Jump to content
vyrago

Villains of the Aturi Cluster?

Recommended Posts

I've been reworking the rebel AI, but I havnt copied the sidebar text over.

 

 

Enemy  AI:

Jm0kbDR.pngXK8pwiA.png

19FTwiK.pngcRS26qb.png

 

When a Ywing uses a maneuver with a (bomb) icon, it drops a bomb before moving.

 

Rebels always lose inititive

Targeting priority is "In Arc", "Furthest within range 3", "Closest"

Action trees:

*) Awings get free focus

1) If Strike Target is in range/arc, Target lock (except Awing)

2) **Boost/barrelroll to dodge arc (if actions are available)

3) If no enemy has a shot on it, Target lock (closest in arc or furthest within range 3)

4) **Boost/barrel roll to get a shot (if actions are available)

5) Focus (Awing Evades)

 

When an Ywing or Bwing is shields down with 3 or less hull, (or Xwing/HWK at 2 hull, or Awing at 1 hull) it will attempt to hyperspace just before it shoots. Roll 2 red dice, if it gets 2 hits or crits (or focus if it has a  focus token), it escapes to hyperspace- remove it from the field, nobody gets kill XP. If it fails to hyperspace, the ship resumes firing as normal, and will try again next turn.

Still so many K-turns on the Xwings. I thought SaltedDiamond explained it was K-turning more than anything else (which is terribly dumb) for the games he tried this AI movement chart.

The Ai chart you have though it good. Lokks very solid,especially with the free Focus on the Awing...it really needs the free focus!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think changing Xwing to rebel zs for this early game might be the easiest way to fix it without having to remove tls or completely restructure. I'm going to run a play test like that either tonight or tomorrow

I guess Zs just aren't as iconic for me as the other Rebel ships, so I wasn't planning on adding any to this campaign (though I think it'd make sense for Imp vs Scum campaign). I might be willing to adjust if there's a big clamoring for Zs, but I guess I just don't see that happening.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I think changing Xwing to rebel zs for this early game might be the easiest way to fix it without having to remove tls or completely restructure. I'm going to run a play test like that either tonight or tomorrow

I guess Zs just aren't as iconic for me as the other Rebel ships, so I wasn't planning on adding any to this campaign (though I think it'd make sense for Imp vs Scum campaign). I might be willing to adjust if there's a big clamoring for Zs, but I guess I just don't see that happening.

 

That's why they would only show up in the first few missions, just for balance. That even what they did in the only tie fighter video game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I think changing Xwing to rebel zs for this early game might be the easiest way to fix it without having to remove tls or completely restructure. I'm going to run a play test like that either tonight or tomorrow

What are you going to do for a z AI ?

 

I'm pretty sure I have found z AI that someone made, maybe on a different thread. I'll post it when I get home tonight if I have it on my computer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I think changing Xwing to rebel zs for this early game might be the easiest way to fix it without having to remove tls or completely restructure. I'm going to run a play test like that either tonight or tomorrow

What are you going to do for a z AI ?

 

I'm pretty sure I have found z AI that someone made, maybe on a different thread. I'll post it when I get home tonight if I have it on my computer.

 

Z AI is pretty simple-it's basically an Xwing that cannot hyper out, and a slightly less useful Kturn.

 

One of these days I'm going to get off my ass and do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone made a -95 AI along with the Firespray a while back, they were in blackand white, but otherwise were fine.

They are on the forums, perhaps under a scum and villany themed Aturi Cluster thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure how it's possible... but you're right, it needs to be done. And I'll do it! Gives me something to work on. And again, if the TIEs are firing first (which will happen very quickly after the first mission, with XP and upgrading PS), they'll be stripping Focus tokens off of Rebels (and the Imperial player can direct who his wingmates attack and fire at, so he can decide to split fire to rip off Focus tokens if he thinks it's more important than focus firing down one ship).

 

Rebel ships will start the campaign with a high difficulty, but XP will rein them in. Players will get more wingmates with higher PS and some Upgrades, or they can load up on upgrades / ordinance for themselves. Play strategically; use obstacles, drop bombs, throw around some ion tokens. There are more of you than there are of them. The first mission will be hard (and as I've said, I can already do some things to balance it out some), but things will get better as the campaign progresses.

