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The Thing In The Attic

The Cataclysm new expansion is announced

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Oh my god.  This is awesome.  Can I preorder yet??? 

 

If this sells well this gives hope to people for the sea expansion and others we thought may never happen.....So, my advice to everyone is buy one...and buy one for a friend!  :-)  

 

But seriously, with something like this coming out, we NEED AN FAQ!  

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Was really excited to see the words "new expansion" and "Talisman" together on my feed on Facebook, and I really dig the theme, but I don't know how this will be pulled off. I am a big proponent of The Dragon expansion, and I place a lot of emphasis on the congruency of the various expansions' themes and how well they work together, in addition to valuing table space (I own most of the small boxes, none of the big ones besides of course the dragon, which does not take up additional space).

Replacing the inner region with an expansion like The Dragon made sense, because it did not really replace the whole game like this one seems to do. And it got rid of a lot of redundant themes in the inner region like the reaper and werewolf (for those who own blood moon and the reaper), and added a fitting final dragon boss. Sure, it intruded at times, but never completely, and never permanently. Same with harbinger (though you could say the terrain cards are semi-permanent).

That being said, the board looks quite nice and very interesting, but like I said, I don't see how this will work out. I think this is meant to be an "expansion" as in it will be a variant board. Meaning the main board will be sitting in the box, unused. And when players want to play with the main board again, this will go back in the box, unused. I don't really like that in an "expansion", as I believe all boards should be able to be used at the same time, since we invested our hard-earned coin in each. Then again, it is too early to tell if this will be the case, but it certainly does seem it is. Maybe it would have been better to have made it a replacement overlay for the middle region somehow like The Dragon was the replacement for the Inner Region?

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I am excited but wonder how it fits in with the other expansions.

I reckon it might be like Ticket to Ride's expansions where you need the tokens from the base game.

One idea I have for an all expansions sesh is that the Cataclysm board overlays the main board when the final omen from the Harbinger is discarded, but will have to wait and see until the rulebook is published.

I just considered this, and if the final Omen being drawn is the trigger for this board being put out, I won't mind it in that case. But that would require players to own Harbinger before buying this expansion. Maybe there is an alternate trigger in the rule book for those who don't own Harbinger. Anyway, I feel that if this is a sequel to Harbinger and the base game meant to be overlayed at a certain point in the game, and not a replacement, I would definitely consider buying this.

But if this board is just a replacement for the original, I would opt to skip it altogether.

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I for one am glad we (finally!) get alternative main board. The old one IMO has lots of room for improvement. I know many people prefer the classic one, if nothing else than because of nostalgia. I want more interactive board, with as few subpar spaces as possible.

 

Examples:

- village has poor choice of items, sword is useless with City, bottle of water can't be bought

- spaces like chasm or black knight should give opportunity to do something except dying

- abyss is a joke

- I like more how relic handles spaces with healing (heal 1 life for free, more for gold)

- forest and crags could have card drawing in them and loss of turn is a boring mechanic

- praying at graveyard/chapel sucks

- tavern isn't interesting

- castle isn't interesting

- too few spaces with "draw 2 cards"

- portal of power is pretty much a copy of mines/crypt, except easier

- Warlock's useless if you have talisman

Edited by Bludgeon

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Don't be too hasty, Khan, for all the expansions have a sort of 'mix and match' quality.  You/someone  could use Dragons' cards, without the overlay.  Or vice a versa.  Same with other expansions; not using the night/day mechanic but using the other cards, etc.

 

Not for me, but it does give options. I am like you and prefer to use all expansions.

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If you're worried about replacing your old board, I bet you never played Runebound Second Edition. ;)

Each game could only use one board, and there was the base game and five board expansions. That's five unused boards at any time!

This will be fine...

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I just considered this, and if the final Omen being drawn is the trigger for this board being put out, I won't mind it in that case. But that would require players to own Harbinger before buying this expansion. Maybe there is an alternate trigger in the rule book for those who don't own Harbinger. Anyway, I feel that if this is a sequel to Harbinger and the base game meant to be overlayed at a certain point in the game, and not a replacement, I would definitely consider buying this.

