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Issumar2380

Lightsaber vs modern ballistics

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Hi I just recently GM a unique Star Wars Force and Destiny game where the setting is Earth. I took an idea from the End of the world line where the pc's play themselves. Well any way one of the pc's is a police/former military marine. Well he goes on to say that a lightsaber would not be able to deflect modern ballistics we went back and forth but he says he would stand by my decision.But I wanna make sure I make the right call. He states that the bullets travels to fast to be disintegrated. Well I try to find online some information but notta. So what do you guys think? Would a lightsaber be able to deflect modern ballistics??

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Acoording to RAW, it blocks any ranged attack, but only redirects blaster fire.  So blasters, bullets, Force Lightning, rocks, Ewoks, Force-thrown cars, casseroles, the dishes that you bought your wife in the pattern that your ex-wife liked, insults, and the hopes of a nation.  It's all covered.

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The Grand Falloon is right. Reflect would work against Slughtrowers (modern ballistics), but not improved reflect.

 

Narratively, the round could vaporize when passing through the saber's beam. Maybe there's something in our modern world that could be the equivalent to cortosis jackets.

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Why wouldn't a lightsaber be able to deflect ballistic bullets?

 Because them's the rules of space magic.  If you want to get into science one could pointout that lead and copper, the most common materials of modern firearm rounds, are not (significantly) magnetic (presuming a magnetic or similar field is what contains a lightsbaer blade and maybe a blaster bolt too).  But "space magic" will normally suffice.

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You could argue it either way since in the end it's not real science.

 

I personally would never allow a bullet to be reflected back, but only destroyed. What happens when you try to parry a lightsaber with a metal sword?

 

Conversely, there's discussion online about blaster bolts being much slower then slugthrowers with evidence being pulled from the movies themselves. So, you could easily say slugs are too quick to be caught with a lightsaber.

 

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/star-wars-blaster-speed/

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Conversely, there's discussion online about blaster bolts being much slower then slugthrowers with evidence being pulled from the movies themselves. So, you could easily say slugs are too quick to be caught with a lightsaber.

Except you're not reacting to where the projectile is going.  You're using precognition to block the shot before it's even fired.  The Force guides your hands to put the blade where the shot will be.

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You could argue it either way since in the end it's not real science.

 

I personally would never allow a bullet to be reflected back, but only destroyed. What happens when you try to parry a lightsaber with a metal sword?

 

Conversely, there's discussion online about blaster bolts being much slower then slugthrowers with evidence being pulled from the movies themselves. So, you could easily say slugs are too quick to be caught with a lightsaber.

 

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/star-wars-blaster-speed/

 

Except that's completely unfounded.  The bounty hunter Cad Bane used a type of round called "Cortosis Shot" in his slugthrower pistols.  The purpose being (since they were pure cortosis) they could short out a lightsaber on contact, giving a chance that a follow-up shot could penetrate the jedi's defenses.  Using very simple logic, slug-thrower weapons have to be block-able for this to even be an option.

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You could argue it either way since in the end it's not real science.

 

I personally would never allow a bullet to be reflected back, but only destroyed. What happens when you try to parry a lightsaber with a metal sword?

 

Conversely, there's discussion online about blaster bolts being much slower then slugthrowers with evidence being pulled from the movies themselves. So, you could easily say slugs are too quick to be caught with a lightsaber.

 

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/star-wars-blaster-speed/

Blasters per the movies etc go 130 to 135mph. But Jedi also have been known to reflect slugthrowers in Clone wars as Talosx have noted.

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You could argue it either way since in the end it's not real science.

 

I personally would never allow a bullet to be reflected back, but only destroyed. What happens when you try to parry a lightsaber with a metal sword?

 

Conversely, there's discussion online about blaster bolts being much slower then slugthrowers with evidence being pulled from the movies themselves. So, you could easily say slugs are too quick to be caught with a lightsaber.

 

http://www.wired.com/2012/05/star-wars-blaster-speed/

 

Except that's completely unfounded.  The bounty hunter Cad Bane used a type of round called "Cortosis Shot" in his slugthrower pistols.  The purpose being (since they were pure cortosis) they could short out a lightsaber on contact, giving a chance that a follow-up shot could penetrate the jedi's defenses.  Using very simple logic, slug-thrower weapons have to be block-able for this to even be an option.

