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The Force Awakens [SPOILER WARNING!]

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They do name the system that gets blown up, but it's not one I've heard of before. So presumably it's like Alderaan; reasonably important and populated by "the enemy", but who's loss is not some sort of crippling blow to the Republic.

The fallout from such an act, though, would likely galvanize both the Reublic and the Empire to start preparing for war with each other. As we know the Resistance is covertly funded by the Republic, it would seem likely that we'll start to see more new fighters and capital ships find their way into the films as they proceed on from here.

Also, it would seem strange for Snoke to turn out to be Darth Plagueis, since he was, first and foremost, a Sith. Kylo are the Knights of Ren are very clearly NOT Sith, though they do use the dark side. So while there are similarities in back story, it would seem strange for Snoke to completely throw out all of the Sith traditions that would have been ingrained on him once he's in power among the First Order. Unless it turns out he's some sort of force-ghost-reincarnation who lost his memories but could eventually duplicate the original's work. Which would be lame.

that was the new Senate seat that blew up, hesian system or something a rather...

And it did effectively destroy the government of the new republic

This is according to the "visual dictionary" (according to reddit posts on the subject)

Edited by clontroper5

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Also, it would seem strange for Snoke to turn out to be Darth Plagueis, since he was, first and foremost, a Sith. Kylo are the Knights of Ren are very clearly NOT Sith, though they do use the dark side. So while there are similarities in back story, it would seem strange for Snoke to completely throw out all of the Sith traditions that would have been ingrained on him once he's in power among the First Order. Unless it turns out he's some sort of force-ghost-reincarnation who lost his memories but could eventually duplicate the original's work. Which would be lame.  

Eh not really in my opinion.

If Snoke is Darth Plagarius, he has had his apprentice try to kill him and has spent the entire Clone Wars and the time of the Galactic Empire either hiding or locked away in the Empire's darkest dungeon. That betrayal probably made him decide that the whole "Kill your apprentice" thing the Sith had going wasn't that great an idea after all and decided to try something new.

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Was I the only one that was egregiously aggravated by Rey's force use? It's established she hardly know what a jedi is, but then somehow pulls off a ******* JEDI MIND TRICK. NO ONE WOULD EVER JUST ASSUME THEY CAN DO THAT. And the terms of the trick have to be believable to the individual.....

 

One of my thoughts I find truly marvelous is the idea that Rey is flexing her force powers the way she remembers them in legend. She knows Luke Skywalker from myth, along with presumably the Jedi and Obi-Wan Keobi and all the stories that Han basically confirmed were true.

 

So at the end of her rope but knowing that she has some kind of power (from resisting Kylo)... she does what she remembered from myth, and attempts a mind trick. It failed at first but rather than give up she keeps trying and eventually succeeds. Now she knows she has the power, and is starting to learn how to use it.

 

Kylo Ren, knowing she's gone, knowing she's powerful, says to the trooper "She's beginning to test her powers... the longer we don't find her, the more powerful she becomes". Because she is using myth as a guide.

 

Her lightsaber battle is only going as great as it can for someone with no training... she is only holding her own against a wounded Kylo Ren. But when she calls upon the Light side of the force, perhaps she has help, and finds the strength to defeat Kylo Ren.

 

So TL:DR; I think Rey's "mastery" of the force comes from doing what she heard about from myth and discovering it works.

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This is the same universe where Luke's 5 minutes of Jedi training makes him able to stand his ground against Vader.

First of all, Kylo was pretty badly wounded. Finn, from what I understand from the written material, was well trained in hand to hand. He doesn't last all that long anyway. Rey isn't exactly a novice in hand to hand as evidenced when those two try to jump her on Jakku and take BB-8. It's pretty clear that she has extreme aptitude with the force, so I'm not seeing it as all that much of a stretch given Kylo's state. Again, everyone's favorite movie, Empire, had a similar stretch.

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to hear more about this alternative.

Edited by Truthiness

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to heard more about this alternative.

 

Where are you getting this Luke's daughter thing from?

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to heard more about this alternative.

 

Well from the novel and movie

 

1. If it was Luke's daughter, there's little reason for him not to have taken her with him on his search or left her in the care of someone like Leia. 

 

2. None of Luke's friends mention a daughter as a reason for him leaving. It all had to do with the Jedi Temple Massacre, Kylo, and Snoke's betrayal.

