POST NO SPOILERS in subjects - discuss TFA in here.

[Conandoodle 1,817]

I don't think it needs saying but we have some Star Wars fans on these here forums. I'm no assumeriser but I think many of us handsome and beautiful forumers are going to see it. Myself, I'll be in the cinema in 6.5 hours with my buds, a cheeky beer and my good 'Sunday best' Star Wars t-shirt.

So, to avoid posting spoilers, I propose that we keep ALL TFA conversation in here. I'd hate for someone to post a spoiler for a triple F (Friendly Forum Fella) to haphazardly stumble upon.

Note: THERE WILL BE SPOILERS IN HERE! Turn away, leave, stop reading if you don't want to see anything.

My friends .. Next time I post in 9 or so hours. I'll be the guy grinning.

[Conandoodle 1,817]

A good movie. Great movie .. Maybe not .. But very good. Lots of SW themes and characters. Felt more like Indiana Jones than SW though. Some huge things happen.

Bad dude seems like more of a spoil rich kid and lacks the menace of Darth Maul or the power of Vader's presence.

Fighter battles are glorious and I have to say that after seeing it, FFG have to consider atmospheric battles. Half the battles take place over land.

Get out and see it. It might not take you back to the OT but it is a fun journey. No need to stay after the credits.

[jayfuture187 25]

If Ren fears being less powerful then Vader then Vader was holding back during the OT! Because that kid is powerful! He's also conflicted as hell between the dark side and the light!

All in all a great film.

[Sbloom141 751]

dude seems like more of a spoil rich kid and lacks the menace of Darth Maul or the power of Vader's presence.

He does, however, seem to have a massively explosive temper which makes him just as frightening IMO. I really liked the character and I wasn't expecting to.

As for the film in general, I thought it was fantastic. The fighter battles are amazing. Makes me want to play more X-Wing!

[gustavoeidt 0]

Can we expect another YT-1300 expansion with the modified antenna, Rey/Finn pilot/crew cards AND s&v pilot cards (the guys who stole the Falcon from Han)?

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Yeah I liked that he was a new type of Dark Side user than we've seen. Vader was powerful, but had been trained by both the Jedi and Sith for years and so could control himself. Ren has clearly only had a little bit of hands-on training, and so as powerful as he is, he is not polished at all. And he seems to have rushed himself into being this powerful, so he hardly knows how to control it. You could tell not just by the tantrums, but also with how he fought against both Finn and Rey. With his power, he should of decimated Finn immediately, and defeated Rey. But he was so un-polished and so aggressive and couldn't control himself well enough to really fight well. And I doubt he's really had much saber experience.

 

And, loved that we flipped the temptation, and he is dark but is tempted by the light. Guilt creeps into his mind and he has to fight it off.

 

 

Loved the film overall. Much better than the prequels, mainly just because of the tone and feel. Top 3 for me. Only mild complaint I have is that Starkiller base and the attack on it felt like they HAD to put it in because that's what star wars is. A big super-weapon that threatens the galaxy and a small group has to take it down. Didn't really fit in that well for me, felt a little rushed.

[KovuTalli 178]

I'd give it a 7/10. Something felt like it was missing but I can't pinpoint what. A lot of the "twists" could be seen a mile off and I had a theory it would be a movie and I was basically spot on. A lot of the scenes felt rushed and some things that were mentioned in passing and that would of been cool to see instead of what was shown. Still no more solid info on Finn, Rey, Snorke, First Order, Knights of Ren, How the resistance was formed, where the Republic is. I have so many unanswered questions. And currently the books don't answer them either.

 

Also Kylo left a lot to be desired as a villain. Started out well then ended up a whiney kid like Luke was in A New Hope, at least Vader took disappointment in a more menacing way "Apology accepted, Captain Needa", Kylo also loses to someone who is brand new to the force and has no training with a Sabre what so ever yet he has apparently had training by Luke and Snoke.

Phasma was built up as well but also not used a lot and I hope makes more of an appearance in 8 if she is not dead.

And Snoke was again not very menacing, by the end there is no really solid villain.