 

 

Well, the Clone Wars also had Y-wings using simple thrusters take a "short-cut" through a nebula arriving BEFORE a ship using a hyperspace drive.

 

If the OP or his GM wants to make slugthrowers un-blockable in his personal RPG sessions, a single episode of a Clone Wars webcomic shouldn't stop him. 

 

Shooting at a blade purposely with a special round is something different then allowing blocking of rounds that the shooter wasn't trying to aim at the blade. So, Aim and Attack with increased difficulty for Cad Bane's cortosis shot could work while not being forced to allow blocking of slugthrowers.

 

Some middle ground perhaps?:

 

  • Due to increased velocity, Reflect (standard) against a Slugthrower requires 4 Strain (instead of 3).
  • Slugthrowers are more fragile versus a lightsaber then a blaster bolt. They can't be reflected back using Reflect (improved), but simple Reflect absorbs twice as much damage - 4 plus ranks in Reflect x2 (instead of 2 plus ranks).
Edited by Sturn

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Shooting at a blade purposely with a special round is something different then allowing blocking of rounds that the shooter wasn't trying to aim at the blade. So, Aim and Attack with increased difficulty for Cad Bane's cortosis shot could work while not being forced to allow blocking of slugthrowers.

 

I think Cad's tactic stemmed more from the fact that he was aware of how Jedi deal with ranged attacks in that they reflected them. Thus by using cortosis bullets they ran the risk of shorting out their lightsabers by using such a tactic. Not that he purposely shot at the blades, which I'm sure he could, but I don't that was the specific reason.

 

Personally i think they can be reflected but not redirected back or at another target as the slug is destroyed in the action so there is nothing to be redirected.

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Why wouldn't a lightsaber be able to deflect ballistic bullets?

 Because them's the rules of space magic.  If you want to get into science one could pointout that lead and copper, the most common materials of modern firearm rounds, are not (significantly) magnetic (presuming a magnetic or similar field is what contains a lightsbaer blade and maybe a blaster bolt too).  But "space magic" will normally suffice.

 

 

Slugs are metal not energy just like you can't deflect fire with a light saber bullets will melt, but can't be deflected. Now if you used Titanium slugs which would have to be steel or copper jacketed somehow to retain ballastic qualities due to the malleability of the metal then you would have a round which would actually get stronger after being shot through a lightsaber, but would not actually short it out,

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Well, the Clone Wars also had Y-wings using simple thrusters take a "short-cut" through a nebula arriving BEFORE a ship using a hyperspace drive.

 

If the OP or his GM wants to make slugthrowers un-blockable in his personal RPG sessions, a single episode of a Clone Wars webcomic shouldn't stop him. 

 

Shooting at a blade purposely with a special round is something different then allowing blocking of rounds that the shooter wasn't trying to aim at the blade. So, Aim and Attack with increased difficulty for Cad Bane's cortosis shot could work while not being forced to allow blocking of slugthrowers.

 

Some middle ground perhaps?:

 

  • Due to increased velocity, Reflect (standard) against a Slugthrower requires 4 Strain (instead of 3).
  • Slugthrowers are more fragile versus a lightsaber then a blaster bolt. They can't be reflected back using Reflect (improved), but simple Reflect absorbs twice as much damage - 4 plus ranks in Reflect x2 (instead of 2 plus ranks).

 

Well if you're going to invalidate the Clone Wars based on that, we could invalidate at least half the movies based on clear discrepancies.  Point of fact, Yoda traveled from Coruscant to Kamino, mobilized an army, equipped them with tanks and ships, then flew back to Geonosis in under half a day!?  Even though Lucas's comments had already stated travel from the Core to Outer-Rim takes a few days!  The Star Wars universe is full of contradictions.  As people have stated before, science falls to the backside of the plot.

 

I'm not sure if you've read the OPs post.  Because the OP is the GM, and he stated he believes slugthrowers are block-able.  He has a player that is debating it and wanted some evidence to prove that slugthrowers can indeed be blocked.  Every piece of evidence available, whether FFG rules as written and the continuity support that slugthrowers are absolutely block-able.

 

As Mouthymerc pointed out, Cad Bane wasn't trying to shoot a Jedi's lightsaber blade.  He simply shot at the Jedi, expecting them to parry the attack and then short out the Jedi's lightsaber.

 

While you are welcome to imploy a middle ground in your games, the OP wanted confirmation that Reflect is a valid option vs slugthrowers as the rules are written.  The answer is "yes" Reflect works identically between blaster and slugthrower weapons.

