Linked (Active) Item Quality - Rule Clarification

[ArcherDOM 0]

The description for this item quality reads:

 

Some weapons, like the laser cannons fitted to the X- wing, are designed to fire together at the same target. This increases the possibility of a hit as well as the damage dealt. When firing a linked weapon, on a successful attack, the weapon deals one hit. The wielder may spend (two advantage) to gain an additional hit, and may do so a number of times equal to the weapon's Linked rating. Additional hits from the Linked weapon may only be applied against the original target. Each hit deals the weapon’s base damage plus the total uncanceled (success) scored on the check.

 

When I read the section that I have bold and underlined, I read that to mean that an item with the Linked quality could be activated to hit with two advantage even if there are no success.

 

What are your understandings of that rule?

 

Thanks in advance.

[TalosX 184]

The sentence directly after your bold/underlined sentence answers your question:  When firing a linked weapon, on a successful attack, the weapon deals one hit.

 

So you have to score a successful hit before you can activate the Linked quality.

[Absol197 5,296]

Regarding this exact thing, I have a house-rule I'm considering:

If the attack misses, you can activate Linked to add 1 success to the check, or to add an extra hit on a successful check. You're still limited by your Linked rating, but this helps linked attacks have that feel of "more accurate" without unbalancing it.

Example: you have a weapon with Linked 3, and roll 1 Failure, 4 advantage, and a Triumph. You can spend the 4 advantage for 2 Successes, making it a hit, and the Triumph to activate Linked a third time to add a second hit.

In fact, I'm not a fan of the whole "attack MUST be successful to activate weapon qualities" rule. Sure, for some of them, yeah, but things like Knockdown, I can see narratively how you could knock someone over (say with a shield bash) even if you didn't actually hurry them like you were trying to.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Absol197

[Daeglan 5,950]

No. that makes link way way too powerful and it is powerful enough as it is. As to your complaint. If they missed why would they be able to apply any qualities? The only one that makes sense is blast and it already has rules that cover this.

[Kymrel 1,505]

No. that makes link way way too powerful and it is powerful enough as it is. As to your complaint. If they missed why would they be able to apply any qualities? The only one that makes sense is blast and it already has rules that cover this.

Agreed. Linked is already very, very good. 

[Kilcannon 177]

Agreed that linked is good enough by the raw. I actually think linked, two weapon fighting, and auto fire wore well the way they are. One of my players thinks two handed fighting is missing in this system since in previous holding a one handed weapon two handed used to add damage. Been considering house ruling a boost die and plus half your Brawn to melee weapon damage when holding your weapon two handed if normally a single handed weapon. Then for ranged holding two handed gives a boost die and the brace quality rank 1.

[TalosX 184]

Regarding this exact thing, I have a house-rule I'm considering:

If the attack misses, you can activate Linked to add 1 success to the check, or to add an extra hit on a successful check. You're still limited by your Linked rating, but this helps linked attacks have that feel of "more accurate" without unbalancing it.

Example: you have a weapon with Linked 3, and roll 1 Failure, 4 advantage, and a Triumph. You can spend the 4 advantage for 2 Successes, making it a hit, and the Triumph to activate Linked a third time to add a second hit.

In fact, I'm not a fan of the whole "attack MUST be successful to activate weapon qualities" rule. Sure, for some of them, yeah, but things like Knockdown, I can see narratively how you could knock someone over (say with a shield bash) even if you didn't actually hurry them like you were trying to.

 

As Daeglan said, "Linked" is already a very strong quality and this would make it overpowered.  Side-note, Linked tends to represent rapid fire weapons most commonly, and rapid fire weapons have a tendency to less accurate, not more accurate.

[Daeglan 5,950]

 

Regarding this exact thing, I have a house-rule I'm considering:

If the attack misses, you can activate Linked to add 1 success to the check, or to add an extra hit on a successful check. You're still limited by your Linked rating, but this helps linked attacks have that feel of "more accurate" without unbalancing it.

Example: you have a weapon with Linked 3, and roll 1 Failure, 4 advantage, and a Triumph. You can spend the 4 advantage for 2 Successes, making it a hit, and the Triumph to activate Linked a third time to add a second hit.