 

3. Leia, Han, Chewie, and other don't know who Rey is.

4. Assuming the people who had the map were Rey's guardians, it looks like they were entrusted with a piece of the map in order to find Luke if they needed too as opposed to Luke was ever planning to come back.

 

5. Also there's zero evidence that Luke ever checked back on Rey. In fact, it looks like no one ever checked back on her.

6. The novel makes it clear that Rey is really powerful with the force. Kylo Ren seems to be around Vader level power, but Rey untrained is more powerful than Kylo Ren. Arguably she's likely more powerful than Luke as well.

7. Somehow both Kylo Ren and Snoke have an idea of who she could be, and based on how powerful Rey turns out to be it's confirmed for Kylo Ren that it's her. Neither ever mention that she is the daughter of Skywalker, but both of them really want to capture Rey alive.

8. Some kind of event that Leia and Han aren't aware of seem to have cause the whole massacre at the Jedi Temple. I'm reading between the lines a bit, but by the timeline of the novel Rey's abandonment on Jakku happened around the time of the Jedi Temple Massacre and Luke's exile. Up until that point Snoke and Luke were friends and collaborators, then all hell broke loose for some reason... very likely that reason was Rey.

9. Luke doesn't appear to be happy at all in the movie and particularly in the novel when Rey comes to see him.

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to heard more about this alternative.

 

Well from the novel and movie

 

1. If it was Luke's daughter, there's little reason for him not to have taken her with him on his search or left her in the care of someone like Leia. 

 

2. None of Luke's friends mention a daughter as a reason for him leaving. It all had to do with the Jedi Temple Massacre, Kylo, and Snoke's betrayal.

 

3. Leia, Han, Chewie, and other don't know who Rey is.

4. Assuming the people who had the map were Rey's guardians, it looks like they were entrusted with a piece of the map in order to find Luke if they needed too as opposed to Luke was ever planning to come back.

 

5. Also there's zero evidence that Luke ever checked back on Rey. In fact, it looks like no one ever checked back on her.

6. The novel makes it clear that Rey is really powerful with the force. Kylo Ren seems to be around Vader level power, but Rey untrained is more powerful than Kylo Ren. Arguably she's likely more powerful than Luke as well.

7. Somehow both Kylo Ren and Snoke have an idea of who she could be, and based on how powerful Rey turns out to be it's confirmed for Kylo Ren that it's her. Neither ever mention that she is the daughter of Skywalker, but both of them really want to capture Rey alive.

8. Some kind of event that Leia and Han aren't aware of seem to have cause the whole massacre at the Jedi Temple. I'm reading between the lines a bit, but by the timeline of the novel Rey's abandonment on Jakku happened around the time of the Jedi Temple Massacre and Luke's exile. Up until that point Snoke and Luke were friends and collaborators, then all hell broke loose for some reason... very likely that reason was Rey.

9. Luke doesn't appear to be happy at all in the movie and particularly in the novel when Rey comes to see him.

 

 

Thank you! I'll have to pick up the novelization.

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to heard more about this alternative.

 

Where are you getting this Luke's daughter thing from?

There seemed to be some recognition of Rey from everyone from in Solo clan. Han seemed to have glimmers of recognition, as did Leia, and Kylo very clearly had a good idea who she was. If she was a Solo, I would have expected that to come out. Luke also appeared to know who she was in that last scene. My working theory was he abandoned her on Jakku to keep her safe after the massacre at the Temple. Now I need to dig into this novelization...

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I was thinking last night about the title of the film "The Force Awakens."  There is also a statement made by Snoke, "There has been an awakening." 

 

So, how are Jedi and Sith created?  (I'm going to go ahead and assume that they don't catch a mitachlorian flu or something.)  It's clear that it can run in families, but not necessarily so.  In the past, Jedi were recruited very young, and Yoda says that Luke is too old to begin training.  But, what if the Force just manifests itself strongly when the need arises: i.e. a prophecy about bringing balance to the Force, etc. 

 

So what if the Force, randomly awakens in random people across the galaxy?  What if the last Jedi and the last Sith both felt the force awakening in two different young people.  What if one of them was a Stormtooper, and the other was a girl sold/abandoned into abject poverty by her family?  That would be a pretty good story. 

 

I was always confused by Vader and the chosen one/prophecy stuff.  He was supposed to bring balance.  So, he murders most of the Jedi, leaving only Ben, Yoda, Luke and Lea, and a handful of others I suppose.  Then, he murders the Emperor, and dies, essentially leaving just Luke, and no Sith.  Balance? 