 

I'd go for increasing the difficulty level later as you upgrade as well and make it easier in the beginning. If the first missions are overwhelming people lose a lot and will die. I assume dying is the same as in HotAC, so that will either waste XP gained in this mission or lose upgrades or potentially be entirely dead (new character). If initial missions are too hard, gaining xp will not be quick (I imagine there also a few missions where you go out with less xp than you went in with, e.g. getting 2xp for damage, then losing upgrade for 4) so it will take even longer before the strength evens out with the rebel forces.

 

Since TIEs are only 3 hull one bad evade roll can already mean the death when attacked by 3 dice (standard x and b, distance1 a and y attack). This is totally unlike in HotAC where you can usually survive 1-2 bad evades as you have higher starting hull and enemies have less attack dice, and after that you can still decide to flee. With a TIE you might even be dead before you get that chance to flee, with more enemies focusing fire it is even more likely that you are dying quick. I think it is best to go easier on the difficulty in the first missions and then increase it later once people have settled into something that doesn't potentially die at first round of combat.

 

I'd also suggest going with Z-95s and Y-Wings as starter enemies, then replace the Z-95 with X-Wings and add B-Wings and A-Wings later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, to make y-wings easier in the starting missions, don't equip them with a turret or torpedo upgrade. The TIEs will still taje time to burn one down.

Actually giving the only the Ion turret and locking the turret forwards with the BTL title, migh be the best...then it would be limited to range 1-2, and not really cause much more damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd go for increasing the difficulty level later as you upgrade as well and make it easier in the beginning. If the first missions are overwhelming people lose a lot and will die. I assume dying is the same as in HotAC, so that will either waste XP gained in this mission or lose upgrades or potentially be entirely dead (new character). If initial missions are too hard, gaining xp will not be quick (I imagine there also a few missions where you go out with less xp than you went in with, e.g. getting 2xp for damage, then losing upgrade for 4) so it will take even longer before the strength evens out with the rebel forces.

 

Since TIEs are only 3 hull one bad evade roll can already mean the death when attacked by 3 dice (standard x and b, distance1 a and y attack). This is totally unlike in HotAC where you can usually survive 1-2 bad evades as you have higher starting hull and enemies have less attack dice, and after that you can still decide to flee. With a TIE you might even be dead before you get that chance to flee, with more enemies focusing fire it is even more likely that you are dying quick. I think it is best to go easier on the difficulty in the first missions and then increase it later once people have settled into something that doesn't potentially die at first round of combat.

 

I'd also suggest going with Z-95s and Y-Wings as starter enemies, then replace the Z-95 with X-Wings and add B-Wings and A-Wings later on.

Well, I'm in a tricky position due to a couple of factors:

  • I don't want the players to win every mission (if they lose some, their path through the winding campaign structure is much more interesting since they have to make 2-3 laps through it before the campaign ends). Losing too often -as pointed out- will hamper XP, leading to a situation where it's hard to win down the line.
  • I do want the players to have fun, which means getting 1-shot can't be a normal occurrence.
  • I don't want the rules changing too much as the campaign goes on (use this X-wing Template now, and then switch to this one after your 5th missions).
  • I want the Rebel ships to remain consistent (as mentioned above) and dangerous, even as the players level up their abilities.

When originally designing it, I was going for overall campaign balance, rather than tight mission balance (like Josh Derksen was able to produce), because I don't have the playtesters on my end to get that balance. So, some missions will be about even (based on rolls), some will be all but lost causes, and some will be pretty easy. Overall, statistically, it should just about even out, hopefully with a slight edge to the players, since they get several benefits the Rebels don't (initial placement after Rebel/terrain placement, etc.). I wanted wins, losses, and a variety of difficulty levels.

 

Now, that's not as popular. But it was much less fine-grained, and a much easier goal to achieve. I'm still going to tweak the missions based on player feedback (as I've shown in this thread), but I explicitly don't want the Imperials to win every mission (though they should probably have a shot, in theory).

