn Trilogy as well)

Assuming it can't move like the Death Star, yes, reusability is an issue.

 

But you know what?  It's still probably worth whatever they spent on it.  It's not really so bad that a weapon is only good for two shots when each shot is capable of wiping out all the planets in a star system from the other side of the galaxy.

 

It's like being in WW2 and having two nuclear bombs you could fire from the other side of the planet, and it burns down the forest you build it in.  The tactical advantage is overwhelming, even if the usage is extremely limited.

 

The First Order wiped out the Republic's current capital system, and most likely a large portion of their fleet along with it.  That's probably well worth whatever they spent to build it.

 

And why are we No Longer on Courscant????  ...are we going back there later?

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I felt it played it WAY too safe with the constant parallel to A New Hope, but I'm also hearing that's something people really liked.

Loved the good guy cast.

Ren oscillated between interesting and annoying for me. Loved how badass strong he was in the Force, didn't necessarily love the actor out of the mask (seriously, stop hitting yourself). But I really enjoyed his tantrums. The dark side is about anger, and that's one angry dude.

The villains, otherwise, were TERRIBLE. Phasma, who could have been a lot of fun on screen... does nothing and gets showed down a trash compactor (off screen and assumed, no way she won't come back later). Hux is generic dictator. Snokes... Uhg. What a stupid waste. Be creative/original.

The factions were TERRIBLY explained. The separation between the Republic and Resistance, the scope of either the Republic or the First Order, etc... They left all of that unexplained, and for really no reason. I felt absolutely nothing when the Republic was wiped out (wait, was it? Or just the home of their fleet? It's not really clear, but they were supposedly targeting the senate, so...? That's not me missing something, that's more an example of their poor explanations).

Really wish Han had yelled "Jacen!" Just saying. I'm not sure how I feel about Rey being such a close match for Jaina from the novels (Ace pilot, extremely talented/gifted when it comes to machines, "the sword of the Jedi").

Did I say I loved the good guy cast? Because they were freaking awesome. Poe is a new hero in the films, a cocky fighter pilot who can back up his bluster AND isn't guided by the Force (this is what Wedge would have been like, skill-wise). Finn had some really funny moments, and Rey is a believable (enough) hero.

EDIT: Oh, and BB-8 >>>> R2-D2

THE STARFIGHTER BATTLES WERE AWESOME. Although I kept having the nagging thought that we only got three starfighters shown in the entire film (TIE/fo, Special Forces TIE/fo [i think?] and T-70s). If they had shown more ships, we could have expected more things brought to X-Wing (assuming Ren's shuttle is too big/awkward to make sense).

Overall, net positive. Obviously blows prequels out of the water. Felt like an updated Episode IV and, while that's not what I wanted, it works.

I agree with most of this. However, I am not sure Kylo Ren is salvageable as a big bad. He's just not scary out of the mask. At all. He really did feel to me like Anakin who never grew out of his whiny stage. There's nothing mysterious and alien about him to make him truly frightening the way most of the better (IMO) Star Wars villains have been.

I am expecting more development of the bad guys in the coming movies. I have big expectations for Phasma (in fact the tshirt I'm wearing right now has her on it...she needs to be much more impressive!).

I loved the new heroes. The plot was very close to ANH, which was slightly annoying because it didn't feel like the creators were challenging themselves, but I'm hoping it was done that way so they could focus on new character development...there was a LOT to introduce us to in this movie. I'm counting on more stuff being fleshed out in the next movie, both in terms of characters and setting.

Overall, I really enjoyed the movie. I'm a bit nervous about the next ones because I didn't think the villains were as engaging as the heroes, but it was good and felt like a Star Wars movie to me. It was definitely better than the prequels, IMO.

Edited by elfholme

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Here's a theory, and it's just that...

 

Suppose R2 went into low power mode to search his data banks for the missing map piece? Is it possible he did so in order to allocate all his available resources to the memory search? 

 

I dunno, seems weaker than water as I type it but at the time it made for a promising possibility.

The only problem I have with that is it makes the timing super deus ex machiny.   That he's been running this search for years now, and he finishes at pretty much the EXACT moment everyone comes back with the plans?

 

I would be okay with that if earlier, they'd showed BB-8 uploading the files he had into R2.  And it just took a day or two for R2 to process the information and come back online.  But they didn't show that.  So instead, it just looks like ridiculous timing.

 

Nerds.

Well, we can't all be as cool as you, Other-Guy-On-Internet-Message-Board-About-Miniatures-Game-Based-On-Sci-Fi-Movie.

 

BUT One Big Issue ...hmm?? just how reuseable would Starkiller Base be?? ..."feed off the sun and destory those worlds soldier", "ok done Sir" ... "Right next target picked, do it again soldier" .. "err Sir We can't .. the Sun just got burnt out with our last attack, think we need to build another base sir" ?? (and yes very different way of doing it .. but its still just the Sun Crusher from the Thrawn Trilogy as well)

Assuming it can't move like the Death Star, yes, reusability is an issue.

