Double ISD lists

[Anomander 19]

So,

 

Wave 2 has come and brought quite a bit of extra firepower on the table, with even the lowly Cr-90s able to shoot 4-5 dice out of the sides. Under these circumstances, I feel the Empire needs solid HP/shields in order to survive, the best contender being the ISD. And what's better than 1 ISD... obviously 2 (or 3, but I haven't bought a third yet, so let's stop at 2).

 

Here are some lists that I'm pondering, keeping in mind that I generally play in a squadron-light medium.

 

 

List 1 - Tanking

 

ISD II, Motti

ISD I

VSD I

VSD I

 

Fire Lanes (or Contested Outpost), Dangerous Territory, Most Wanted

 

Comes out to 400 points on the mark, with no upgrades. Honestly, I don't like it too much, the VSDs are too slow in case I want to get closer to the enemy in a rush. On the other hand I have 48 HP while Motti is alive, good luck getting through that.

 

List 2 - Say hello to my little friend

 

ISD II, Motti

ISD I

VSD I

Gladiator I, Demolisher, APT

 

Objectives as above

 

398 points, with a faster ship, less resilient ship thrown in. I flew a variation of this list on Sunday (with Superior Positions instead). I lost because of the objective mostly, got outmaneuvered by CR-90s. On the plus side, the ISDs survived almost unharmed, and the VSD was killed on literally the last shot of the game.

 

List 3 - Did anyone say Firespray?

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery Team, Tractors, ECM, XI7

ISD I, Tractors

Gladiator I, Ordnance Experts, APT, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Objectives as above.

 

397 points, this is what I'm planning on trying next. I lose an activation in exchange for tricking out the ISDs a bit. Hopefully slowing down the faster ships will make it harder for me to get outmaneuvered. The Firesprays are there to help an alpha strike versus a ship or to finish off stuff that has drifted behind my battle line. 

 

List 4 - Less tractor, better firepower

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery Team, ECM, XI7

ISD II, ECM

Gladiator I, APT, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Objectives as above.

 

398 points, with no tractors but two ISD IIs I should have a much better punch and one more red from the front. I still can't fit in a second Gunnery Team without sacrificing the APTs and losing any initiative bid.

 

List 5 - TRCs are good

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery Team, ECM, XI7

ISD II, Needa, Turbolaser Reroute Circuits

Gladiator I, APT, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Objectives are above.

 

The second ISD can throw 5 red dice (concentrate firepower) at long range, with one guaranteed double damage. Trades the extra defence for extra offence and on the right shot can put a lot of hurt on something. 400 on the mark.

 

I'm wainting for opinions on these, especially the last three lists, but also any kind of 2 ISD lists that you might suggest. I also plan to try a 2 ISD Rhymerball, but I'm afraid two activations are too few and I will get outplayed/outmaneuvered by any list.

 

Edited to add list 5.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Anomander

[HERO 842]

List 3 - Did anyone say Firespray?

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery Team, Tractors, ECM, XI7

ISD I, Tractors

Gladiator I, Ordnance Experts, APT, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Objectives as above.

 

397 points, this is what I'm planning on trying next. I lose an activation in exchange for tricking out the ISDs a bit. Hopefully slowing down the faster ships will make it harder for me to get outmaneuvered. The Firesprays are there to help an alpha strike versus a ship or to finish off stuff that has drifted behind my battle line.

 

I like this one the best.

Although, I would say that with a 397, you might as well go full 400.  Pick up Needa on the ISD-II, replace Tractor for ECM, rest looks fine.

[Anomander 19]

 

List 3 - Did anyone say Firespray?

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery Team, Tractors, ECM, XI7

ISD I, Tractors

Gladiator I, Ordnance Experts, APT, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Objectives as above.

 

397 points, this is what I'm planning on trying next. I lose an activation in exchange for tricking out the ISDs a bit. Hopefully slowing down the faster ships will make it harder for me to get outmaneuvered. The Firesprays are there to help an alpha strike versus a ship or to finish off stuff that has drifted behind my battle line.

 

I like this one the best.

Although, I would say that with a 397, you might as well go full 400.  Pick up Needa on the ISD-II, replace Tractor for ECM, rest looks fine.

 

No ECM's allowed on the ISD I, what you are suggesting is basically list 4 that I had above.

[mobow213 133]

A heavy bomber fleet will tear you up.

Went up againsy you 2nd list. With ackbar, mc80 with only home one, two assault frig with x17. And rest was a wings and y wings.

The y wings and a wings cracked the ISD then the two assault frig finished it off.

The mc80 one shooted the glad and cracked yhe second ISD. Round three mc80 goes and between the 3y wings and 1 a wing that dealt 6 dmg the mc80 finished it off.

Look at bringing atleast 80 points of sqaudrons cover

[HERO 842]

 

 

List 3 - Did anyone say Firespray?

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery Team, Tractors, ECM, XI7

ISD I, Tractors

Gladiator I, Ordnance Experts, APT, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Objectives as above.