 

On Rey:  I hope she's not related to anyone.  I hope she's just a random, desert-rat, scavenger, kid who got struck by the Force lightning bolt and is here to kick ass and chew gum.  She's Perseus or Hercules on a mission from the Force. 

 

I hope that Luke's reluctance to see her is due to his regret about failing Ben Solo, his fear of repeating that mistake with Rey, and the fact that her arrival means his hiatus is over and it's about to get force-forcey real up in here.  If he is aware that he is repeating the Ben Kenobi arc, waiting as a hermit until his student arrives, so he can teach her and then sacrifice himself, etc.  Well, I'm not sure I'd be happy to see her either. 

Edited by robertleegrant

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Thank you! I'll have to pick up the novelization.

 

No problem.

But yeah, based on the novel and the film it looks like the following happened.

Darth Plagarius survived Palpatine's assassination attempt and stayed hidden till after the fall of the Empire. Palpatine could have simply lied that he had killed him and instead kept him prisoner or perhaps Plagarius tricked Palpatine and went into hiding. Either way Plagarius stayed hidden till the Empire fell.

Eventually Plagarius took the guise of "Snoke" and met up with Luke, probably portraying himself as a Jedi whom had been in hiding or a prisoner of Palpatine. The two of them then went on to found the Jedi Academy, and things were going great. However, without Luke realizing it Plagarius started corrupting some of the students including Ben Solo and continued his experiments.

Probably Plagarius' experiments started off as something Luke was aware of, but as they became more extreme Luke objected more and more until finally he had enough. The experiment that finally broke things was Rey, either her outright creation through the force or something that was done to her. Regardless, Luke was terrified enough that he had Rey abandoned on Jakku away from Plagarius. In retaliation, the student's loyal to Plagarius became the Knights of Ren and slaughtered the rest of the Academy.

Plagarius and the Knights of Ren disappeared into the various Imperial Factions and took over or outright founded the First Order. Luke disappeared to find the first Jedi Temple to do some soul searching and figure out what to do next. 

As for the nature of Plagarius' experiment on Rey, my bet is that she is Anakin 2.0. If Plagarius used the force to create Anakin as was alluded in Revenge of the Sith, she is just his latest attempt at the same experiment. However, the Expanded Universe was filled with Dark Side experiments that could explain Rey's power and scare Luke. The force siphoning power from Knights of the Old Republic II comes to mind.

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Ok, saw it again.  Even better the second time, I knew what details to look out for.

 

Fun anecdote - my brother-in-law is named Ben.  My in-laws were all joking (BEFORE the movie) about how he's named after Kenobi.  I had to sit there and keep a straight face the whole time.  Big laugh after the movie.  He's promised not to turn to the dark side but let's just say I won't be hanging out above any bottomless pits with him.

 

 

Watching his dogfighting on the forest planet dropped my jaw.


I'm going to agree with you like 50%, if that's OK.

So I desperately wanted Poe to be super BA. I'm a snubjock fanboy big time (Wedge, Tycho, Horn, Fel, etc) but his X Wing looks a little off. Off the hook.

So prior to the movie I just needed him to be awesome. So I have mixed feelings
It's not just that he's a great pilot, it's that he's an impossibly great pilot. I kinda wish they'd have toned it down a bit.

Then again, maybe I'm being too harsh. I'm sure they went so overboard so that more casual fans could quite easily see how awesome he is. I'll have to keep thinking about it I guess.

 

 

Poe is fantastic, the snubjock we all wanted.  Except in order to accept that, we have to give up all the fantastic ones we had before.  I'm annoyed and elated.  Annoylated.

 

 

I got the impression that Starkiller firing was the breakout movement for the First Order. Up until then they were quietly constructing their weapons and a new fleet to take on the Republic, and Starkiller Base was their first-strike weapon to basically win a short war for them (but with plenty of war material on hand for occupation afterward).

 

That first blast wiped out the new capital and planets within that system... likely including fleet bases for what remained of the Republic's (reduced) military. I'd imagine this has severely disrupted the Republic's ability to respond to the very prepared First Order, and it will take some time for them to organize to fight back.... if they do at all. It could be that what's left of the Republic military gathers around the Resistance, which IS prepared to take on the First Order, but lacks war material.

 

But with Starkiller wiped out the First Order lost their trump card superweapon and now has to rely on military assaults with conventional gear. So like Empire, we could see the First Order striking back with a heavy military assault to try wiping out the resistance before more systems can support them. Hopefully Leia wants to avoid a repeat of history and abandoned D'Quar before the First Order comes looking for them, and scatters her assets to keep the First Order guessing.