 

As a side note on blaster bolt speed.  The films depict blaster bolt speeds for a visual awe factor.  With our current modern technology, we have created particle beam weapons with velocities several times that of ballistic firearms.  However, depicting those speeds on screen would be nearly impossible (to fast for the frame rates).  While we really can't apply hard-science to Star Wars, I've always considered the blaster bolts on the big screens to be significantly slowed for our enjoyment.

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Conversely, there's discussion online about blaster bolts being much slower then slugthrowers with evidence being pulled from the movies themselves. So, you could easily say slugs are too quick to be caught with a lightsaber.

Except you're not reacting to where the projectile is going.  You're using precognition to block the shot before it's even fired.  The Force guides your hands to put the blade where the shot will be.

Simply "liking" this post is not enough.

Today, modern masters of certain Japanese martial arts can dodge, block, or catch arrows that are fired at them. And they can even dodge the aim of people using firearms.

And that's just pure talent, skill, and training. It is not a stretch to imagine that they might be able to do even better if they could tap into something like The Force.

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The steely eyed Jedi stared down the US Marine. He had dealt with soldiers before, and the ones on this planet lacked modern technology.

 

This planet's civilization had not yet mastered interstellar travel, and they lacked any energy weapons of merit. He had been to various other parts of the planet and cut down a variety of fighters. All of them had used primitive slug-throwing ballistic weapons. It had been easy enough for him to sense the aggression and sunder the rounds from the air before. Even the weapons that could create a constant stream of metal bullets, he had been able to predict and deflect, though the random nature of the burst had proved challenging.

 

The unlucky warrior of Earth leveled his weapon at the Jedi's chest, and then did a strange pumping motion on the longarm he held.

 

"What kind of weapons is that?" asked the Jedi in the crude form of basic that seemed to be favored on this planet.

 

"It's called a shotgun, you communist bastard." replied the Marine as he spit out the toothpick he'd been chewing on.

 

"A shotgun? What a ridiculously redundant name, the foolishness of this planet's inhabitants nev--- BAAAM!

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Shotgun meet Saber Ward. Saber Ward wins...

 

If you don't know Saber ward is where you spin the light saber in front of you creating a shield which stops pretty much anything by melting the low temperature lead pellets into vapor when they meet the plasma of the light saber blade. To get past a light saber with bullets you would need a metal with an extremely high melting point like say Titanium....

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If you don't know Saber ward is where you spin the light saber in front of you creating a shield which stops pretty much anything by melting the low temperature lead pellets into vapor when they meet the plasma of the light saber blade. To get past a light saber with bullets you would need a metal with an extremely high melting point like say Titanium....

IIRC, a lightsaber is basically a plasma field encased by a magnetic bottle. That plasma field burns at nearly 10,000 degrees, or about the temperature of the surface of our sun.

Titanium has a melting point many thousands of degrees lower than that. And it will turn into a gas at only a couple thousand degrees higher. At those temperatures, basically everything burns. That’s why a plasma furnace is so bloody efficient.

Well, at least everything at a pressure reasonably close to 1.0 ATM. Compress stuff down enough, like you get by the gravity of the sun when you’re at the core, then maybe there might be some materials that wouldn’t melt, but you’d be hard-pressed to find such materials on planet Earth.

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If you are trying to say saber ward sets the temperature of the air to a very high degree to melt pellets that are traveling simultaneously through different areas when the saber couldn't normally be in more than 1 spot at a time...

 

Then the Jedi would set himself on fire if he ran forward while holding a lightsaber.

 

But I don't know, saber ward does sound pretty bad ass when done by a master jedi.

 

 

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Edited by Vulf

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"It's called a shotgun, you communist bastard." replied the Marine as he spit out the toothpick he'd been chewing on.

"A shotgun? What a ridiculously redundant name, let me see it. *force pull*

Interesting, thank you.

The Jedi walks away, unwilling to harm the primative, non-threatening being, anxious to study this archaic wonder of civilizations past.

Fixed it for you. Edited by Lifer4700

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Do you know what happens when you pull a gun someone is holding while their finger is on the trigger?

 

And how do you know our earthworms don't create force dead-zones the way Ysalmir's do? Have you ever seen anyone on our planet use the force while within 3 meters of an earthworm?

 

And Qui-gon Jin was an alcoholic.

Edited by Vulf

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