Wampa ability

[Wayne Argabright 1,581]

When attacking, you may cancel all dice results. If you cancel a  crit

 result, deal 1 facedown Damage card to the defender.

 

If the defender has shields does this go through them? or does the defender remove a shield token??  

[banjobenito 1,393]

Straight through baby, straight through! Wampa's BFF are Colzett and Palpatine ...

[Wayne Argabright 1,581]

All hail Wampa the Fat Han killer!!   if he doesn't get one shotted first..lol 

[Ihavebadluck 52]

if wampa cancels two crits is it 2 damage cards or still just one? 

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

if wampa cancels two crits is it 2 damage cards or still just one? 

Just one.

[WWHSD 9,273]

From the FAQ, pg. 2:

 

Suffer Damage vs Deal a Damage Card

An ability or game effect that causes a ship to suffer damage is different from that ship being dealt a Damage card. Suffering damage occurs as described on page 9 of the Rules Reference, and this damage is applied to shields first as normal. A ship that is dealt a damage card is simply assigned that damage card, regardless of how many shields it has remaining. For example, the effect of Proton Bombs deals one faceup Damage card. Damage cards dealt in this way cannot be canceled by evade tokens, redirected by “Draw Their Fire,” etc.

[President Jyrgunkarrd 354]

...Can this be used in conjunction with Palpatine, or does Palpatine's 'dice cannot be modified again' text prevent Wampa from cancelling the crit?

[WWHSD 9,273]

...Can this be used in conjunction with Palpatine, or does Palpatine's 'dice cannot be modified again' text prevent Wampa from cancelling the crit?

 

Canceling is not a modification. If it was a modification any crit that Palpatine granted would automatically hit regardless of how many evades the defender rolled.

[President Jyrgunkarrd 354]

Okay; just as an example:

 

Wampa shoots at my A-Wing. Palpatine is in play.

 

 

Do I have a chance to roll evade dice before Palpatine can grant Wampa the automatic damage card (or rather - are evade dice relevant against this ability)?

[digitalbusker 2,248]

Do I have a chance to roll evade dice before Palpatine can grant Wampa the automatic damage card (or rather - are evade dice relevant against this ability)?

Yes, you have a chance to roll evade dice. No, they aren't relevant.

[MartiniHanks 19]

When does dice canceling occur?

 

Based on how Wampa's ability is worded ("cancel all dice") I assume this has to happen AFTER the "Modify Defense Dice" step of the Combat phase, but before the "Deal Damage" step.

 

If true, then someone might be able to change the crits during the "Modify Attack Dice" step. Not sure what ability grants this - but i bet there is or will be something.

[Slugrage 5,011]

Accuracy Corrected, before the FAQ, read as "When Attacking" to which was added "during the Modify Attack Dice" step. If we extrapolate this to the same wording addition for Wampa, Wampa can cancel all dice during the Modify Attack Dice and if one [KABOOM] roll is cancelled, a faceup card is delivered without any chance of defense or counter.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

The errata that changes AC's timing is not an indication of a similar timing change on all cards that cancel dice results.

Even if it were, and Wampa's ability happened during the Modify Attack Dice segment, the defender gets to modify first, so any crit canceling (from, say, Elusiveness) would happen before the attacker could cancel their crit.

Edited December 23, 2015 by digitalbusker

[Dagonet 7,246]

This is a good point to refresh yourself on the timing steps involved in an attack, because Wampa will make a splash. .

 

• Declare target (this is where R3-A2 triggers for instance, and Tarn)
• Roll attack dice
• Modify attack dice
  • Defender modifies attack dice
  • Attacker modifies attack dice
• Roll Defense dice
• Modify defense dice
  • Attacker modifies defense dice
  • Defender modifies defense dice
• Compare results (where cancellations happen, unless otherwise specified)
• Deal Damage

[MartiniHanks 19]

I think the conclusion has to be that Wampa's ability is decided in one of three places:

1. at the start of the Compare results step (after all dice are finished being modified) - the most favorable place for the Wampa user
2. during the attacker portion of the Modify Defense Dice step - forcing the Wampa user to decide to use the ability based only on the dice being rolled by the defender, not any modifications
3. during the attacker portion of the Modify Attack Dice step - forcing the Wampa user to make a blind decision about using the ability

As digitalbusker shares, in all three cases the defender could prevent the crit with an ability like Elusiveness.

 

Beyond that though, each possible timing option changes how much information the Wampa user gets before making a decision about using the ability. The later in the phase that the Wampa user is allowed to wait, the better.

 

Personally, it seems that option 3 is invalid, because of the wording "all dice" - not just "your dice"

But its still not entirely clear from the wording if the Wampa user gets to wait until after the defender modifies defense dice or not.

[Parravon 5,217]

Option 4: Immediately after rolling attack dice. Which is probably the fairest way to go. I think if it's left until the Compare Results step, the defender can cancel the crit and Wampa's ability.

The most logical timing to me, is either immediately after rolling (forcing a blind choice) or in the Modify Attack Dice step (again forcing a blind choice).

The inclusion of the wording "cancel ALL dice" doesn't make anything any clearer. It actually makes it more questionable.

[MartiniHanks 19]

Option 4: Immediately after rolling attack dice. Which is probably the fairest way to go. I think if it's left until the Compare Results step, the defender can cancel the crit and Wampa's ability.

The most logical timing to me, is either immediately after rolling (forcing a blind choice) or in the Modify Attack Dice step (again forcing a blind choice).

The inclusion of the wording "cancel ALL dice" doesn't make anything any clearer. It actually makes it more questionable.

