Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
HappyDaze

Enough of the "Keeping the Players Hungry" Silliness Please

Recommended Posts

Agree with much of what I've read here.

 

Although I feel that things like price, rarity and Restricted are intended to be checks and balances in this system, it's not something like Pathfinder where you automatically get level-appropriate items as you level up. A lot of GMs hand-wave these factors then wonder why the characters seem overpowered.

 

However, 'keeping the players hungry' is a bit silly, and a balancing act.  Too much credits and they won't have much to adventure for.  Too few and they can't buy anything and get frustrated.

 

Anyway, money isn't everything, and I really dislike the whole 'looting' concept of grabbing everything and selling it off.  That's not 'space opera' for me.

 

 

And money turned out the least of my player's concerns when playing Pirate Queen anyway.  They sided with the Sorority and inadvertently started a new galactic civil war, dragging in Empire, Alliance and the Jedi/Sith and fringe factions from all sides.  Now they're in a fight to the death with Zann and his allies, and assuming they win, they'll be very famous with allies (and enemies) from every faction.

Edited by MTaylor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see where someone running out and doing nothing but buying the best gear, ships and droids wouldn't be fun. They're using the money as an "I win" button. But someone living the high life (or even just a comfortable life) isn't necessarily a game killer.

I like the idea that a character with large wealth reserves will blow her credits on off-mission shenanigans.

 

I am (sadly) also aware that a majority of players are lazy and many are easily frustrated. And lazy, easily frustrated players always take the easiest route to seceding in a scenario. Wealthy characters run by lazy, easily frustrated players have insta-problem-destroying devices or argue that they should be able to hire an NPC to take care of the job for them. If any game actually took this possibility into consideration, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but 95% of games (off the head exception is Paranoia: High Programmers) are designed with the assumption that the PC will put himself in danger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see that as an issue with the game or Module, that is an Issue with a GM not being prepared or able to come up with solutions on the fly.

GM flexibility is a requirement but the game provides the guidance and sets the tone. If the game gives no insight on how to handle a situation the game's rules cause, it's not the GMs fault. Especially since throwing money at a problem instead of putting your neck on the line isn't something a hero protagonist in a Star Wars movie does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some one wanting or needing to hire others is not something the game caused. It is something the player choose to do and look into. 

 

If A Gm can't extrapolate what other might charge for their services based some what on what the players themselves are being offered for the same job, well then that gm will be at a loss... that isn't the games fault or cause. And the solution is simple. 

 

Even looking atminion level vesus Rival.. a Rival would be looking to be paid at the same rate as a PC.... a Minion? Probably could be hired at 1/10th or less. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some one wanting or needing to hire others is not something the game caused. It is something the player choose to do and look into. 

 

If A Gm can't extrapolate what other might charge for their services based some what on what the players themselves are being offered for the same job, well then that gm will be at a loss... that isn't the games fault or cause. And the solution is simple. 

 

Even looking atminion level vesus Rival.. a Rival would be looking to be paid at the same rate as a PC.... a Minion? Probably could be hired at 1/10th or less.

If a player in my game wants to hire minions (small 'm'), they're welcome to. Indeed, I have the Squad Rules from the AoR GM screen at the to beready and have mentioned that they can use Leadership rolls to command a squad. But for an adventure is completable by hired minions rather than pushing PC level skills to their limits, it requires a much more forgiving GM than me! ;):)

Edited by knasserII

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Contrary to the above, people in universe dont classify themselves as Minions or Rivals and thus don't use that as a measure of their value.

 

They probably don't track their wound threshold either, but it still likely applies when they're getting shot....  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Contrary to the above, people in universe dont classify themselves as Minions or Rivals and thus don't use that as a measure of their value.

 

We may not label people that way, but they still might exist..

 

This is what creates Variations in Pay across the board for may jobs.  

 

From the basic beginner to the professional with years of experience. 

 

It existed in trucking when I was a trucker and it exists in the Pharmaceutical industry that I work in. 

 

But as was jsut pointed out by KnasserII, If all the GM is offering the PCs, is a Job that minions could do, 

Either the GM isn't really offering te PCs much of a challenge, Or there is more to the adventure than the PCs might assume on the surface. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 If any game actually took this possibility into consideration, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but 95% of games (off the head exception is Paranoia: High Programmers) are designed with the assumption that the PC will put himself in danger.

 

 

Yeah, but the only reason that Paranoia doesn't fit into that 95% is that because the player is always in constant danger. Going to the bathroom will get him killed. Not going to the bathroom will get him killed. Being in the same vicinity as a bathroom will get him killed.

 

Hell, he will probably be killed BY the bathroom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 If any game actually took this possibility into consideration, I wouldn't have an issue with it, but 95% of games (off the head exception is Paranoia: High Programmers) are designed with the assumption that the PC will put himself in danger.
 

Yeah, but the only reason that Paranoia doesn't fit into that 95% is that because the player is always in constant danger. Going to the bathroom will get him killed. Not going to the bathroom will get him killed. Being in the same vicinity as a bathroom will get him killed.

 

Hell, he will probably be killed BY the bathroom.

And this amongst several other reasons, is why Paranoia remains the greatest of role-playing games. I mean many others strive to be fun, but of how many can you say that happiness is actually mandatory? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

or argue that they should be able to hire an NPC to take care of the job for them.

