Engineering Command and Token Question

[eliteone 643]

Hi all, so recently I learned my friends and I had been playing the Engineering Command incorrectly - I did not realize that those points do not replenish with you round to round. 

 

I searched through the forums and learned that not resolving the Engineering Dial allows you to obtain the token (without spending the points) - my question is: if I spend all my Engineering Value Points but still have an Engineering Token does that token still count for half (rounded up) or only when I have not yet spent any Engineering Value points?

 

Also it's not clear to me, but we had been playing where you can combine any Command Dial with any Token - so for example, Concentrate Fire + Navigate, but can you only play the tokens when you activate the Command Dial of the same type?

 

Thanks!

[Drasnighta 26,832]

When the command dial is revealed, you immediately have to choose wether you use that Command Dial for its Full Effect, or Turn that Dial into a Token.

If you already have one of those Tokens, and you create a Second one, since you cannot have two Tokens of the same Type, one is going to be lost if you don't use it.

 

If you have the Token, you can certainly flip the Dial, and say, "I am going to use the Engineering Dial", and NOT spend the Token, thusly preserving the Token for Future Use, and gaining the Dial's base standard.

 

 

 

Page 4, RRG "Commands"

• A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command. For example, a ship can increase its speed twice by spending a M command dial and a M command token.

 

 

- CAN, not Must, Does, or Has No Choice But To.

 

 

The Rule is in place to stop someone from activating a Dial, getting 3 engineering, popping one shield back and holding onto the remaining point so that, next turn, when they pop another Dial, and get 3 engineering, they can use the leftover to bring two shields back.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Drasnighta

[eliteone 643]

When the command dial is revealed, you immediately have to choose wether you use that Command Dial for its Full Effect, or Turn that Dial into a Token.

If you already have one of those Tokens, and you create a Second one, since you cannot have two Tokens of the same Type, one is going to be lost if you don't use it.

 

If you have the Token, you can certainly flip the Dial, and say, "I am going to use the Engineering Dial", and NOT spend the Token, thusly preserving the Token for Future Use, and gaining the Dial's base standard.

 

 

 

Page 4, RRG "Commands"

• A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects. Doing so counts as a single resolution of the command. For example, a ship can increase its speed twice by spending a M command dial and a M command token.

 

 

- CAN, not Must, Does, or Has No Choice But To.

 

 

The Rule is in place to stop someone from activating a Dial, getting 3 engineering, popping one shield back and holding onto the remaining point so that, next turn, when they pop another Dial, and get 3 engineering, they can use the leftover to bring two shields back.

 

Drasnighta, thank you kindly for the reply, your answer did not address my question(s). 

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Let me try again.

" if I spend all my Engineering Value Points but still have an Engineering Token does that token still count for half (rounded up) or only when I have not yet spent any Engineering Value points?"

 

Your token is only worth half of the Engineering Value when you choose to spend it.

 

You cannot spend the Dial, Resolve it, and THEN decide to use the Token to add more points, because that violates the rule about the Single Resolution of the Command.

 

(

 

 

Also it's not clear to me, but we had been playing where you can combine any Command Dial with any Token - so for example, Concentrate Fire + Navigate, but can you only play the tokens when you activate the Command Dial of the same type?

 

 

You can activate Tokens at the appropriate time.  For almost all of them, that is at the same time as when the Dial would be...

For example, you Flip your Dial, you have a Concentrate Fire Command.  You elect to use the Dial this turn, and not turn it into a Token.

 

Immediately, you elect to spend your Squadron Token, and your Engineering Token, because the triggering time to spend them is the Command Phase where you are right now.

You can then Activate a Squadron and gain (and spend) your Engineering Points, in either order, completely before the other, as they happen simultaniously, and you can choose the order as it is your turn.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Drasnighta

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Hopefully, that Clarifies...  I admit, I don't know what I was actually reading when I got to your question, and I did swing and miss...  Always admit my mistakes

[Smuggler 556]

Hi all, so recently I learned my friends and I had been playing the Engineering Command incorrectly - I did not realize that those points do not replenish with you round to round.

I'm not sure if I'm reading you right here, but it sounds like you think you can only spend your enginering value once during the entire game?

The enginering value doesn't change, and each time you resolv a repair command (the command is actualy called Repair, not Engineering, not that it maters) you get the full enginering value in points to spend (or half if it's a token) regardles of how many points you have used in previous turns.

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

And you can't save the points for future orders.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

And you can't save the points for future orders.

Nope, once you spend the dial or token any unspent points disappear.

[ovinomanc3r 4,437]

And you can't save the points for future orders.

Nope, once you spend the dial or token any unspent points disappear.

I didn't ask but thanks anyway

[DerErlkoenig 975]

And you can't save the points for future orders.

Nope, once you spend the dial or token any unspent points disappear.