Edited December 17, 2015 by KovuTalli

[Conandoodle 1,817]

I'd give it a 7/10. Something felt like it was missing but I can't pinpoint what. A lot of the "twists" could be seen a mile off and I had a theory it would be a movie and I was basically spot on. A lot of the scenes felt rushed and some things that were mentioned in passing and that would of been cool to see instead of what was shown. Still no more solid info on Finn, Rey, Snorke, First Order, Knights of Ren, How the resistance was formed, where the Republic is. I have so many unanswered questions. And currently the books don't answer them either.

Interesting point, but I think this is one of the factors that make OT SW great. In the OT they reference many things outside of the film. The bounty hunter at Ord Mandell, Kessell Runs, Spice mines, Lando and Han's history, etc. When we hear these we fill in these blanks with our story. Kinda like how we fill in the blanks in an alien/monster/horror movie before we see the creature/killer. Our brain knows what scares it .. and imagines it.

SW is the same. We fill in blanks with a story that interests us. We became emotionally invested in the story as we build our own personal canon.

That is why some people love the EU (it fits with their canon) and other's hate it.

I for one don't want to be spoonfed every minute detail of the story. When we gain that personal investment in the story it makes for a much richer and interesting world.

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

Yeah even the Emperor is just a mention in ANH and then just a hologram in ESB. A lot of things in this film are build-up for the next two. It would be silly for them to blow their beans entirely already. Plus, the film was already over 2 hours. What it didn't need were a bunch of scenes of just people explaining stuff.

 

I did feel your rushed feeling, but mainly in the last 3rd of the film. I felt the first and second 3rd were almost perfectly paced and structured. All the Jakku stuff was just my ideal Star Wars.

 

Some of it was explained enough for me, even in passing. The Republic was in charge, but wasn't fighting in actual combat against the First Order. They supported the Resistance, but maybe all the politicians were too slow to react for Leia's taste.

 

And I think some of those things don't NEED more explanation. I think there was a lot of mystery, but also some of it has just been placed on it by the audience. If Finn is just Finn and not from some famous Star Wars family tree I really don't care. If all he is is a kid raised in the First Order who escaped his programming, I'm fine with that. If we do find out who his parents were, also fine.

 

From the flashback we'll defo find out about Rey's backstory, but I think they saved that for Luke to help with. Maybe he left her there (but isn't related to her) to keep her safe. Or whoever her parents are were scared of her uncontrolled abilities that they didn't understand.

 

I'm totally fine waiting for the next film for answers to all or some of it.

[Gadge 4,294]

 

I'd give it a 7/10. Something felt like it was missing but I can't pinpoint what. A lot of the "twists" could be seen a mile off and I had a theory it would be a movie and I was basically spot on. A lot of the scenes felt rushed and some things that were mentioned in passing and that would of been cool to see instead of what was shown. Still no more solid info on Finn, Rey, Snorke, First Order, Knights of Ren, How the resistance was formed, where the Republic is. I have so many unanswered questions. And currently the books don't answer them either.

Interesting point, but I think this is one of the factors that make OT SW great. In the OT they reference many things outside of the film. The bounty hunter at Ord Mandell, Kessell Runs, Spice mines, Lando and Han's history, etc. When we hear these we fill in these blanks with our story. Kinda like how we fill in the blanks in an alien/monster/horror movie before we see the creature/killer. Our brain knows what scares it .. and imagines it.

SW is the same. We fill in blanks with a story that interests us. We became emotionally invested in the story as we build our own personal canon.

That is why some people love the EU (it fits with their canon) and other's hate it.

I for one don't want to be spoonfed every minute detail of the story. When we gain that personal investment in the story it makes for a much richer and interesting world.

 

 

 

Exactly this, the beauty of the star wrs OT was the amount of mystery and reading between the lines.

 

It conjured up this vast nebulous universe of strange things.

 

To me the EU explaining every single throwaway line and giving every extra who was on screen for 2 seconds a back story ruined that mystery

 

Personally it was *everything* i wanted a new star wars movie to be.  It had the gritty used future look, thihgs made sense, there wasnt tons of silly CGI.  No annoying silly characters (BB8 is acutally pretty cool).