 

 

 

 

Also, I feel like adding something...

 

In the Legends continuity, by this time (34 years after ANH), the galaxy was still reeling from the assault of the Yuuzan Vong. Jacen Solo was beginning his slide to the dark side, and it is ten years before the second galactic civil war. The Imperial remnant is basically toothless at this time. Chewbacca, Admiral Ackbar, and others have already passed on.

 

I dunno about you, but I don't feel bad at all trading all of that for what we have now.

 

Trading that?  Sure!  But the inbetween stuff?  Dunno...

 

 

Saying Rey is an offspring of any of the three characters is problematic. Leia/Han would have recognized her if they had a daughter (though Han may have forgotten, Leia wouldn't have). If you think it's Luke, then the immediate question is "who was Mom?" because immaculate force conception would work only on, well, a woman.

 

But the above kind of flies in the face of destiny trying really hard to get Rey to accept Anakin's lightsaber. For that kind of setup one would figure that she's part of the Skywalker legacy... or is she? One theme of this trilogy could be that greatness is not passed on by blood. Kylo is hellbent on assuming the mantle of his grandfather, but our protagonists are standing in his way.

 

 

 

 

it could be Mara Jade.  in the scene where Rey finds Luke, there appears to be a grave marker that Luke is standing next to.  could it be of his deceased wife?  If Mara (a powerful Force user) was indeed Rey's mother, this could explain Rey's natural strength in the Force and why she was able to resist Ren's interrogation with no training.   this is, of course, just theory and speculation.

 

Mara is one again canon because Disney has reprinted the Thrawn trilogy with the Disney logo on the backs of the books.  I am fearful of my theory because that would mean Mara is dead, but is established to be a character in the movies.

 

 

Working on a bunch of theories about this.  Sadly I think the most likely thing is Kylo killed Mara.

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Poe is fantastic, the snubjock we all wanted.  Except in order to accept that, we have to give up all the fantastic ones we had before.  I'm annoyed and elated.  Annoylated.

goodSnubMeme.jpg

I've decided that I do like him. Just enough for him to make the top 5, without being better than fifth.

I'm thinking that we probably won't actually lose the other important snubjocks. Frankly there is no reason to.

So I made the meme, lol.

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Poe is fantastic, the snubjock we all wanted.  Except in order to accept that, we have to give up all the fantastic ones we had before.  I'm annoyed and elated.  Annoylated.

goodSnubMeme.jpg

I've decided that I do like him. Just enough for him to make the top 5, without being better than fifth.

I'm thinking that we probably won't actually lose the other important snubjocks. Frankly there is no reason to.

So I made the meme, lol.

 

Yeeeaaaaah I would leave out the terrible mary sue author self insert.

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to heard more about this alternative.

 

Well from the novel and movie

 

1. If it was Luke's daughter, there's little reason for him not to have taken her with him on his search or left her in the care of someone like Leia. 

 

2. None of Luke's friends mention a daughter as a reason for him leaving. It all had to do with the Jedi Temple Massacre, Kylo, and Snoke's betrayal.

 

3. Leia, Han, Chewie, and other don't know who Rey is.

4. Assuming the people who had the map were Rey's guardians, it looks like they were entrusted with a piece of the map in order to find Luke if they needed too as opposed to Luke was ever planning to come back.

 

5. Also there's zero evidence that Luke ever checked back on Rey. In fact, it looks like no one ever checked back on her.

6. The novel makes it clear that Rey is really powerful with the force. Kylo Ren seems to be around Vader level power, but Rey untrained is more powerful than Kylo Ren. Arguably she's likely more powerful than Luke as well.

7. Somehow both Kylo Ren and Snoke have an idea of who she could be, and based on how powerful Rey turns out to be it's confirmed for Kylo Ren that it's her. Neither ever mention that she is the daughter of Skywalker, but both of them really want to capture Rey alive.

8. Some kind of event that Leia and Han aren't aware of seem to have cause the whole massacre at the Jedi Temple. I'm reading between the lines a bit, but by the timeline of the novel Rey's abandonment on Jakku happened around the time of the Jedi Temple Massacre and Luke's exile. Up until that point Snoke and Luke were friends and collaborators, then all hell broke loose for some reason... very likely that reason was Rey.

9. Luke doesn't appear to be happy at all in the movie and particularly in the novel when Rey comes to see him.

 

 

Thank you! I'll have to pick up the novelization.

