Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
DiabloAzul

The Force Awakens [SPOILER WARNING!]

Recommended Posts

Plagueis' race in canon is undefined. the Darth Plagueis novel was thrown out with the rest of the Legends continuity. But for Snoke to be Plagueis, he would have to have survived Palpatine's account of killing him. Possible for a being that created life out of only the force?

 

Saying Rey is an offspring of any of the three characters is problematic. Leia/Han would have recognized her if they had a daughter (though Han may have forgotten, Leia wouldn't have). If you think it's Luke, then the immediate question is "who was Mom?" because immaculate force conception would work only on, well, a woman.

 

It could entirely be that all three of our main leads are not related to the original protagonists. Boyega's said in interviews that the role of Finn wasn't strictly for a black character, so Finn doesn't have to be related to Lando or anyone we know. They may run with that idea for 8 though, if it hasn't been written yet?

 

But the above kind of flies in the face of destiny trying really hard to get Rey to accept Anakin's lightsaber. For that kind of setup one would figure that she's part of the Skywalker legacy... or is she? One theme of this trilogy could be that greatness is not passed on by blood. Kylo is hellbent on assuming the mantle of his grandfather, but our protagonists are standing in his way.

 

 

Regarding pacing I think there were a few places that the movie felt too long. The mental struggle between Rey and Kylo in the toruture chamber I think went on for at least half a minute too long. There was another moment I forget that was similar... the want to check the watch to see if the scene was going on too long. They could have used that padding in other places.

 

And the sequence on Han Solo's new freighter could have been trimmed down. They could have placed the Falcon undergoing repairs on Jakku when Finn and Rey steal the ship, or had Han and Chewie pop up during the struggle from their own attempt to steal the ship back. Perhaps it worked better to absolutely have Han and Chewie board the falcon after Finn and Rey used it for a while, but the freighter sequence gave us nothing useful beyond that scene. It shows us Han being in trouble with his debtors, but the monster chase scene wasn't necessary for his character except perhaps to have Rey save Finn.

 

I expect once the trillogy is complete Episode 7 is going to be a satisfactory act one of a three-act long story. The excitement will happen in the further two installments, but the first act sets up the post-Endor world and introduces the new people to us. I just hope that Harrison Ford's exit of the show gives Han the gravitas that was maybe missed had Han died in RoTJ. But I think Leia confronting Kylo, not just for turning to the dark side but also murdering his father, is going to be worth Han leaving us and a major point for Kylo's story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand Kylo's Shuttle. I don't. What the hell is up with those wings? The Troop Carriers are more or less the same ship without the wings. They are clearly an aesthetic addition. Maybe to give him something to hissy-fit-chop?

Shield amplifiers and high powered sensors according to the visual dictionary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed in the poster there are two star destroyers but in the film we only see one.

They did refer to the New republic fleet being lost but didnt say how. I don't think that there will be much room for Armada type action in the next film. of course we do have a film about pilots next so plenty of space action to look forward to there.

The lightsabre hissy fit made me think of what must happen to the inside of your ship when you take the Darth Vader crew card!

Edited by Corver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh, with all the toys released I wasn't sure if Kylo's shuttle was white or black. I do like the Upsilon in white, if I ever return to X-Wing and they have one I'll be repainting it for that.

 

I thought I saw another Resurgence orbiting Starkiller base. Finalizer couldn't have been destroyed, Vader's helmet is too precious to not leave it on Starkiller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heh, with all the toys released I wasn't sure if Kylo's shuttle was white or black. I do like the Upsilon in white, if I ever return to X-Wing and they have one I'll be repainting it for that.

 

I thought I saw another Resurgence orbiting Starkiller base. Finalizer couldn't have been destroyed, Vader's helmet is too precious to not leave it on Starkiller.

Yup, plenty more FO ships... they have shipyards building these 3000 meter Resurgence Class SDs.

Edited by DWRR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed in the poster there are two star destroyers but in the film we only see one.

They did refer to the New republic fleet being lost but didnt say how. I don't think that there will be much room for Armada type action in the next film. of course we do have a film about pilots next so plenty of space action to look forward to there.