 

The heroes all have flaws to a degree and have the interesting attirbutes of the origihnal heroes and they are doing a great job of transitioning us onto a new generation of 'rebels'

 

equally the villians have mystery about them, Captain Phasma or whatever has a real 'boba fett' feel, Kylo Ren is clearly going to be scarred and nastier in more ways than one when he returns.  who or what is snoke?  Even the ginger general was a more believable and interesting character than ANY of the bad guys in the prequels.

 

And the lightsabre fights.... back to proper lightsabre fights, none of that riidculous 'pinball' fighting where joda an dooku richochet around some cave at silly speed.

 

In general i think it was very clever, there were enough nods to the OT to keep us old crusties happy (fights on bridges, desert planets, snow planets, death star type weapons) and lots of 'detritus' from the GCW like the downed Sds, ATATs, old helmets lying about etc   but... the new generation got to see all those tropes we loved from the OT who may not have seen them.   Its hard to bear in mind that , for example, my neighbours kid who is about 13 loves the prequels and thinks the OT is 'ok' so i think you're not alienating that type of star wars fan.

 

 

I can see a lot of EU fansbeing up in arms that there are no solo twins etc etc but to me i thought the way the characters are seen to develop in the star wars universe was very 'real',.   love doesnt always last for ever, some times people split up, even in space opera.

 

All in all i had damp eyes at many points in the film as it just pushed the right buttons for me and at one point a real jaw dropper (literally) and i was stunned.

 

Personally i know some people were sceptical but i'd put TFA as equal to ESB and certainly better than ROTJ

[Radarman5 1,347]

I loved it. I was wary of Kylo going in but I think he really works. He seems more human and insecure than Vader or the other Sith, but that helps make him less of a boogyman character. And I'm pretty sure Rey will turn out to be his sister, which is why she can stand up to him after just finding her connection to the force. They are Skywalkers after all. Also, Rey is totally Jaina (who had Han's mechanical skills), while Kylo is Jaecen Solo (Empathic/ mental bonds with others). So the Old EU is still alive in a way.

 

Oh, and did anyone notice that unlike either Death Stars, Starkiller Base actually achieved most of it's goals when it destroyed most of the New Republic's political & military power. That's an interesting change.

[TurtleFreak 350]

I loved it. I was wary of Kylo going in but I think he really works. He seems more human and insecure than Vader or the other Sith, but that helps make him less of a boogyman character. And I'm pretty sure Rey will turn out to be his sister, which is why she can stand up to him after just finding her connection to the force. They are Skywalkers after all. Also, Rey is totally Jaina (who had Han's mechanical skills), while Kylo is Jaecen Solo (Empathic/ mental bonds with others). So the Old EU is still alive in a way.

 

I agree about Kylo.  He plays a better Anakin than Anakin did, in my opinion, and I'm really curious to see where they take his character and his rivalry with Rey.  It seems like Rey should have recognized Han and Leia if she was Ben-Ren's sister even if she was taken away at a young age.  I think it's more likely that she is somehow Luke's daughter that he kept secret from everyone, and he stowed her away when Ben-Ren went on his rampage.  He would have disappeared himself to keep her safe and not draw attention to her.  That dude who Poe got the map fragment from was likely watching over her for Luke similar to how Obi-wan watched over Luke.

 

That's my current take on it anyway.  I'm sure I'll change my mind a few dozen times before the next movie comes out.

[TasteTheRainbow 8,726]

Yeah I liked that he was a new type of Dark Side user than we've seen. Vader was powerful, but had been trained by both the Jedi and Sith for years and so could control himself. Ren has clearly only had a little bit of hands-on training, and so as powerful as he is, he is not polished at all. And he seems to have rushed himself into being this powerful, so he hardly knows how to control it. You could tell not just by the tantrums, but also with how he fought against both Finn and Rey. With his power, he should of decimated Finn immediately, and defeated Rey. But he was so un-polished and so aggressive and couldn't control himself well enough to really fight well. And I doubt he's really had much saber experience.