Not a problem. Group designs and runs the hirelings that their main characters paid to do the job. Makes for a side story and potential recurring NPCs (or replacement PCs).

**

As for the "keep them hungry" nonsense, there's a direct correlation between piddly payouts and PCs who strip every opponent/location/etc they deal with for resources. If you don't want the latter, don't do the former.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, I didn't want to add the total payout for Mask of the Pirate Queen until today, since I just ran it (9-hr marathon!) and some of my players are forum members. However, the total potential payout is actually 40k per player. 10K base, doubled in Part II (page 48), then potentially doubled again in Part III if the players side with the mole (pages 93 & 94). The book is very clear that the traitor still has time and clearance to access funds to double the payment before the truth comes out. My group settled for 20k each, as they liked the way the story unfolded, despite losing out on a substantial amount of credits.

Edited by verdantsf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find the effect of money on campaigns depends a lot on character motivation. In some groups it will kill the campaign, in others it's an enabler to have bigger adventures.

In my old WEG campaign we were hard core rebels. We got a ton of money and amazing gear. Didn't matter. We were in it to win it against a galaxy spanning empire that always had more resources. And any excess money, stolen ships, weapons, etc, went straight to the cause.

Our last EoE campaign that lasted for about a year and a half died because of too much money. We took turns s GM and one was too generous and that was the beginning of the end of the campaign. The characters were close knit but not really altruistic and without the motivation for more the campaign just petered out. I talked with another player afterward and we both agreed if the campaign had continued our plot would have been to smash a lot of the parties stuff, to motivate them with both revenge and to get more stuff again.

So it honestly depends. We played the new D&D for a while and really enjoyed it, and some of the awesome loot, but two characters made it to lvl 15 without even getting a +1 weapon. And now we're playing Force and Destiny and a mountain of cash wouldn't make a difference as we hide from the empire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given some of the comments in this thread, i think some of you would be interested in my home brew RPG system "3D"...  every dice pool consists of 3 dice between a d4 and a d12, generally there is 1 required skill for each check but you can fill in the other 2 dice with any appropriate skills attributes or equipment dice... anything that provides dice is "character advancement" and must be paid for with character points, everything else can be paid for with the wealth SKILL (the wealth skill can be used in a lot of dice pools, for example if you needed to repair a car, you could rent a repair shop and thereby include wealth in the check to fix the car, bribes, gambling etc also use the wealth skill) . half the character point cost for equipment is "familiarity" (you have to be familiar with equipment to gain the benefit of its dice) so if you take a gun that you aren't already familiar with, you'd still be able to shoot the gun but you wouldn't get to use it's damage die or finesse die in your dice pools with the attack, to use those dice you'd have to pay the familiarity half of the character point cost of the gun.  If you sell gear you don't get character points back instead you gain favorable circumstances on future wealth checks to buy stuff (that doesn't provide dice) so there is very little game mechanical incentive to steal/loot things that you don't need.  And stealing looting things you do need only makes them "free" is you already have familiarity with them, i.e. a replacement weapon).  My system makes "money" a plot device not a resource, and it also has a lot of other "inspired" game mechanics... I designed it to "fix"/avoid the "problems" in other games, and also the dice roll statistics just work right, and if you haven't seen statistics that actually "work right" it's really hard to know how bad the stats are in games where they don't "work right" also although the stats work right and relying on dice rolls would work well, because of other mechanics outcomes are largely "chosen" rather than decided by dice rolls, but dice rolls determine the rate of replenishment of your ability to "choose" the outcomes that you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting into this one late, but for a while, I thought that I was being too generous. In Jewel of Yavin, I let the bidding get pretty high. Granted, the PCs spent a full session laying groundwork putting the bidders against each other, and convincing some to bid beyond their means for the sake of keeping up appearances. They also made some extra money by spreading rumors that their cloud car pilot was no good, and then placing bets on him to win. 

 

For a while, I was worried that a) this would set up expectations for high payouts every game, and b) the players would end up with so much high end gear that it would become impossible to pose any challenges. 

 

What I found was quite the opposite. I have actually been able to run sessions where trouble finds the PCs, instead of them taking on a job. There is no payday at the end, but the players are able to have fun, because they've built up a reserve. "Well, I guess those repairs are coming out the group fund." Last game, I actually had some of their security droids taken over by a slicer, and they had to shoot them. Well, they can get more. 

 

Now, maybe I just hit the jackpot this time, and found a group of players who enjoy a good adventure, no matter the cost. I know many players want their characters to advance every session. I haven't heard feedback on this one, but when I mentioned a previous adventure that was one "I got a bad feeling" after another, one player said "that was a fun adventure."  So that's one I'll be submitting to run at GenCon. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ten THOUSAND? We could almost buy our own ship for that.

 

Anyway, I think it's a bit silly to have such a problem over this. In my campaign, 10,000 credits per player would have been a veritable windfall. They barely had enough to keep their ship in the air. They weren't really concerned over gear or credits, though, they were interested mostly in their characters' stories.

 

 

 

I also think it's silly to say that the payout could run into the hundreds of thousands, or whatever. If the book says "10k per crew member", is it trying to suggest that if your party has 4 people, then the payout is 40k? And if you have 5 people then the payout is 50k?

 

Unless it's specifically called out that whoever's offering the bounty is counting up how many people are in your party and giving them 10k credits, that's how I would play it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...