In fact, I'm not a fan of the whole "attack MUST be successful to activate weapon qualities" rule. Sure, for some of them, yeah, but things like Knockdown, I can see narratively how you could knock someone over (say with a shield bash) even if you didn't actually hurry them like you were trying to.

 

As Daeglan said, "Linked" is already a very strong quality and this would make it overpowered.  Side-note, Linked tends to represent rapid fire weapons most commonly, and rapid fire weapons have a tendency to less accurate, not more accurate.

 

except miniguns...they are WAY more accurate...but that is a special case...

Rapid fire weapons tend to be less accurate but when they hit they tend to hit more than once. Hence linked

[Jereru 171]

that makes link way way too powerful and it is powerful enough as it is.

 

Yes, we don't want Linked to get so powerful that it might be even close to Autofire.

But, jokes aside, I agree - Linked is ok as it is.

[Stormbourne 143]

On 12/17/2015 at 1:30 PM, ArcherDOM said:

The description for this item quality reads:

 

Some weapons, like the laser cannons fitted to the X- wing, are designed to fire together at the same target. This increases the possibility of a hit as well as the damage dealt. When firing a linked weapon, on a successful attack, the weapon deals one hit. The wielder may spend (two advantage) to gain an additional hit, and may do so a number of times equal to the weapon's Linked rating. Additional hits from the Linked weapon may only be applied against the original target. Each hit deals the weapon’s base damage plus the total uncanceled (success) scored on the check.

 

When I read the section that I have bold and underlined, I read that to mean that an item with the Linked quality could be activated to hit with two advantage even if there are no success.

 

What are your understandings of that rule?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

On 12/20/2015 at 10:55 AM, Absol197 said:

Regarding this exact thing, I have a house-rule I'm considering:

If the attack misses, you can activate Linked to add 1 success to the check, or to add an extra hit on a successful check. You're still limited by your Linked rating, but this helps linked attacks have that feel of "more accurate" without unbalancing it.

Example: you have a weapon with Linked 3, and roll 1 Failure, 4 advantage, and a Triumph. You can spend the 4 advantage for 2 Successes, making it a hit, and the Triumph to activate Linked a third time to add a second hit.

In fact, I'm not a fan of the whole "attack MUST be successful to activate weapon qualities" rule. Sure, for some of them, yeah, but things like Knockdown, I can see narratively how you could knock someone over (say with a shield bash) even if you didn't actually hurry them like you were trying to.

thing is linked is more accurate as most combat checks take place over the course of a few minutes of brawling, whacking or shooting a successful check means one of those attacks made contact. linked, auto fire and dual wielding make it so that multiple attacks make contact

[Tramp Graphics 2,328]

On 12/16/2015 at 9:30 PM, ArcherDOM said:

The description for this item quality reads:

 

Some weapons, like the laser cannons fitted to the X- wing, are designed to fire together at the same target. This increases the possibility of a hit as well as the damage dealt. When firing a linked weapon, on a successful attack, the weapon deals one hit. The wielder may spend (two advantage) to gain an additional hit, and may do so a number of times equal to the weapon's Linked rating. Additional hits from the Linked weapon may only be applied against the original target. Each hit deals the weapon’s base damage plus the total uncanceled (success) scored on the check.

 

When I read the section that I have bold and underlined, I read that to mean that an item with the Linked quality could be activated to hit with two advantage even if there are no success.

 

What are your understandings of that rule?

 

Thanks in advance.

The part you're forgetting is the phrase "on a successful attack".  As the section reads:

Quote

When firing a linked weapon, on a successful attack, the weapon deals one hit. The wielder may spend (two advantage) to gain an additional hit, and may do so a number of times equal to the weapon's Linked rating. Additional hits from the Linked weapon may only be applied against the original target. Each hit deals the weapon’s base damage plus the total uncanceled (success) scored on the check.

In other words, for Linked to apply additional hits to the target, you still need at least one hit to begin with. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Tramp Graphics

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

Talk about topic necromancy!

what answers where you searching for @Stormbourne when you found this?