 

And, loved that we flipped the temptation, and he is dark but is tempted by the light. Guilt creeps into his mind and he has to fight it off.

 

 

Loved the film overall. Much better than the prequels, mainly just because of the tone and feel. Top 3 for me. Only mild complaint I have is that Starkiller base and the attack on it felt like they HAD to put it in because that's what star wars is. A big super-weapon that threatens the galaxy and a small group has to take it down. Didn't really fit in that well for me, felt a little rushed.

It wasn't a super-weapon that threatened the Galaxy. It was a super weapon that destroyed the entire galactic government. It's like of Dooku had just wiped Coruscant off the map at the start of the clone wars. It means chaos for the next 2 movies, at the very least. It's a big plot point going forward, not just a repeat of a scary-but-quickly-destroyed Death Star.

[GrimmyV 7,421]

I loved it. I was wary of Kylo going in but I think he really works. He seems more human and insecure than Vader or the other Sith, but that helps make him less of a boogyman character. And I'm pretty sure Rey will turn out to be his sister, which is why she can stand up to him after just finding her connection to the force. They are Skywalkers after all. Also, Rey is totally Jaina (who had Han's mechanical skills), while Kylo is Jaecen Solo (Empathic/ mental bonds with others). So the Old EU is still alive in a way.

 

Oh, and did anyone notice that unlike either Death Stars, Starkiller Base actually achieved most of it's goals when it destroyed most of the New Republic's political & military power. That's an interesting change.

That scene is probably gonna be the one sticking point for uber-nerds. The depiction of the planets' destruction couldn't happen literally and be visible from any planetary surface without seeing events light years away instantaneously. But then Han made the Kessel run in 14, er 12 parsecs even if that's not a unit of time (the EU explanation is pure BS) and there's no way the Falcon could travel from The Hoth System to Anoat and then to Bespin without a hyperdrive. It's made very clear this isn't sci fi, this is fairy tale. That's why Disney owns it!

Oh and I loved this movie, easily better than ROTJ with emotional scenes on par with Luke/Vader/Emperor. The first movie worthy of being Star Wars in a long time. This is the movie I wanted 30 years ago, well worth the wait. And we got 2 more episode with extra stand alone movies in between, this is awesome!

[Conandoodle 1,817]

All interesting observations. One thing that has yet to be mentioned is J.J.

Prior to the release there was a bit of doubt around J.J.'s ability to give us a good movie. I argued that he was perfect for the role as he effectively turned Star Trek into Star Wars by removing all of the hard sci fi and replacing it with a simple 'Hero Journey' in space.

Admittedly, I began to have my doubts as we got closer to 17th as we started to see more and more SW products on the shelf. My opinion shifted from good movie to 'giant advertisement for all the products we will see'. We are beginning to be literally saturated with SW merch over the next 10 years. Even look at cracked.com.. every second article is SW related.

I was happy to see that JJ delivered on that promise of a great movie and I've yet to see any negative reviews of J.J. Well done fella .. And thank you..

[Conandoodle 1,817]

Also, I really hope Rey is not a Skywalker or Solo. It's a big universe out there.

Now if Finn was a Solo .. that would be interesting .. and Lando might have some explaining to do.

[VanorDM 11,599]

he effectively turned Star Trek into Star Wars by removing all of the hard sci fi and replacing it with a simple 'Hero Journey' in space.

Honestly there's not that much hard sci fi in Trek, mostly just technobabble that tries to pretend it's science.

[TurtleFreak 350]

 

he effectively turned Star Trek into Star Wars by removing all of the hard sci fi and replacing it with a simple 'Hero Journey' in space.

Honestly there's not that much hard sci fi in Trek, mostly just technobabble that tries to pretend it's science.

 

 

Actually, I think that's the definition of sci-fi.  If it wasn't pretending, then it would be real science and no longer science fiction.  Star Wars by contrast doesn't even bother to pretend it's science which is why people call it science fantasy.