 

397 points, this is what I'm planning on trying next. I lose an activation in exchange for tricking out the ISDs a bit. Hopefully slowing down the faster ships will make it harder for me to get outmaneuvered. The Firesprays are there to help an alpha strike versus a ship or to finish off stuff that has drifted behind my battle line.

 

I like this one the best.

Although, I would say that with a 397, you might as well go full 400.  Pick up Needa on the ISD-II, replace Tractor for ECM, rest looks fine.

 

No ECM's allowed on the ISD I, what you are suggesting is basically list 4 that I had above.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I said ISD-II.

[Anomander 19]

 

 

 

List 3 - Did anyone say Firespray?

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery Team, Tractors, ECM, XI7

ISD I, Tractors

Gladiator I, Ordnance Experts, APT, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Objectives as above.

 

397 points, this is what I'm planning on trying next. I lose an activation in exchange for tricking out the ISDs a bit. Hopefully slowing down the faster ships will make it harder for me to get outmaneuvered. The Firesprays are there to help an alpha strike versus a ship or to finish off stuff that has drifted behind my battle line.

 

I like this one the best.

Although, I would say that with a 397, you might as well go full 400.  Pick up Needa on the ISD-II, replace Tractor for ECM, rest looks fine.

 

No ECM's allowed on the ISD I, what you are suggesting is basically list 4 that I had above.

 

 

I'm pretty sure I said ISD-II.

 

You did, but then the ISD II already has ECM...

[HERO 842]

Excellent, so Avenger or Intel Officer it is!

[Anomander 19]

I played the 4th list today and I was unimpressed by the Needa/TRC combo. ECM would have been much more useful on my second ISD. Played Contested Outpost vs an Imperial ISD-VSD-GSD-Raider list and won by 30 points. At the end only my Motti ISD, the two Firesprays and his Vader ISD were still standing. Also, ACM would have probably helped more than APT. I'm still undecided about those.

 

So I will try this version (with no initiative bid):

 

ISD II, Motti, Gunnery, ECM, XI7

ISD II, ECM

Gladiator I, ACM, Demolisher

2xFirespray

 

Most Wanted, Contested Outpost, Dangerous Territory

[chrisrivers 122]

I really think people are going to need more than a couple squadrons.  I ran a Fireball against a squadron-less list this past Tuesday and the Rhymerball just murdered ships.  I was taking out VSDs in one turn with it and help from an ISD-II.

[Englishpete 1,379]

If you want to run 2 x ISD's bring 80 points in Firesprays. Keep them as squadron deterrent if your opponent brings them, if not, go to town on his ships.

 

Gunnery Team and ECM's are a must. The rest is flavor so go for it.

 

Motti or Tarkin are the Admirals of choice. 

[Anomander 19]

If you want to run 2 x ISD's bring 80 points in Firesprays. Keep them as squadron deterrent if your opponent brings them, if not, go to town on his ships.

 

Gunnery Team and ECM's are a must. The rest is flavor so go for it.

 

Motti or Tarkin are the Admirals of choice. 

 

After a test match yesterday I actually brought something like this to a tournament today and placed second (tied in points with first place, but lower MoV). The list was (400 pt):

 

ISD II, Motti, ECM

ISD II, ECM, XI7

Raider I

4xFirespray

Adv. Gunnery, Fire Lanes, Intel Sweep

 

The Firesprays died in the first match against a squadron-heavy rebel build, but then again they held their own up to last turn. In the next two matches, however, they owned, killing, in order of cost: 1 ISD (w/Motti), 1 AFMkII (w/Ackbar), 1 VSD and 1 MC30. Won the first and third match (vs Ackbar Rebels), tied the second (vs. Motti Imperials).

 

The Raider fired only once in 3 matches but: made 45 points first match by collecting objectives from Dangerous Territory and spamming engineering; was my last surviving ship in the second match, keeping me from being wiped and allowing the Firesprays to kill the VSD last turn; made 75 points (Intel Sweep) last match. The last match, where he got to fire, also spelled his doom, as he was killed by a TRC CR-90 frigate.

 

Random thoughts:

I honestly did not miss Gunnery Teams, as I generally got double arcs every match with the ISDs. ECMs are far more important (and the reason why I don't like the ISD I).

What I do miss is having a third ship that is actually scary, and not just an extra activation that occasionally makes some points. I find flying the Raider very hard, since its main defence (2 evades) is worthless at short range (where it wants to be in order to fire). I'm waiting for suggestions on how to fly that ship. Or should I just play 2 ISDs and add Dengar, 2 Gunnery Teams, and XI7/HTT?

I misread Fire lanes (thought that I get to place the Firesprays on the tokens and get the points), but I never played it so I guess that's fine. Next time I will most likely bring Contested Outpost. Or should I risk it and take Fleet Ambush?

 

 

TLDR: Firesprays are awesome!

Edited December 19, 2015 by Anomander

[Zombicide 35]

I think you're better off removing the raider and committing to either a Rhymerball or a Dengar/Anti-squad build. If you want to use a Raider, I think the Raider II is more useful with being able to engage effectively at medium range. You could go crazy and add Intel officers + NK-7 ion cannons and soften up a target before the ISDs get there, but you'd be losing any attempt at winning a squadron game.