But if this board is just a replacement for the original, I would opt to skip it altogether.

 

So you have a problem with having to choose 1 of 2 boards for each game, but you don't have problem with having to choose 2-4 characters from 64 each game?  :blink:

Edited by Bludgeon

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I just considered this, and if the final Omen being drawn is the trigger for this board being put out, I won't mind it in that case. But that would require players to own Harbinger before buying this expansion. Maybe there is an alternate trigger in the rule book for those who don't own Harbinger. Anyway, I feel that if this is a sequel to Harbinger and the base game meant to be overlayed at a certain point in the game, and not a replacement, I would definitely consider buying this.

But if this board is just a replacement for the original, I would opt to skip it altogether.

So you have a problem with having to choose 1 of 2 boards for each game, but you don't have problem with having to choose 2-4 characters from 64 each game?  :blink:

But that's different because each character has the chance of being activated during the course of the game due to characters dying, etc. That is like saying if you did not use EVERY adventure card atleast once, there is no point in having more than 100 adventure cards. Everything is random and ready to be activated. But a dead board isn't. That's the difference.

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I just considered this, and if the final Omen being drawn is the trigger for this board being put out, I won't mind it in that case. But that would require players to own Harbinger before buying this expansion. Maybe there is an alternate trigger in the rule book for those who don't own Harbinger. Anyway, I feel that if this is a sequel to Harbinger and the base game meant to be overlayed at a certain point in the game, and not a replacement, I would definitely consider buying this.

But if this board is just a replacement for the original, I would opt to skip it altogether.

So you have a problem with having to choose 1 of 2 boards for each game, but you don't have problem with having to choose 2-4 characters from 64 each game?  :blink:

But that's different because each character has the chance of being activated during the course of the game due to characters dying, etc. That is like saying if you did not use EVERY adventure card atleast once, there is no point in having more than 100 adventure cards. Everything is random and ready to be activated. But a dead board isn't. That's the difference.

 

Ok if you say so. Sounds like splitting hairs to me.

If you had one adventure card in the deck that says to switch to old board, you'd be happy with the cataclysm?

Edited by Bludgeon

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I'm willing to say I have great confidence in FFG and that this expansion will meet most's expectations.  I'm sure we'll mostly all be pleased.

 

I have to also admit, I would not have thought of replacing the board en total.  I like someone's idea that possibly an Omen from Harbinger 'triggers' the placement of the board.

 

Have to wait 2 months to find out more!

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I just considered this, and if the final Omen being drawn is the trigger for this board being put out, I won't mind it in that case. But that would require players to own Harbinger before buying this expansion. Maybe there is an alternate trigger in the rule book for those who don't own Harbinger. Anyway, I feel that if this is a sequel to Harbinger and the base game meant to be overlayed at a certain point in the game, and not a replacement, I would definitely consider buying this.

But if this board is just a replacement for the original, I would opt to skip it altogether.

So you have a problem with having to choose 1 of 2 boards for each game, but you don't have problem with having to choose 2-4 characters from 64 each game?  :blink:

But that's different because each character has the chance of being activated during the course of the game due to characters dying, etc. That is like saying if you did not use EVERY adventure card atleast once, there is no point in having more than 100 adventure cards. Everything is random and ready to be activated. But a dead board isn't. That's the difference.

Ok if you say so. Sounds like splitting hairs to me.

If you had one adventure card in the deck that says to switch to old board, you'd be happy with the cataclysm?

Like I said with the possible Omen card scenario, I wouldn't mind it if everything had the possibility of being used. I just don't want to feel like I am rebuying the base game.

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I wear it as a badge of honor that by using all components in all expansions, we have not experience every single Adventure card/Region/Dragon card.

 

Also have not played each character.  

 

This means the game will always be a new adventure, with anything likely to happen.

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I wear it as a badge of honor that by using all components in all expansions, we have not experience every single Adventure card/Region/Dragon card.

So did I but not anymore. That monster game had one critical flaw - I couldn't play it. Finding both players and 4-5 hours to play proved to be impossible.

Now I use all expansions but only chosen pieces from them.