[Stormbourne 143]

48 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

Talk about topic necromancy!

what answers where you searching for @Stormbourne when you found this?

dual wielding actually but yea it's stated on P. 204 F&D core "Rounds can represent roughly a minute or so in time, although the elapsed time is deliberately not specified."

this is further elaborated latter on with incidental being "minor activities characters can undertake that require extremely little time or effort."

maneuvers being "activities that aren’t complex enough to warrant a skill check, but which still involve time and effort on the part of a character."

actions are left completely unmarked with time but are the most complex task a person can perform in a round as so are likely take up the most time

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

Yeah two weapon combat is super tough in Star Wars, other than Gunslinger in Edge of course, hopefully th Warrior book has something for the pistol/sword swashbuckling lovers out there.

[Daeglan 5,950]

5 hours ago, Richardbuxton said:

Yeah two weapon combat is super tough in Star Wars, other than Gunslinger in Edge of course, hopefully th Warrior book has something for the pistol/sword swashbuckling lovers out there.

paired attachment helps

 

[Richardbuxton 7,319]

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

paired attachment helps

 

Genesys just completely dropped the additional Difficulty increase for two different types of weapons. You still take the lower of your characteristic and skill, but a Daunting Difficulty is no longer your hurdle... then get the Duelist talent and you can use whatever is the normal difficulty for the range you are at.

[FinarinPanjoro 126]

On a related note:

I've house ruled that any multi-hit qualities (auto-fire, linked, twf) require an extra advantage to activate for each Challenge die in the difficulty of the check.

This makes it harder to one shot important nemesis characters but allows minions to be mowed down by these abilities.  This also applies to the PCs so when they Dodge someone autofiring at them it is very important (because it makes it harder to get multiple hits on other targets).

I've also ruled that base two weapon fighting can target different adversaries, but must use the highest difficulty to do so.  Adding the Gunslinger talent (I believe it's Spitfire) that normally allows you to target separate individuals allows you to use the lower difficulty target (so aim at a Stormtrooper minion, spend two advantage to hit the bounty hunter with Adversary two).

This is resulted in much less swingy combats as a result of these weapon qualities, so I like it.

 

[Kilcannon 177]

Question to activate linked, two weapon fighting, or other advantages I know the original attack needs to be successful.  But does the original attack need to do damage?  I know with criticals that is a yes.  But if someone parries and or soaks all damage can the character still use advantage to make a linked attack, two weapon fighting or other quality that isnt a crit?

[Stormbourne 143]

5 hours ago, Kilcannon said:

Question to activate linked, two weapon fighting, or other advantages I know the original attack needs to be successful.  But does the original attack need to do damage?  I know with criticals that is a yes.  But if someone parries and or soaks all damage can the character still use advantage to make a linked attack, two weapon fighting or other quality that isnt a crit?

i would say that you need a success and the advantages nothing more.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

11 hours ago, Kilcannon said:

Question to activate linked, two weapon fighting, or other advantages I know the original attack needs to be successful.  But does the original attack need to do damage?  I know with criticals that is a yes.  But if someone parries and or soaks all damage can the character still use advantage to make a linked attack, two weapon fighting or other quality that isnt a crit?

Unlike critical injuries (which do require you to deal damage), activating weapon qualities such as Linked, Blast, or even an off-hand weapon simply require the original combat check be successful and that you have advantages to spend to trigger them.

So even if you're facing a foe that's able to use Parry to entirely negate the damage from the first hit of your double-bladed lightsaber, as long as you have the 2 advantage required, you can activate the Linked quality and score a second hit.  Which isn't a bad tactic as you're forcing your opponent to burn even more strain to avoid taking damage

[Kilcannon 177]

Thanks was just thinking of ways to add difficulty to combats for the PCs without just making an enemy cause more damage.  Disorient, linked, 2 weapon, etc....and the added making them spend more strain is nice.  

[Stormbourne 143]

7 hours ago, Kilcannon said:

Thanks was just thinking of ways to add difficulty to combats for the PCs without just making an enemy cause more damage.  Disorient, linked, 2 weapon, etc....and the added making them spend more strain is nice.  

if the enemy has a lightsaber give them energy bleed which deals 2 strain on each hit in addition to normal damage