What would it take to make the T-65 competitive?

[Dr Zoidberg 3,200]

Just depends on how you fly.  Keep it slow, draw your opponent in, and concentrate fire.  At R2, you're looking at 9 dice coming your way; 13 at R1 with 5 of those with a reduced agility.

[Sithborg 11,662]

I saw a squad with Wedge and a freaking RED SQUADRON make the cut at the Nova Open Championship. I think the X-wing is a bit better than many feel. 

[Endman 249]

The X-Wing surprises you, especially because a lot of people don't play them.

 

I recently lost to a three X-Wing squadron because I stupidly let them draw me into their killzone. Three reds still hurt, no matter what they come from.

[KCDodger 11,103]

I saw a squad with Wedge and a freaking RED SQUADRON make the cut at the Nova Open Championship. I think the X-wing is a bit better than many feel. 

It's basically the baseline ship of the game. The one others should be measured by.

[Sir Orrin 1,908]

I only have two Xwings, they are my 3rd favorite ship to fly (rught behind Awings and Corran). Would 3 work better than 2?

[Ken at Sunrise 2,065]

 

2. The X-wing with I.A. is almost, but not quite, as cost efficient as a naked B-wing.

 

Finally, MJ proves what people who actually fly X-wings with proxied IA have been thinking.

 

 

Just to be sure.  MJ's number are 1.2% difference.  Do you feel this is game breaking?  Will it ever be possible to get to a perfect 100% balance of every ship?

[KCDodger 11,103]

Heavens no.

Because then, everything gets just a little too predictable. Using something in a way that's unexpected just... Goes away.

[Ken at Sunrise 2,065]

 

 

Z-95:               100.0% (reference)

TIE Fighter:         99.3%

B-wing + FCS:        95.3%

Y-wing + TLT + BTL:  94.2%

TIE Adv + ACC:       93.9%

A-wing + Refit:      93.1% 

B-wing:              92.5%

X-wing + I.A:        91.3%

Vader + ATC:         90.4%

X-wing:              86.3%

Y-wing + TLT:        85.7%

Fel + PtL + SD + AT: 85.5%*

 

Disclaimer: analysis still in progress, final numbers subject to change, terms and conditions apply, etc etc etc.

Wait. Can we stop and marvel that the Z-95 is more cost efficient than the TIE Fighter?!

 

Fel+PTL+SD+AT is over costed when compared to and X-Wing and terrible against a Z-95.

 

Looking at the math shouldn't FFG focus on giving Soontir Fel a boost rather then the X-Wing.  In fact the Imperials are simply terrible.  Even the TIE is inefficient compared to the X-95.

 

Is everyone now going to call for a fix to all Imperial Ships?

[Sir Orrin 1,908]

Heavens no.

Because then, everything gets just a little too predictable. Using something in a way that's unexpected just... Goes away.

were you answer me or somthing else?

[pickirk01 1,673]

 

...

 

Is everyone now going to call for a fix to all Imperial Ships?

 

Yes, but its because of the Rebel only upgrades in the Ghost Expansion.

[rilesman 249]

Does Opportunist make a significant difference?  I found Proton Rockets on A-Wings to be fairly devastating and can only image it on an X-Wing ship to be fairly dangerous.

[ficklegreendice 34,363]

 

 

...

 

Is everyone now going to call for a fix to all Imperial Ships?

 

Yes, but its because of the Rebel only upgrades in the Ghost Expansion.

 

 

 

but also yes because the Tie advance fix happened and needed to happen

 

and I'm glad it happened

[KCDodger 11,103]

 

Heavens no.

Because then, everything gets just a little too predictable. Using something in a way that's unexpected just... Goes away.

were you answer me or somthing else?

 

guy above me

[Grivoire 473]

Ah...the X-wing buff discussion again. I can't help but to repost my previous T-65 fix idea here, slightly updated:

 

I really want to see them flying again in the competitive scene. I mean hello, this game's name is X-WING MINIATURES so leaving them out in the cold is kinda sad. I've tried playing with Wedge+BB8+EU+PTL, which is good but honestly he is the only pilot worth considering if you're building a tourney squad. IA is helping other pilots but then T-70 benefits from this as well so I'd say T-70 is still a better choice with only 3 pt differences. We need something that will buff T-65 to the point where it is still inferior in comparison to T-70 but not much so, especially when the more experienced pilot skills (e.g. Wes/Wedge) come to play. Also, the fix needs to be something that is unique only to T-65. As such, I would create this card to make them fun to fly again:

 

Cost 0

Rogue Squadron

Title. X-Wing only (T-70 not eligible)

At the start of the combat phase, if there is at least 1 friendly ships at range 1-2 with the same title, you may assign 1 evade token to your ship.

 

This will pair well with IA. The T-65 is the rebel alliance's workhorse, so combining the title and IA will make them meet the bill: surprisingly durable fighters that will still perish quickly under focus fire. Thematically, Rogue Squadron flies in relatively loose formation while still covering for each other so this also matches the card effect. I'm quite sure the title does not make them overly powerful due to the predictable maneuver dial. Add determination to the ept slot and we'll see X-Wing pilots stay on target under heavy fire.

 

Alternate card effect:

At the start of the combat phase, you may assign 1 evade token to your ship for each friendly ships at range 1 with the same title. You can not assign more than 2 evade tokens per round. 

 

The alternate effect will have them fly in closer formation, but more rewarding at the same time. Still, I prefer the first card effect because the second will make Wedge very dangerous and decimate other fighters in a range 1 stand-off.