 

 

game will always be a new adventure, with anything likely to happen.

This is the best feature of the game, the thing that made me fall in love with it.

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Changing the main board mid-game sounds like a super-fiddly procedure. I can't think of it with all faceup cards, minis and parts that have to be moved from one board to the other, maybe with 4 corners wrapped around. Downtime and chance of misplacements are at the highest level.

 

I think the main purpose of the Cataclysm is to give us an alternative board with new challenges and revised spaces. Bludgeon made a good list of things that could have been addressed.

 

I'm surprised that many Talisman players are so reluctant to use only parts of their (now really huge) game. Leaving a piece in the box for a game or two is no blasphemy, it's just providing more place and focus for the parts you are using. My base board is pretty worn after 7 years of games and will definitely appreciate a bit of turnover.

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I am likely to grab it for the characters but I confess I feel nothing for "alternate play" expansions since Talisman tend to have a lot of variation as it is. That said, there are limited ways remaining to expand the game now me thinks. The new board looks good though. Can it be played with the other expansions I guess picking one board or another per game is ok.

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I personally don't have a problem with an A OR B board scenario. 

 

Diversity is actually good for the longevity of the game.  When you get tired of one board, you simply replace with the other.  It allows you to extend the "newness" factor of the game.  We already have this concept with the inner region of the Dragon Expansion.

 

I would hope and expect that characters, cards and other mechanics work with the base game and vice versa, just as all the expansions prior.

 

I have faith.

 

 

Also - I've blown the board up.  You still can't really read it, but gives you a better view of artwork and spaces.

 

2w4is00.jpg

Edited by chemical22

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Some observations about the board:

- desert biome got bigger, from 3 to 6 spaces. There's now also darkland(?) biome with ruins and tavern etc. This might be just pretty art, but it could also mean intruduction of sectors(?) from relic

- graveyard, crags, spaces 2 and 3 clockwise from city (hills & plains?), ruins, hidden valley, cursed glade, runes next to warlock's cave, desert next to temple and castle spaces have textbox in different color and little golden arrows between textbox and the art. Ruins has two arrows. What that signifies no idea.

- graveyard has much less text than chapel, so probably those two spaces are no longer mirroring each other.

- there's less text for results in the temple, city, village, chasm, graveyard

- there seem to be two distinct choices at the tavern. Same with city and village (previously one at tavern, three at city/village)

- woods next to the temple has more bold text than other "draw 1 card" spaces

Edited by Bludgeon

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General: I think right know people are overreacting without even knowing how this expansion is supposed to be used.
But then again, I guess it is kind of a normal reaction also.

 

I'll just patiently wait for more detailed news, like Oberon.
(Okay, not "that" patient maybe...^^)

 

 

@ Bludgeon:

 

Soo much hate for the main board? I don't really get why you think it's so bad...

 

Examples:

- spaces like chasm or black knight should give opportunity to do something except dying -

 

Why? Does every space have to have a possible good thing? Wouldn't that be pretty boring?

 

- I like more how relic handles spaces with healing (heal 1 life for free, more for gold) -

 

You know that you don't always have to pay to be healed in Talisman, right?
(Just saying.)

 

- forest and crags could have card drawing in them and loss of turn is a boring mechanic -

 

It sounds like you want every space to be "draw 2 cards". What's so fun and diverse about that?

 

- praying at graveyard/chapel sucks -

 

It's just meant as an alternative if you don't need their free service.
Besides, only getting something on high rolls fits the belief theme nicely, don't you think?

 

- tavern isn't interesting -

 

What's not to love about gambling, drinking, tavern fights and travels/teleports?
Not enough options for you?

 

- castle isn't interesting -

 

It is just meant to be the healing spot in that region - besides countless cards
that also care for it.

 

- Warlock's useless if you have talisman -

 

I guess you don't own the Sacred Pool Expansion? I recommend it then.
Quests Rewards were a very nice additon to the game. (at least for my group)

 

 

@ chemical22:

 

Thanks. That tavern looks soo much better night-like... love it!!! :)
(I wonder whose house that is, east of it...that was not there before, was it?)