The lightsabre hissy fit made me think of what must happen to the inside of your ship when you take the Darth Vader crew card!

 

The next film seems more focused on the team that stole the plans for the Death Star then anything. I'm hoping we get to see the space battle that was occurring at the same but we'll see.

 

As for the New Republic fleet being lost I can see it being devastated maybe but not completely destroyed. I seriously doubt the NR had its entire navy concentrated in one location. Yeah the rebels did it at Endor but that was because the attack was all or nothing they either won there or lost the war.

 

Also without knowing how long passes between episode VI and episode VII we don't know how long the Resistance has to build its fleet or the New Republic to rebuild theirs. And it seems like warship construction times in Star Wars are a lot faster then current warship building times IRL.

Edited by RogueCorona

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only seen the movie once so far, but I don't remember hearing anything about the Republic Fleet being destroyed.  Not available perhaps but not annihilated.  I heard that they would need the Republic Fleet to take out Starkiller base conventionally, and C3PO lamenting that they were all "Lost without the fleet." but not anyone saying the fleet was destroyed. 

 

The System that was almost completely whipped out was the one that Maz has her cantina in, and happened to be a Republic system (I admit at first, I though they had blown up Coruscant).  From what I gathered, the populated planets in the system were destroyed as a warning and as a way to keep support for the Resistance from being mustered from its closest (physically) ally.

 

In any case, after the movie I started looking up what information I could about what was going on.  From what I gathered, the Resistance is a gorilla force inside the Territories give to the Imperial Remnant when they Republic force the remaining Imperials into the Treaty, they are not officially supported by the Republic and are funded wholly by General Leia.  To that effect, Republic officially labels the Resistance and Leia as warmongers, and do not condone her actions.  Wich is why we see no Republic Capital ships in the movie, and why we only hear mentions of the fleet.

 

From what I gathered in the movie as well, it feels like the First Order is an extremist cell within the Empire, an may not be the only Imperial Faction within the Empires territories.  What it sounds like is the Imperial Remnant was forced into a Potsdam Conference situation like Germany was at the End of World War II.  Its a crude analogy but from what I understand its the most apt. They got territory but were left under heavy military and industrial restrictions among others.

 

Anyway that's just what I've got I could be completely wrong however.

Edited by darkfortunex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only seen the movie once so far, but I don't remember hearing anything about the Republic Fleet being destroyed.  Not available perhaps but not annihilated.  I heard that they would need the Republic Fleet to take out Starkiller base conventionally, and C3PO lamenting that they were all "Lost without the fleet." but not anyone saying the fleet was destroyed. 

 

The System the was almost completely whipped out was the one that Maz has her cantina in, and happened to be a Republic system (I admit at first, I though they had blown up Coruscant).  From what I gathered, the populated planets in the system were destroyed as a warning and as a way to keep support for the Resistance from being mustered from its closest (physically) ally.

 

In any case, after the movie I started looking up what information I could about what was going on.  From what I gathered, the Resistance is a gorilla force inside the Territories give to the Imperial Remnant when they Republic force the remaining Imperials into the Treaty, they are not officially supported by the Republic and are funded wholly by General Leia.  To that effect, Republic officially labels the Resistance and Leia as warmongers, and do not condone her actions.  Wich is why we see no Republic Capital ships in the movie, and why we only hear mentions of the fleet.

 

From what I gathered in the movie as well, it feels like the First Order is an extremist cell within the Empire, an may not be the only Imperial Faction within the Empires territories.  What it sounds like if the Imperial Remnant was forced into a Potsdam Conference situation like Germany was at the End of World War II.  Its a crude analogy but from what I understand its the most apt. They got territory but were left under heavy military and industrial restrictions among others.

 

Anyway that's just what I've got I could be completely wrong however.

In the novel aftermath it explains that mon motha basicly gutted the republic navy

She didnt want the republic to depend on military might. This lead to a cease fire between the republic and empire left overs.

Anyways the republic never really built up a navy fleet. Instead they mothballed and demilitarized the fleet. Each system got a small fleet to guard against pirates and such.