I didn't ask but thanks anyway

Sorry, you said "can't", I read "can".

My own error.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

 

Immediately, you elect to spend your Squadron Token, and your Engineering Token, because the triggering time to spend them is the Command Phase where you are right now.

You can then Activate a Squadron and gain (and spend) your Engineering Points, in either order, completely before the other, as they happen simultaniously, and you can choose the order as it is your turn.

Slight point of order thing, you wouldn't spend both and then pick which to resolve first. You'd pick which to spend (as the ability to do so with either shares the same timing point), fully resolving the effect (and anything generated by it) and then have the option to trigger the other and resolve it's effect.

The triggering of and resolution of effects are tied together, you wouldn't trigger an effect (not resolve it) trigger another (not resolve it) and then go back to finish the first.

[eliteone 643]

 

Hi all, so recently I learned my friends and I had been playing the Engineering Command incorrectly - I did not realize that those points do not replenish with you round to round.

I'm not sure if I'm reading you right here, but it sounds like you think you can only spend your enginering value once during the entire game?

The enginering value doesn't change, and each time you resolv a repair command (the command is actualy called Repair, not Engineering, not that it maters) you get the full enginering value in points to spend (or half if it's a token) regardles of how many points you have used in previous turns.

 

 

 

You were reading me right. According to the rules reference, page 4, line 3 - "After a ship resolves a Repair command, it loses any remaining engineering points. Engineering points do not persist from round to round" - so it's like a one shot deal. That's why I was wondering if you needed to use the token along with a resolved Repair Command Dial. But I don't you would have to, from reading everyone's responses. 

 

Since you'd have to earn a Repair Token and can only have one of them, it would be useless to earn if you choose to resolve it during a round in the game where you had no Engineering points left. 

[Smuggler 556]

 

 

Hi all, so recently I learned my friends and I had been playing the Engineering Command incorrectly - I did not realize that those points do not replenish with you round to round.

I'm not sure if I'm reading you right here, but it sounds like you think you can only spend your enginering value once during the entire game?

The enginering value doesn't change, and each time you resolv a repair command (the command is actualy called Repair, not Engineering, not that it maters) you get the full enginering value in points to spend (or half if it's a token) regardles of how many points you have used in previous turns.

 

 

 

You were reading me right. According to the rules reference, page 4, line 3 - "After a ship resolves a Repair command, it loses any remaining engineering points. Engineering points do not persist from round to round" - so it's like a one shot deal. That's why I was wondering if you needed to use the token along with a resolved Repair Command Dial. But I don't you would have to, from reading everyone's responses. 

 

Since you'd have to earn a Repair Token and can only have one of them, it would be useless to earn if you choose to resolve it during a round in the game where you had no Engineering points left. 

 

Ah, but let's read the rules a gain. A ship has an engineering value, not engineering points.

"Gain engineering points equal to the ship’s engineering value and spend them on the following repair effects"

So while the points you don't spend during the resolution are lost, the value is still there and ready to be used to gain new points next time you resolv a repair command.

[eliteone 643]

Hi all, so recently I learned my friends and I had been playing the Engineering Command incorrectly - I did not realize that those points do not replenish with you round to round.

I'm not sure if I'm reading you right here, but it sounds like you think you can only spend your enginering value once during the entire game?

The enginering value doesn't change, and each time you resolv a repair command (the command is actualy called Repair, not Engineering, not that it maters) you get the full enginering value in points to spend (or half if it's a token) regardles of how many points you have used in previous turns.

You were reading me right. According to the rules reference, page 4, line 3 - "After a ship resolves a Repair command, it loses any remaining engineering points. Engineering points do not persist from round to round" - so it's like a one shot deal. That's why I was wondering if you needed to use the token along with a resolved Repair Command Dial. But I don't you would have to, from reading everyone's responses.

Since you'd have to earn a Repair Token and can only have one of them, it would be useless to earn if you choose to resolve it during a round in the game where you had no Engineering points left.

Ah, but let's read the rules a gain. A ship has an engineering value, not engineering points.

"Gain engineering points equal to the ship’s engineering value and spend them on the following repair effects"

So while the points you don't spend during the resolution are lost, the value is still there and ready to be used to gain new points next time you resolv a repair command.

Ugh, I need a reference to the reference book. That makes a lot of sense though, its nice to know I havent been playing wrong.

And treating tokens (unless it matches dial) as seperate events to resolve before you try to do aynthing else, it makes the whole ship actovation a much bigger deal.

Thanks all for the responses!

Edited December 13, 2015 by eliteone

[DerErlkoenig 975]

Not all tokens resolve at the beginning of the activation. Only squadron, and repair tokens resolve (if you choose to resolve them) right after you reveal your dial.

Concentrate Fire, and Navigate tokens resolve during their normal steps.