 

Your proposed option 4 would actually be better than option 3. But i think both are invalid because of the word ALL. Thus the rules question.

 

Turns out the question came up in the forums before - ironically, in this earlier thread, there was some quick agreement that Wampa times at the start of the Compare Results step, but the bulk of the thread was actually on the insane idea that Wampa could get a damage card per crit.

 

Seems like Wampa needs some FFG clarifications...

[Parravon 5,217]

 

Option 4: Immediately after rolling attack dice. Which is probably the fairest way to go. I think if it's left until the Compare Results step, the defender can cancel the crit and Wampa's ability.

The most logical timing to me, is either immediately after rolling (forcing a blind choice) or in the Modify Attack Dice step (again forcing a blind choice).

The inclusion of the wording "cancel ALL dice" doesn't make anything any clearer. It actually makes it more questionable.

 

Your proposed option 4 would actually be better than option 3. But i think both are invalid because of the word ALL. Thus the rules question.

 

Turns out the question came up in the forums before - ironically, in this earlier thread, there was some quick agreement that Wampa times at the start of the Compare Results step, but the bulk of the thread was actually on the insane idea that Wampa could get a damage card per crit.

 

Seems like Wampa needs some FFG clarifications...

 

I don't think "ALL" makes them invalid as such. If you cancel Wampa's dice alone, then there's nothing for the defender to cancel anyway. The defender's roll becomes pointless. You might as well cancel everything, because you're skipping any comparisons and going straight to dealing a Damage card. 

 

In the earlier thread, it was also decided that Wampa's cancelling could not be a dice modification and by that fact alone it must take place in the Compare Results step. This was based purely on the word "cancel" and that any cancellations were completely restricted to the Compare Results step. This same line of logic was proved wrong when Accuracy Corrector was FAQ'd to work in the Modify Attack Dice step. So my bet would be the same is likely for Wampa.

 

It's also not the first time that the wording on a card wasn't quite correct the first time out. In my opinion, changing some of the development team may not have been a good thing as they appear to have lost some logical continuity. In this wave, we seem to have something from nearly every expansion that is throwing up curly questions. This far into the development of the game, should we really be getting cards so regularly that make you ask "How is that supposed to work?"

[MartiniHanks 19]

Agreed- on all your points.

 

But it does come back to the power balance. If Wampa has to decide to cancel or not before defense dice are rolled, the power of his ability is lower than if he gets to cancel after seeing the defender's roll.

[Parravon 5,217]

I think it's situation dependent. If the target has a lot of shields, then it's going to be cancel immediately and deal that Damage card. After all, it's damage to hull that kills a ship, not how many hits you can put onto its shields.

[Stoneface 3,750]

It's early and the coffee hasn't had a chance to kick in yet, so pardon my stupidity. Does the defender get a chance to roll greens? Over on the main board under "Best defensive roll never thrown" the consensus is the defender only has a chance to modify the attacker's dice, Wampa cancels (modifies) and a face down card is dealt. From the above conversations it seems there's room for doubt that it works like that.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

Considering adding "Wampa: Yes, you roll green dice. No, they don't matter." to my sig.

What I think actually happens is this:

Attack dice are rolled.

Attack dice are modified.

Defense dice are rolled.

Defense dice are modified.

In "Compare Results", Wampa happens.

So yeah, you roll defense dice, but they don't matter.

If for some reason we get Word from on high that Wampa happens earlier than that, it still won't matter what you roll on your defense dice, because either they're cancelled by Wampa or the red dice have already been cancelled by Wampa and the damage dealt.

In no case are we going to find out that Wampa's ability happens after you hit (i.e. after greens cancel reds) but before you deal damage, because a: that's when Bossk happens and Wampa's wording is different, and b: Wampa would be very silly then.

The only way I can see it mattering whether the irrelevant greens you rolled are cancelled by Wampa is some future effect that triggers off excess evades (e.g. a laser reflector or something). As it stands, it's sufficient for you to know that yes, you roll greens and no, they aren't relevant.

[Stoneface 3,750]

Then there's no need to roll defense. Your only salvation is in an ability to mod one or more of Wampa's crits.

[Sentinal 150]

Actually it does matter, if the ability were to happen in the "compare results" phase, Wampa would be used as a token sink to draw off 'focus' and 'evade' tokens.

For example: Wampa attacks an X-wing at Range 1 and rolls two 'hits' and a 'crit'. The X-wing counters by rolling defense dice, spend a focus to change an eyeball to a hit, then spend a evade to stop the last hit. Wampa then DECIDES to cancel all dice results and gets to apply a facedown damage. The X-wing winds up spending two tokens for nothing and now has to face the two academy pilots following Wampa with nothing left for them.

Wampa's ability is good, but when it can activate is more important on how he is played.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Sentinal

[Forgottenlore 9,838]

Actually it does matter, if the ability were to happen in the "compare results" phase, Wampa would be used as a token sink to draw off 'focus' and 'evade' tokens.

For example: Wampa attacks an X-wing at Range 1 and rolls two 'hits' and a 'crit'. The X-wing counters by rolling defense dice, spend a focus to change an eyeball to a hit, then spend a evade to stop the last hit. Wampa then DECIDES to cancel all dice results and gets to apply a facedown damage. The X-wing winds up spending two tokens for nothing and now has to face the two academy pilots following Wampa with nothing left for them.

Wampa's ability is good, but when it can activate is more important on how he is played.

 

This is true, but the odds of it happening with any regularity on a 2 attack die ship is pretty slim so its still not really THAT important.