While the small and main republic fleet was destroyed in the starkiller attack.

But due to the cease fire, some memeber of the old rebellion head into empire space and form a resistance group to the 1st order.

Thus no republic or resistance navy to aid in the fight. Or give us new ships

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

since some people say Armada is the steepchild*, the new movie followed suit: had something for x-wing (space battle with fighters), ia (ground battles), but nothing for Armada :)

The film itself, meh. Cant believe they pulled the same thing again, big scary station with shields to disable first, from a commando, only Tie fighters to protect it, inadequate aa flak, fighters penetrating into core of station finishing it, boom 30 seconds or so before firing, with Sith-type bad guy able to flee.

Combine it with a stormtrooper able to handle a lightsaber, even against Kylo for a while (He is not force sensitive, is he?). Letting Han die is ok, even if sad, but what an ignominous grave he has.

Yes, some laughs, tears, good to see Ackbar (they age well, apparently), at least credits said so. Also Nunb as per credits, not really aged either. I liked it, also the general Rebel command center feel. Probably because nothing really changed there :)

But what the hell does the following mean: The New Republic supports the Resistance? I didnt read new novels, is the FO fighting the New Republic officially? It would have been super nice to provide any context. ANY.

Rey surely is fine, but how one-dimensional they portray Leia and Han and their son is, I dont know, fit for a young, dare I say it, D. audience?

*Its not, of course, its a great game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've only seen the movie once so far, but I don't remember hearing anything about the Republic Fleet being destroyed.  Not available perhaps but not annihilated.  I heard that they would need the Republic Fleet to take out Starkiller base conventionally, and C3PO lamenting that they were all "Lost without the fleet." but not anyone saying the fleet was destroyed. 

 

The System the was almost completely whipped out was the one that Maz has her cantina in, and happened to be a Republic system (I admit at first, I though they had blown up Coruscant).  From what I gathered, the populated planets in the system were destroyed as a warning and as a way to keep support for the Resistance from being mustered from its closest (physically) ally.

 

In any case, after the movie I started looking up what information I could about what was going on.  From what I gathered, the Resistance is a gorilla force inside the Territories give to the Imperial Remnant when they Republic force the remaining Imperials into the Treaty, they are not officially supported by the Republic and are funded wholly by General Leia.  To that effect, Republic officially labels the Resistance and Leia as warmongers, and do not condone her actions.  Wich is why we see no Republic Capital ships in the movie, and why we only hear mentions of the fleet.

 

From what I gathered in the movie as well, it feels like the First Order is an extremist cell within the Empire, an may not be the only Imperial Faction within the Empires territories.  What it sounds like if the Imperial Remnant was forced into a Potsdam Conference situation like Germany was at the End of World War II.  Its a crude analogy but from what I understand its the most apt. They got territory but were left under heavy military and industrial restrictions among others.

 

Anyway that's just what I've got I could be completely wrong however.

In the novel aftermath it explains that mon motha basicly gutted the republic navy

She didnt want the republic to depend on military might. This lead to a cease fire between the republic and empire left overs.

Anyways the republic never really built up a navy fleet. Instead they mothballed and demilitarized the fleet. Each system got a small fleet to guard against pirates and such.

While the small and main republic fleet was destroyed in the starkiller attack.

But due to the cease fire, some memeber of the old rebellion head into empire space and form a resistance group to the 1st order.

Thus no republic or resistance navy to aid in the fight. Or give us new ships

thx!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the Before the Awakening Kids book has enough new ships for an Armada wave along with making one of the classic Legends capship classes canon while the actual movie has almost no new capship models?

 

In fairness, this was similar to the first movie. If you look at the previous original trilogy arc, you had:

 

A New Hope - mostly starfighter battles, and an Imperial shuttle. Virtually no capital ship action other than the star destroyer capturing a CR90 to kick everything off.

 

Empire Strikes Back - the fleet battles here are brief and decisive (basically, Empire crushing Hoth and rebels escaping into space), not populated with tons of new warships, but we start to get glimpses of the fleet (the Neb B at the end, etc)

 

Return of the Jedi - massive fleet battle, biggest in the entire trilogy.