 

It's a hard balance. I hope people are open to a middle ground, because that's likely the best I'll be able to achieve. I want to take the long term into account (overarching campaign balance with wins and losses), but I don't want to neglect the short term (individual mission balance).

 

Also, to make y-wings easier in the starting missions, don't equip them with a turret or torpedo upgrade. The TIEs will still taje time to burn one down.

Actually giving the only the Ion turret and locking the turret forwards with the BTL title, migh be the best...then it would be limited to range 1-2, and not really cause much more damage.

 

I could swap the Y-wing ordinance for something else. Heck, for the built-in upgrades on the ships, I could just leave them all off, just as in Heroes. I just felt they'd like a certain bite if I did that, and be mostly bags of hull and shields.

 

I still think someone should try running the first mission with 40-50XP for everyone. Hopefully that's what pass 2 through the campaign would look like (because you will end up replaying Galactic Struggle 1-2 more times). You'd have enough for some nice upgrades, a better ship yourself, and some wingmates (with upgrades), depending on how you wanted to spend the XP. Sure, you might lose Galactic Struggle on your first pass (or get decent to good Attack and Defense dice rolls and win), but how different will it be on your second pass? That is just as important to me.

Edited by Jameson Courage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've made a set of EPT Upgrade cards for all the Imperial Pilot abilities for HotAC use.  They're pretty straightforward, the one thing you may notice is there are two versions of Tetran Cowall and Krassis Trelix.  One version of Tetran's card (Cartwheel) has the standard PS value and cost based on the actual pilot card, the other has the cost reduced to bring it in line with Countess Ryad's much better and lower priced ability.

 

Krassis's ability is essentially predator for secondary weapons, but it costs 7 points.  I changed it on the alt version to actually be useful making it force your opponent to reroll a defense die instead.

 

I tried to post pictures, I always get an error about file extensions on this forum unfortunately.  Here's the link (Use this for printer quality files): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/70vhzsshg92eapg/AAB0JXnSXi38MmgmbPACuGJba?dl=0

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/uMj5MB4mWoy2MXbOE52pBUUQiX339uofp4Ufy1xLYPYhDeo20hn9QcNHDO4mZ_VMdVFOe3Hv_CEwBlF8Iit_ld8eddvvICNkTqVPIVObIOjTZp5v_wIwdU-g-RkeBmqpV6FHiWFMu63uA7T0dv39-B_1WQLGO-OzS7gVxJq0uH2OMlTYbbwEtXCwb4Q9U3GYV2iG8ZlXB3UQU7woOE-9N9H7kuy_yxSXUciASj8iGGHGK6RvvN-5aJ8J7UJimzp_SaYIQ9UraYYd1Eub-OhvDO1BWAuMKk2Z8uaLFyEM4DKsaicSBgptMUAACh9iPF0aOezMINpUgESK_Db4GOrG5882VYnJfRMkWh2apQ8bSphhqRNBya9HKxN7zQKinnZYZ-Wp3lDH7itWZ1iKyxN23O2-E-g4-2JYIvGi5jol1WIY27lJemPte_8Nl0b-xI_R2bqPrBscBwxd3716rZyhtMruEdnrrroB-V0LiHcpccx5fGXo4wJ6WD-gdrtn4Nyd89gyShWHMcA15GpzddnY8CNb8bsCxbtRrrBjPkPgfVQvFkygac0VMLYswWJlbZbWg4XJLrGuwCvA3EizQlPUms1CY5eP2fI=w483-h741-no