[treybert 893]

It wasn't a super-weapon that threatened the Galaxy. It was a super weapon that destroyed the entire galactic government. It's like of Dooku had just wiped Coruscant off the map at the start of the clone wars. It means chaos for the next 2 movies, at the very least. It's a big plot point going forward, not just a repeat of a scary-but-quickly-destroyed Death Star.

 

 

Aye, it was a first strike weapon to destroy the central government AND the Republic fleet. While larger than the death star, I don't think it was near the same investment as it was built into an existing planet. 

 

It probably only had 2 shots before the sun was completely drained. I doubt it had hyperspace capabilities. It's main purpose was to destroy the Republic core, the second shot on the resistance base was just a bonus.

 

But I don't think its the only one. Maybe the first one. How many more do they have hiding in argentina? 

[VanorDM 11,599]

Actually, I think that's the definition of sci-fi.

No Hard Sci-Fi is defined as fiction that uses real science or at least as close to it as possible. For example the syfy show Expanse is fairly close to hard sci-fi.

There is next to nothing in Star Trek that even comes close to real science, so while yes, it's sci-fi it is not hard sci-fi.

Edited December 18, 2015 by VanorDM

[treybert 893]

I'd give it a 7/10. Something felt like it was missing but I can't pinpoint what. A lot of the "twists" could be seen a mile off and I had a theory it would be a movie and I was basically spot on. A lot of the scenes felt rushed and some things that were mentioned in passing and that would of been cool to see instead of what was shown. Still no more solid info on Finn, Rey, Snorke, First Order, Knights of Ren, How the resistance was formed, where the Republic is. I have so many unanswered questions. And currently the books don't answer them either.

 

Also Kylo left a lot to be desired as a villain. Started out well then ended up a whiney kid like Luke was in A New Hope, at least Vader took disappointment in a more menacing way "Apology accepted, Captain Needa", Kylo also loses to someone who is brand new to the force and has no training with a Sabre what so ever yet he has apparently had training by Luke and Snoke.

Phasma was built up as well but also not used a lot and I hope makes more of an appearance in 8 if she is not dead.

And Snoke was again not very menacing, by the end there is no really solid villain.

 

When I think about it, my greatest disappointment (I did love the movie though) comes from too many questions not being answered. EP7 is really the farewell to old characters and the introduction to new ones.

 

Kylo had multiple key scenes where he had the chance to mirror Vader, but turned out differently (ie the tantrum and NOT killing the officer). It was also stated by Snoke at the end that his training isn't complete. His raw power was defined in the beginning (which was awesome), but it's clearly unforged. In regards to his fight with Rey, he was injured by a bowcaster blast and was also trying to turn Rey (they stressed the first part multiple times). At the end of it, it's the start of a new villain for the next 2 movies. I agree though that snoke was pretty poorly developed. But maybe at the same time, we need to stop trying to think of them as Vader and the Emperor. Maybe he's not supposed to be the main villain.

 

Perhaps han's last words to Kylo sink in, and unlike vader, he kills his master to take control. If I had to guess, I think his training with luke stopped well before the making the lightsaber part, which is pretty darn early in the journey. That would explain why he was terrible with the blade. But I loved how the blade perfectly reflected Kylo, complete raw power. 

 

Phasma bothered me too. Such great potential to be awesome, but didn't have a single defining scene. I sort of have the feeling shes a robot/android though, so maybe there are multiple of her. The amount of modulation in her voice is substantial. And as I have no less than 3 phasma figures littering my desk, I don't think they're going to write her off yet.

 

 

From what I can gather, the backstory on the republic / resistance / First Order is as follows (pieced from multiple reddit threads):

The Republic controls the majority of the galaxy. Their government center is NOT on coruscant, but rather moves from time to time to other planets. Their current location 'was' on Hosnian prime (which starkiller base destroyed). They are more interested in trading with the First Order rather than all out war. The Republic still controls the largest fleet (also destroyed by starkiller base). They are 'not so' secretly supporting the Resistance, a splinter group willing to use military force against the FO. But as seen, the Resistance is barely more than a fighter squadron.