 

---

 

Only 2 options in the city support my theory that the Enchantress has moved out and is one of the new characters. Yeee!!^^

 

 

On the golden arrows: My guess right now would be that they have something to do with the Denizen Deck.

Edited by Lorinor

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@ Bludgeon:

 

Soo much hate for the main board? I don't really get why you think it's so bad...

>>After countless games and looking closely at it I simply came to conclusion that it doesn't serve the game all that well. I'm not saying it's bad, and without changes it's useless, I'm saying there's room for improvement. I definitely don't hate it, otherwise I wouldn't play talisman.

 

Why? Does every space have to have a possible good thing? Wouldn't that be pretty boring?

>> Every space should further the game along in some way, or else why is it in the game?

 

You know that you don't always have to pay to be healed in Talisman, right?

>> yes, I vaguely remember that :P

 

It sounds like you want every space to be "draw 2 cards". What's so fun and diverse about that?

>> Didn't know that's what it sounds like. Wasn't my intention. But there are I think 7 spaces with draw 2 in Relic, and 3 spaces with draw 3. And it works fine.

 

It's just meant as an alternative if you don't need their free service.

>> Sure, but I'd rather have higher risk/reward than nothing/small bonus. Praying at chapel/graveyard is more often than not identical to losing a turn.


Besides, only getting something on high rolls fits the belief theme nicely, don't you think?

>> Temple says no.

 

What's not to love about gambling, drinking, tavern fights and travels/teleports? Not enough options for you?

>> These aren't options, these are random results.

 

It is just meant to be the healing spot in that region - besides countless cards

that also care for it.

>> Every space in outer region that's a healing spot (there are 3) has also other uses. Why shouldn't the castle?

 

I guess you don't own the Sacred Pool Expansion? I recommend it then.

Quests Rewards were a very nice additon to the game. (at least for my group)

>> I meant base game, yes with SP it's cool.

I own all expansions (except pods) and play heavily modified game (probably more modified than original game with cataclysm)

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@ Bludgeon:

 

Since this is going "more" off-topic, I'll send you a pm.

 

---

 

Board:

 

Turing the Chasm into a lava pit seems to have reduced its text.
Wonder if that means its more or less deadly now?

 

I really like the new look of the Graveyard and the Chapel.
Wonder if less text means there are no alignment-based options anymore.

 

Since there is still so much text on the Sentinel space, I guess
you have to fight whatever beast lurks there now??

 

Just noticed the Frozen Spires space in the Inner Region doesn't have much text.
Wonder what your test there is now, without the vampires.

Edited by Lorinor

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I've revisited the previews of the Harbinger expansion and it looks like they were dropping hints of some doom to come, which at the time one assumed was in the contents of that expansion. Now I'm not so sure with hindsight of knowing of this expansion it seems they are more connected that we might at first realise. This expansion may be the first campaign for talisman. Something that happens when playing the normal game with the Harbinger may trigger a campaign mode that forces you to play your subsequent games with the new board until enough terrain locations come through during play to reset the talisman board back to the original one...

Just a thought

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For people discussing price and content, while it is 10 more than other corner board expansions, it clearly has a red oval 'expansion requires base game to play' Since it is a new big board, they need to create new event cards. I will get this at some point, I still need to complete my Talisman collection first. I imagine that the new core board will let them introduce variants to corner boards in 2018, since following their release model, 2017 will have two small box expansions. 

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I wonder if the omens reaching the seventh omen card would trigger the end of Talisman for your group forcing you to play subsequent games with the Cataclysm board until asi said before you are able to bring about the healing of Talisman land. I also wonder if this new expansion will bring in solo play for the fans who have been wanting it

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The Cataclysm? What's next? Mysts of Kung-fu Panda? ;)  (I can't believe noone made this joke yet)

Seriously now. I'm super excited with this new expansion. IF expansion might that be. Seems to me like a reboot. Which is not bad in itself but leaves a question how it will integrate with all the other expansions? I too was thinking about playing both boards - new and old simultaneously. Might be a challange. Anyway, any developement in the Talisman franchise is a good thing.

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