 

If this new trilogy is a rhyme, but not an exact repetition of the original, one would expect the third movie to be the massive Armada payoff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too enjoyed watching Kylo being tempted by the light. Different change of pace.

But he still reminds me of a whiney bitchy Clones Anakin. He's juvenile. Not a bad guy. Maybe he didn't get enough hugs as a kid or something and wants to prove he's a bad man.

I also didn't like the blaster fire force crap. Trained Jedi couldn't do it...to me it feels like JJ wanted and got something. And that didn't feel in place in the universe as is.

I DID love the return to slow lightsaber fighting. Non trained combat looks like non trained combat.

To me, this was on par, but maybe just a hair less good than ANH and even RotS. Yeah, I said it. It wasn't better than the best prequel IMO.

"I hate you!" ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think time was the killer this time. They didn't do a very good job of establishing that the Republic was a threat to the First Order, thus the need to eliminate the Republic government before they could move forward with their plans. Considering that is my biggest gripe with the plot... I can live with that.

I think that destroying the New Republic so easily was supposed to be allegory. "Take that EU!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still liked the movie for what it was...a movie about Star Wars...but I gotta get some stuff off the chest.

 

 

What if Rey is the REAL being the prophecy foretold bringing Balance to the Force?

 

Awesome pilot...check!

 

Really good at fixing things (mechanically)...check!

 

Wicked super fast learner of the Force...oh wait, noone taught her, she just 'figures it all out' in a life and death fight with a Dark Jedi.

 

 

More of the same:   

 

Rey is obviously attracted to FN...proven no-gos for Jedi.  

 

OMG third Deathstar thingy!!!  Hello!!!!   Empire is triangle pizza slice design.  Balls don't work breh!  Kill alll the engineers.  Make Triangle weapons.

 

Can we get the hell away from the old and make some new shite plz?  Thnks.

 

 

(But still, I rather have less Star Wars, than NO Star Wars)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got the impression that Starkiller firing was the breakout movement for the First Order. Up until then they were quietly constructing their weapons and a new fleet to take on the Republic, and Starkiller Base was their first-strike weapon to basically win a short war for them (but with plenty of war material on hand for occupation afterward).

 

That first blast wiped out the new capital and planets within that system... likely including fleet bases for what remained of the Republic's (reduced) military. I'd imagine this has severely disrupted the Republic's ability to respond to the very prepared First Order, and it will take some time for them to organize to fight back.... if they do at all. It could be that what's left of the Republic military gathers around the Resistance, which IS prepared to take on the First Order, but lacks war material.

 

But with Starkiller wiped out the First Order lost their trump card superweapon and now has to rely on military assaults with conventional gear. So like Empire, we could see the First Order striking back with a heavy military assault to try wiping out the resistance before more systems can support them. Hopefully Leia wants to avoid a repeat of history and abandoned D'Quar before the First Order comes looking for them, and scatters her assets to keep the First Order guessing.

 

 

 

 

Also, I feel like adding something...

 

In the Legends continuity, by this time (34 years after ANH), the galaxy was still reeling from the assault of the Yuuzan Vong. Jacen Solo was beginning his slide to the dark side, and it is ten years before the second galactic civil war. The Imperial remnant is basically toothless at this time. Chewbacca, Admiral Ackbar, and others have already passed on.

 

I dunno about you, but I don't feel bad at all trading all of that for what we have now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still liked the movie for what it was...a movie about Star Wars...but I gotta get some stuff off the chest.

 

 

What if Rey is the REAL being the prophecy foretold bringing Balance to the Force?

 

Awesome pilot...check!

 

Really good at fixing things (mechanically)...check!

 

Wicked super fast learner of the Force...oh wait, noone taught her, she just 'figures it all out' in a life and death fight with a Dark Jedi.

 

 

More of the same:   

 

Rey is obviously attracted to FN...proven no-gos for Jedi.  