 

 

Just to be clear, this is from the novel Aftermath?  It's rated quite "meh" according to Amazon.  I'm wondering if that's just nerdrage, fanboyism, or just writing.

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to heard more about this alternative.

 

Well from the novel and movie

 

1. If it was Luke's daughter, there's little reason for him not to have taken her with him on his search or left her in the care of someone like Leia. 

 

2. None of Luke's friends mention a daughter as a reason for him leaving. It all had to do with the Jedi Temple Massacre, Kylo, and Snoke's betrayal.

 

3. Leia, Han, Chewie, and other don't know who Rey is.

4. Assuming the people who had the map were Rey's guardians, it looks like they were entrusted with a piece of the map in order to find Luke if they needed too as opposed to Luke was ever planning to come back.

 

5. Also there's zero evidence that Luke ever checked back on Rey. In fact, it looks like no one ever checked back on her.

6. The novel makes it clear that Rey is really powerful with the force. Kylo Ren seems to be around Vader level power, but Rey untrained is more powerful than Kylo Ren. Arguably she's likely more powerful than Luke as well.

7. Somehow both Kylo Ren and Snoke have an idea of who she could be, and based on how powerful Rey turns out to be it's confirmed for Kylo Ren that it's her. Neither ever mention that she is the daughter of Skywalker, but both of them really want to capture Rey alive.

8. Some kind of event that Leia and Han aren't aware of seem to have cause the whole massacre at the Jedi Temple. I'm reading between the lines a bit, but by the timeline of the novel Rey's abandonment on Jakku happened around the time of the Jedi Temple Massacre and Luke's exile. Up until that point Snoke and Luke were friends and collaborators, then all hell broke loose for some reason... very likely that reason was Rey.

9. Luke doesn't appear to be happy at all in the movie and particularly in the novel when Rey comes to see him.

 

 

Thank you! I'll have to pick up the novelization.

 

 

Just to be clear, this is from the novel Aftermath?  It's rated quite "meh" according to Amazon.  I'm wondering if that's just nerdrage, fanboyism, or just writing.

 

It's the actual novelization of The Force Awakens. It's currently available in ebook and audio book format. 

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That and I'd say the novel implies that Rey is the result of somekind of Dark Side experiment and she isn't Luke's daughter. Luke somehow got a hold of her and decided to abandon her on Jakku rather than let Snoke get her or kill her himself.

Can you go more into this? Because I'm pretty convinced by the movie that she's Luke's daughter. I'd love to heard more about this alternative.

 

Well from the novel and movie

 

1. If it was Luke's daughter, there's little reason for him not to have taken her with him on his search or left her in the care of someone like Leia. 

 

2. None of Luke's friends mention a daughter as a reason for him leaving. It all had to do with the Jedi Temple Massacre, Kylo, and Snoke's betrayal.

 

3. Leia, Han, Chewie, and other don't know who Rey is.

4. Assuming the people who had the map were Rey's guardians, it looks like they were entrusted with a piece of the map in order to find Luke if they needed too as opposed to Luke was ever planning to come back.

 

5. Also there's zero evidence that Luke ever checked back on Rey. In fact, it looks like no one ever checked back on her.

6. The novel makes it clear that Rey is really powerful with the force. Kylo Ren seems to be around Vader level power, but Rey untrained is more powerful than Kylo Ren. Arguably she's likely more powerful than Luke as well.

7. Somehow both Kylo Ren and Snoke have an idea of who she could be, and based on how powerful Rey turns out to be it's confirmed for Kylo Ren that it's her. Neither ever mention that she is the daughter of Skywalker, but both of them really want to capture Rey alive.

8. Some kind of event that Leia and Han aren't aware of seem to have cause the whole massacre at the Jedi Temple. I'm reading between the lines a bit, but by the timeline of the novel Rey's abandonment on Jakku happened around the time of the Jedi Temple Massacre and Luke's exile. Up until that point Snoke and Luke were friends and collaborators, then all hell broke loose for some reason... very likely that reason was Rey.

9. Luke doesn't appear to be happy at all in the movie and particularly in the novel when Rey comes to see him.

 

Most of this isnt really based on the movies, so what is there in the novels to back that up?

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I think Rey is the offspring of Luke Skywalker .. shes very strong. Only together she can be turned to the dark side. what do you think about that?

edit: yees, surely this was discussed before in this topic but I didnt read all posts

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