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Xan7o

HLC vs TIE FO- Omega Leader

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Omega leader - Enemy ships that you have locked cannot modify any dice when attacking you or defending against your attacks.

HLC- Immediately after rolling your attack 
dice, you must change all of your critical results to hitresults.


Which one stands up in rules then second? 
did I must change that crits to hits or Omega leader rule dont let me do it? 
Or mayby HLC rule are not qualified as Modify dice when attack

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I don't think that rolling back the crits on an HLC counts as dice modification.

 

If nothing else, the "must" in the HLC text should probably trump Omega Leader's ability. 

Edited by WWHSD

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Omega Leader stops modifying, but HLC is not a modification. The changing of any crits to hits is the price you pay for getting a 4-dice attack with it, and it happens immediately after the roll, but before any modification steps.

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Changing a die result to another die result is a modification per the definition on page 13 of the rules reference. Per the golden rule on page two, "cannot" abilities trump all other effects. I don't think HLC changes crit results when attacking Omega Leader.

Edited by kraedin

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So how does the wording on the HLC work in there, when it says you must change those results? Is must overruled by cannot? Can you use Accuracy Corrector? Because cancelling is not a modification. But then if you cancel the results, you can't add the 2 hit results because adding results is a modification.

 

The HLC is not a normal modification as it takes place before the modification steps. Omega Leader would stop all normal modifications allowed within those steps. I'm pretty sure if you email FFG, they'll tell you that the HLC crit-to-hit change isn't classed as a modification in this case.

 

The general idea with pilot abilities is to make them better than the average pilot. If Omega Leader locked onto a ship with a HLC, his ability suddenly becomes detrimental to himself. I don't think that's the intention with his ability at all.

 

I think if this one makes it to the FAQ, it'll be applied during the modification steps only.

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So how does the wording on the HLC work in there, when it says you must change those results? Is must overruled by cannot? Can you use Accuracy Corrector? Because cancelling is not a modification. But then if you cancel the results, you can't add the 2 hit results because adding results is a modification.

Cannot beats everything.

 

If a card ability or mission effect uses the word “cannot,” that effect is absolute and cannot be overridden by other effects.

 

The HLC is not a normal modification as it takes place before the modification steps. Omega Leader would stop all normal modifications allowed within those steps.

I agree. It isn't a normal dice modification as it has unusual timing. However, it is still dice modification.

 

MODIFYING DICE

Players can modify dice by spending focus, evade, and target lock tokens and by resolving card abilities. Dice can be modified in the following ways:

• Add: To add a die result, place an unused die displaying the result next to the rolled dice. A die added in this way is treated as a normal die for all purposes and can be modified and canceled.

• Change: To change a die result, rotate the die so that its faceup side displays the new result.

• Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and roll it again.

• Dice can be modified by multiple effects, but a die cannot be rerolled more than once.

I'm pretty sure if you email FFG, they'll tell you that the HLC crit-to-hit change isn't classed as a modification in this case.

 

The general idea with pilot abilities is to make them better than the average pilot. If Omega Leader locked onto a ship with a HLC, his ability suddenly becomes detrimental to himself. I don't think that's the intention with his ability at all.

 

I think if this one makes it to the FAQ, it'll be applied during the modification steps only.

I just don't see any support in the rules for that interpretation. Heavy Laser Cannon changes a die result, one of the three types of dice modification, and Omega Leader prevents all dice modification.

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Got this today:

The effect of Heavy Laser Cannon of changing [crit] results to [hit] results is a dice modification and therefore is prevented by Omega Leader’s ability.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

 

 

It's not the response that I was expecting but I'm glad to see that Frank is keeping it straight forward and not creating some other class of psuedo-modification.

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That's interesting, because it creates a case where a pilot's ability actually becomes a negative. It does seem to fit RAW better, but not the response I expected.

 

I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find some others. Off the top of my head, Arvel and Deadeye Nera's abilities kind of become a negative when there is an opposing Biggs around that they'd rather not shoot.  While they aren't pilot abilites, Kagi being on the table makes ST-321 and LRS a liability.

Edited by WWHSD

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I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find some others.

There's others sure, but none I can think of that translate into extra damage, or perhaps more accurately that take what is intended to be a defensive ability can increase the offense of the attacker.

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Frank must have copied and pasted responses today, because I found this in my in-box:

 

Hello Rick,

In response to your rules question:
Rules Question:
Omega Leader says that ships you have locked cannot modify their dice results. But what happens when attacking Omega Leader with a Heavy Laser Cannon? Do the critical results get changed to hit results immediately after rolling as normal? Is this considered a dice modification, or not?

 

The effect of Heavy Laser Cannon of changing [crit] results to [hit] results is a dice modification and therefore is prevented by Omega Leader’s ability.

 

Thanks for playing,

 

Frank Brooks

 

 

On the plus side, we have consistency. :)

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It's not the response that I was expecting but I'm glad to see that Frank is keeping it straight forward and not creating some other class of psuedo-modification.

Instead, it creates some other class of pseudo-dice modification step in the attack.

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Got this today:

The effect of Heavy Laser Cannon of changing [crit] results to [hit] results is a dice modification and therefore is prevented by Omega Leader’s ability.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

 

 

 

Wow.

 

This destroys the thematic effect of the HLC: a powerful cannon with decreased precision - going to do a lot of damage but not precise damage (hence no crits). I don't like, must see in FAQ.

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Got this today:

The effect of Heavy Laser Cannon of changing [crit] results to [hit] results is a dice modification and therefore is prevented by Omega Leader’s ability.

Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks

Associate Creative Content Developer

Fantasy Flight Games

 

 

 

Wow.

 

This destroys the thematic effect of the HLC: a powerful cannon with decreased precision - going to do a lot of damage but not precise damage (hence no crits). I don't like, must see in FAQ.

 

 

But it makes it a whole lot more consistent with the wording of Omega Leader. Remember, gameplay trumps theme.

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I'm sure if you look hard enough you can find some others.

There's others sure, but none I can think of that translate into extra damage, or perhaps more accurately that take what is intended to be a defensive ability can increase the offense of the attacker.

Keyan Farlander shooting at a ship with Rebel Captive produces an unintended stronger attack.

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