 

At this point, the FO isn't strong enough to take the Republic head on. Their army is built on abductions pretty much, so any direct attack against the Republic would end in failure. Thus starkiller base was used to destroy the Republic's core and their fleet. And unlike the death star, it was designed to be a single shot weapon to level the playing field. The second charge up shot to destroy the Resistance base was just a bonus.

 

Now there's a gap of knowledge on where the FO actually comes from. I didn't see much in the movie that either proves or disproves this theory, but it's my belief that they're the nazi's that escaped to Argentina. The SW galaxy map is only about 2/3 known, and the Aftermath book hinted at the Emperor being very interested in this unknown portion. I think we can allude that if Jakku (which is on the outer fringe of the galaxy) isn't controlled by the Republic, nor is it controlled by the FO, then it is somewhere in between the 2 factions. Maybe when its released on bluray the map r2 projects can be analyzed. 

 

One part of the movie sort of backs this up. The map to skywalker was just a piece of the full map. The resistance couldn't match it to their database (ie unexplored), but Kylo said that they had the rest of the map from old imperial records, just not the final portion. It might be a bit of a stretch, but it seemed to me that the FO had a more complete galaxy map than the Resistance. Or I'm just trying to fit it too hard.

 

 

Now a nagging question I have had ever since I saw the movie:

 

Did Fin ever show any aptitude to the force? Aside from using a lightsaber, I can't recall any portion that suggests hes a force user.

 

 

edit: the entry on starwars.com has been updated

THE FIRST ORDER

The New Republic’s rise reduced the once-mighty Empire to a rump state hemmed in by strict disarmament treaties and punishing reparations. But in the galaxy’s Unknown Regions, former Imperial officers, nobles and technologists plotted a return to power, building fleets and armies in secret. This movement became the First Order, ruled by Supreme Leader Snoke, and is now ready to reclaim the Imperial legacy.

Edited December 18, 2015 by treybert

[treybert 893]

Is this description on starwars.com new?

 

There are a number of entries that refer to 'Unknown Regions' now. Maybe I just missed it before

 

 

JAKKU

A harsh desert world, Jakku is a lawless place that’s home to thieves, outlaws and refugees. During the final years of the Galactic Civil War, Jakku was the site of a secret Imperial research base and served as a jumping-off point for warships heading into the Unknown Regions. The Empire made a last stand above the frontier planet, leading to a pitched battle between rebel and Imperial fleets. Jakku’s sandy wastes are littered with old wrecks, picked over by desperate scavengers searching for parts that can be salvaged and sold.

Edited December 18, 2015 by treybert

[VanorDM 11,599]

When I think about it, my greatest disappointment (I did love the movie though) comes from too many questions not being answered.

I think that was intentional to a point. Whether you like it or not, franchises like this are becoming more and more cross media things. I think there is a point of them leaving some questions unanswered because either they have or will be answered in a book, comic or some other format.

There's also the very real possibly they're saving those answers for the next movie.

 

he was injured by a bowcaster blast

I love the fact that Chewie finally got to use his bowcaster, because unless I missed it, he never fired it in the other movies.

Did Fin ever show any aptitude to the force? Aside from using a lightsaber, I can't recall any portion that suggests hes a force user.

Nothing. I know I kept expecting him to show some, and when he shook off his conditioning I thought maybe that was it. But I think he's just a guy with a blaster. The trailers did a good job of making people think he was going to be a jedi though.

[treybert 893]

Yea I didn't really expect them to answer everything. I was more a victim of my own over-hyping. 

 

I love the fact that Chewie finally got to use his bowcaster, because unless I missed it, he never fired it in the other movies.

 

I think he used it in ANH in the deathstar, and maybe on endor to blow up a speeder? Now you got me wondering.......

[VanorDM 11,599]

I think he used it in ANH in the deathstar

He got it taken away or left it on the falcon. But he wasn't using it when they broke Leia out of the cell, he was using some sort of long barreled blaster.

and maybe on endor to blow up a speeder?

Maybe he used it to blow up the probe droid on Hoth? Or was that Han?