 

If FFG needs to release this with named ace pilots they shouldn't have any problem. We still have LOTS like N'rin, Plourr, and even some existing pilots such as Ibtisam. Pair it with TIE Defender fix and release it as "Aces/Heroes of Endor" expansion pack!  no, sorry Defender is not broken. it is beautiful as it is.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Grivoire

[Rakaydos 4,236]

Ah...the X-wing buff discussion again. I can't help but to repost my previous T-65 fix idea here, slightly updated:

It's too much. With Integrated Astromech, the T65 is close to where it needs to be. A title for cheaper/free torps, as weak an upgrade as it would be, would be just about perfect for the Xwing right now.

[Carnor Rex 253]

2. The X-wing with I.A. is almost, but not quite, as cost efficient as a naked B-wing.

 

Finally, MJ proves what people who actually fly X-wings with proxied IA have been thinking.

 

Just to be sure.  MJ's number are 1.2% difference.  Do you feel this is game breaking?  Will it ever be possible to get to a perfect 100% balance of every ship?

Exactly what I got from that. It's so ******* close as to literally not matter especially considering how many other factors exist. Or in other words.. close enough, unless we want yatzee.

[Ken at Sunrise 2,065]

 

2. The X-wing with I.A. is almost, but not quite, as cost efficient as a naked B-wing.

 

Finally, MJ proves what people who actually fly X-wings with proxied IA have been thinking.

 

And I asked if it is possible to make them 100% perfect match?

 

Heavens no.

Because then, everything gets just a little too predictable. Using something in a way that's unexpected just... Goes away.

 

Isn't exactly that what everyone is screaming about?   The X-Wing is 1.2% less efficient than the B-Wing the sky is falling?

[RogueMorgan 34]

Since I recall that the PS2 T-65 X-wing was specifically costed at 21 points as it was thought to be overpowered to allow a squadron of 5 X-wing at 100 points. Now that the error has been realized, what would be so bad about dropping the PS2 to 19 and the PS4 to 20? (The mechanic could be a "Rebel Modifications" Title and Modification card - to consume both of those "slots" - to help reign this approach in from being overpowered.)

 

How would that change things, MajorJuggler?

 

RogueMorgan

[Krewal 27]

Titles, but I think we will have to wait until the rogue one movie hits.  My opinion is that they make progressive titles similar to IG.  Without trying to give specific abilities I think something like this

 

Rogue One

title

x-wing only

(maybe a PS restriction)

rebel alliance only (if you want to exclude T-70)

Any friendly X-wing at range 1-2 blah blah squad based synergy

 

Works on single x-wing but encourages squads

 

Rogue Two

title

x-wing only

requires rogue one title (for squad building purposes only)

(lower PS restriction)

rebel alliance only (blah blah)

some sort of defense buff, blah blah

 

Rogue Three

title

x-wing only

requires rogue one and two titles (blah blah)

(no PS restriction)

blah blah

blah blah ability

 

not sure how to cost them, but the point is that each title rewards progressive use of more x-wings, doesn't buff rookies but I think a few more 1pt astros will help that. 

[Rakaydos 4,236]

 

 

2. The X-wing with I.A. is almost, but not quite, as cost efficient as a naked B-wing.

 

Finally, MJ proves what people who actually fly X-wings with proxied IA have been thinking.

 

And I asked if it is possible to make them 100% perfect match?

 

Heavens no.

Because then, everything gets just a little too predictable. Using something in a way that's unexpected just... Goes away.

 

Isn't exactly that what everyone is screaming about?   The X-Wing is 1.2% less efficient than the B-Wing the sky is falling?

 

The problem is that the Xwing needs to be slightly MRE efficent thanthe Bwing to make up for the Bwing's repositional capability.

It's the same reason Z95s needed to be more efficent than tie fighters- tigh fighters can arc dodge, Zs cannot, so Zs make better jousters.

[Ravncat 1,989]

a cheap or free extra shield, probably as a modification

Maybe a droid that gives an action on the rounds in the joust when you have to koiogran turn.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Ravncat

[Sithborg 11,662]

Honestly, I think the title of this thread should be "What would it take to make the X-wing the gatekeeper". The top of the top. 

[Ravncat 1,989]

Just FAQ it to give it boost. There. Fixed.

I respectfully disagree.

The named pilots and high p.s. Ships enjoy this, but lacking p.s. 1 - the generics don't benefit as much , especially as you dilute the action bar. Engine and bb8-expert handling give repositioning.

The generics need a bigger boost than boost.

[ForceSensitive 2,640]

Strolling through, reading ideas, nodding at some, looking quizzically at others...

Y'know? I miss the days when dice were a bit more... deciding. I never felt that this was strictly a dice game mind you, far from it in fact! But the dice variance used to add such a cinematic, action packed feel. I think that's why I fell in love with X-wing. It was a strategy game first and foremost, but then it was about stacking those actions to line up that great shot so the dice variance was less an issue.

I still play Core set games of TIEs vs X-wings fairly often,I find them the most enjoyable and skill rewarding, albeit a touch less exciting now that I've played them over a hundred times. They were the true dogfighting days to me. How did we get so far from that I wonder. Sure I have my ideas on that. Sometimes very vocally LOL. But not tonight.

Right now though I'm just thinking back to when it was one plan, one move, one action, one shot,... and be glad you held that target lock for three turns after the koigran with this turns focus, pulling into close range on the poor sucker who just koiogrand himself after smoking your buddy with that crazy sniper shot at distance through the asteroid field. now your going to make him pay. ****. I loved that game.

Now it's doing a bunch of silly upgrades effects and seeing how many guaranteed results we can get. They've taken the heart out of the game. Now we just chase percentages instead of chasing around asteroids. When was the last time I even saw a thread here about how to fly against an opponent instead of how to build against one? Have I really soured this much? I suppose I have. Maybe what we need to fix isn't the X-wing. Maybe it's something we can't go back and change this far in.

[AtomicFryingPan 1,825]

They're too expensive for what they bring to the table.