 

But you know what?  It's still probably worth whatever they spent on it.  It's not really so bad that a weapon is only good for two shots when each shot is capable of wiping out all the planets in a star system from the other side of the galaxy.

 

It's like being in WW2 and having two nuclear bombs you could fire from the other side of the planet, and it burns down the forest you build it in.  The tactical advantage is overwhelming, even if the usage is extremely limited.

 

The First Order wiped out the Republic's current capital system, and most likely a large portion of their fleet along with it.  That's probably well worth whatever they spent to build it.

And why are we No Longer on Courscant????  ...are we going back there later?
They don't want to reuse anything by name. Disney wants to rebrand Star Wars completely.

Besides not using any existing worlds did you notice almost all of the aliens were new. Ackbar and Numb were the old identifiable aliens I saw.

No Bith, Ithorians, Rodians, Twilek, Hutss...etc.

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Made it to page 34 of 47 before I needed to post to get to bed.  Saw the movie a few days ago now, and needed to digest/discuss with more ravenous SW fans than I.  A lot of the comments have actually been helpful in making me like the movie more.  So, perhaps surprisingly, thank you.

 

I got lucky.  I tried hard after the "we're home" trailer to avoid spoilers.  I went into the movie firmly believing that the old crew would be around for all three of the films.

 

Han's death was a gut punch.  Or maybe a kick to the groin.  Or both.  It hurt.

 

For me, Harrison Ford played the part perfectly.  Exquisitely delivered one-liners with a sprinkle of grandfatherly love and get-off-my-lawn.  I was concerned after the "Chewie, we're home" trailer, but outside of that line, he was perfect Han.

 

One of my best friends died.  I didn't need the other characters to be sad.  I was devastated.

 

The part that I have struggled with since watching the movie is that Han died in a horrifically post-modern and cynical way.  Disney tells us that fathers cannot bring their children back from evil they have chosen.  No matter the sacrifice, your child is lost.  Your child can only consume you for their own evil desires.

 

As a father to a 2 year old, a toddler who loses control of his emotions and throws rage-tantrums similar to Kylo Ren's dark-side fueled slasher scene, this has been a difficult message to stomach.  Almost enough to keep me from liking the movie at all.  This same 2 year old, for whom I sacrificed being able to see a movie I craved watching for nearly two weeks, will destroy me.  That's a tough message to swallow.

 

It is this very message that makes me hate Kylo with a deep, burning rage.  He's a shrine to Western culture's "kid knows best" belief.  And I want that shrine torn down.

 

That a pop-culture phenomenon of a movie could elicit such a reaction is my favorite part of the movie.  I despise Kylo Ren to the point it clashes with my own morals.  My emotions don't want to see him restored to the Light.  I want him slain; dead and buried by Rey's hand.  I want his crappy shuttle exploded over Jakku by Poe.  I want him to have to clean Finn's toilets before going down the garbage chute to be eaten by some horrid monster.

I too thought HF acted great in this episode. Still believable as a cool Hero, but starting to show his age, especially in the scene where no one but two gangs board his ship. The young Han would not have let that happen.

I also have two boys(a 5yr old and a 10month old) and for me the scene of Han's death rings differently. I don't get the message of "kids know best" or "you can't save your kids from evil" but a message of "a father will do whatever it takes to save his child" and "a father's love is forever no matter what." I also think that Kylo Ren was horrified at what he had just done until Chewie shoots him and snaps him back to reality. I think that that scene will flashback and provide some of the impetus for Kylo's turn back to the light. I do agree that I don't want him to turn back and would prefer he die a horrible death for killing everyone's favorite scoundrel, but I'm pretty sure the story will have him be redeemed. You don't play up his conflict and then make him die still a villain. I think, like Vader, he'll die right after being redeemed.

I agree about the message and about how HF played it. Han is my favorite Star Wars hero, bar none, but I thought his death was necessary for the movie and even "a good death". He doesn't have the faith in his son's goodness that Leia does, he knows there is a good chance that his son is going to kill him, but he tries anyway. Because that's what a father does. It's what I would do for my daughter. I thought this was one of the better scenes in the movie.

I didn't think Kylo Ren was horrified at all. I thought he'd made his choice, and was just 'in the moment'. I don't care if he gets redeemed or not...he's just not that interesting a character to me.

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I am probably one of few who legitimately roots for the dark side I guess but I cheered when Han died (silently because I'm not a **** to other patrons). It was the perfectly fitting move for kylo. I also hope that he isn't 'redeemed' and is now free to wield unlimited power as a strong dark side user. I'd actually like the villain to win something for once but I feel like most other people would be upset for Leia and rey and Fn-2187 and Poe to be slaughtered in the end.

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