 

OMG third Deathstar thingy!!!  Hello!!!!   Empire is triangle pizza slice design.  Balls don't work breh!  Kill alll the engineers.  Make Triangle weapons.

 

Can we get the hell away from the old and make some new shite plz?  Thnks.

 

 

(But still, I rather have less Star Wars, than NO Star Wars)

 

You forgot the fact that the Empire still has an intense disdain for even basic failsafes (railings on platforms or stairs, anyone?), much less important things (how about a secondary heat vent in the event of failure of the first for your planet destroying weapon that literally siphons the energy of a sun).

 

I think it's worse: the First Order kept all the engineers, they just have them being managed by a cost-cutting boss straight out of Dilbert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even though Poe sat out most of it? They implied Poe is a major character, but his absence from the trailers actually did translate to absence from the movie, too. We spend most of the film thinking he's dead with the focus being on Rey and Finn (who seem like more interesting characters, IMO), and then he shows up out of the blue with his X-Wing. I hope he gets a bigger role in the next film, only so he can actually feature like a main character!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He only sat out Jakku and was a major force to be reckoned with throughout. Watching his dogfighting on the forest planet dropped my jaw. He also had one of my favorite lines of the movie ("So do you talk first? Do I talk first? How does this work?"). The character and the actor are just so full of energy that it can't help but pull attention. If he was on screen too much more, it would have been at the expense of someone else. We know all we need to know from watching his dogfighting: he's the best ******* pilot out there. Finn and Rey had more complex backgrounds, so they needed the exposition to round them out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even though Poe sat out most of it? They implied Poe is a major character, but his absence from the trailers actually did translate to absence from the movie, too. We spend most of the film thinking he's dead with the focus being on Rey and Finn (who seem like more interesting characters, IMO), and then he shows up out of the blue with his X-Wing. I hope he gets a bigger role in the next film, only so he can actually feature like a main character!

Well part of that was they really went hard on the miss information and fake outs.

 

As an audience, going into the movie, and the first part of the film, we were being led to believe

- Finn was going to be a Force user

- Kylo Ren was possibly Luke

- Rey was Han and Leia's daughter

- Max Von Sydow would have more than 5ish minutes of dialogue

- Poe was going to be a major character

- Captain Phasma was also going to be a major character

- Luke would have a bigger role in the film

- Han Solo's role would be more of a short cameo as opposed to being one of the major characters

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching his dogfighting on the forest planet dropped my jaw.

I'm going to agree with you like 50%, if that's OK.

So I desperately wanted Poe to be super BA. I'm a snubjock fanboy big time (Wedge, Tycho, Horn, Fel, etc) but his X Wing looks a little off. Off the hook.

So prior to the movie I just needed him to be awesome. So I have mixed feelings

It's not just that he's a great pilot, it's that he's an impossibly great pilot. I kinda wish they'd have toned it down a bit.

Then again, maybe I'm being too harsh. I'm sure they went so overboard so that more casual fans could quite easily see how awesome he is. I'll have to keep thinking about it I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching his dogfighting on the forest planet dropped my jaw.

I'm going to agree with you like 50%, if that's OK.

So I desperately wanted Poe to be super BA. I'm a snubjock fanboy big time (Wedge, Tycho, Horn, Fel, etc) but his X Wing looks a little off. Off the hook.

So prior to the movie I just needed him to be awesome. So I have mixed feelings

It's not just that he's a great pilot, it's that he's an impossibly great pilot. I kinda wish they'd have toned it down a bit.

Then again, maybe I'm being too harsh. I'm sure they went so overboard so that more casual fans could quite easily see how awesome he is. I'll have to keep thinking about it I guess.

Cant agree more. They needed to hook people with at least one non-force sensitive superhero. I like space fights, dogfighting, but this to me looked overdone. Is this new model more manouverable, maybe, Still.

On the other hand, its so many years after RotJ, and we have a Star destroyer, Xs and TieFs. Thats it. Yes, the X is the most popular model, fans like it best. Yes, they apparently decommissioned most of the military, according to books. But its depressing to again start at Episode IV level. It cant be money, they still can afford superweapons on planet scale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...