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X5OEmc7ijA_F4RkhvTesHJzkb47IfGuUpWS9MFlfUvh18ciirIwOEV9yJB3ny0QO4sv_UYwA2yx0oZ2Nab5Ai6yWkgX2uC_TRBqwYBj_ozsyXYnA1F5RWzkuVTGpVJ7-7DAGWyKKCNt4i9HR5TIQyMyzl33kr7USXIZFmWAiJ84jbebTC8ZC_OpZUL8tX5MnLAVIiLthYTQshVas9Jn-cJqgEkKsXmz85PJRgQ3gWeEhTabmgeACDamwWT-PYEljppafheF3WgROPRwRR9qBjzk5I49vew_-PU_u0rcgg00s8TS7uB5GBJqYBRhMyA8BdZk4ZS3_4bY21QiKpJoelFqAO0L_QKO4hT115zM9cbo6c5ttEvwWr12Lmm6CHYBL0a9Vb-SAR1ndrm6zTenzA85f9cpEtwJXBBvpDBca07u8qOamLGJAR1g4Gu2wVuO6cE85ZZWQ4hMI9XnWTbRXBIMJ0iroq_ELaW9b4LGXszfudjA063jxM0XqUL7ymT4mtobtuiObUbjz3ojewWPt7f0eEi2tPbOuYB5HQfSzoHKE9-NVDg4RQ4Q76cWuWZdp5wklGs-5UWWyDA9Ar42JEefhnI1YOfc=w483-h741-no

 

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VciM_1xkvCdjaiiHFfAvUmyh4qIZUh-UO3rLk_FUbM7cURFEVjvKIJFVg0y8u9kVIRga1RteSCCMBUgrfxFU8-YsKbaTS6IBQEji9h6dngoXL07g1iEN49KblsB4hD8cDFUDomv-lg4sSgnrn5Aa2IdcCPgy4lp-fqgkoW9FcE8qNTXV6--QfAeAvYz0a_zmZ8nfz6Ikh5Z9gH1zH96_fQ_IEMxn6-IjNX1L0OgtAvQXIODyMVDOJy1zdEW75MFOBrmYonxaaiPQEvZumHA5zLmK59cbu9ZACr0-l09EvIQkDjabC6S3hHASVDzdYefn6id8ZGbMWjrr4V5oljb_vUCLg82asp27Fz-RDGMutZO9IGiZF4g6U5cm_MDYt3Cg_uZJ2z6w3LP8kXYQfKDsPTrwnA_mzOZliBVTWYTUCaNf4t2c3qiebO927tJIiMbio8j8zEFZXJT_s8zdzYsRXoBIMz5zIpwHAeTK3JWItGGYWMrlxObv9KXLofHmxSsBs2k9nhM_Hn1S3HrvJJe2EJnf0xLIGJfxSWE3zyWCYx5Xl66jyuNEINqQ52S6C_VB7JAgOmWOd5XBizjf1tPTBxywoc9EvfM=w483-h741-no

 
Edited by Green Squad Leader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've made a set of EPT Upgrade cards for all the Imperial Pilot abilities for HotAC use.

 

May I ask why some of them have the unique dot and the rest does not? How did you determine what ability gets the unique dot?

Good effort!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've made a set of EPT Upgrade cards for all the Imperial Pilot abilities for HotAC use.

 

May I ask why some of them have the unique dot and the rest does not? How did you determine what ability gets the unique dot?

Good effort!

 

Ah, that's because I used my laptop for a bunch of these and I totally forgot to click it.  I'll need to fix that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've made a set of EPT Upgrade cards for all the Imperial Pilot abilities for HotAC use.

 

May I ask why some of them have the unique dot and the rest does not? How did you determine what ability gets the unique dot?

Good effort!

 

Ok I've fixed that issue, they all now have the unique card dot.  I've also added PDF's which should already be set up for printing purposes.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/70vhzsshg92eapg/AAB0JXnSXi38MmgmbPACuGJba?dl=0 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so based on feedback (and some testing myself), I've changed some things in the PDFs for balance and clarity. Updates to Version 0.2 (I've already sent PDF updates to the people who sent me their private email, and I'm currently waiting for updated files to load to BGG):

 
(1) Updated icons mostly away from ships to other symbols to cut down on confusion.
 
(2) Updated the balance on some missions based on very limited feedback. I will change this more thoroughly as I get more personal experience and more feedback.
 
(3) Changed how Twists are decided, so that they are no longer random: As of now, each mission has 1 of 2 possible Twists, and the twist is chosen based on how the current mission is going (unique to each mission). For example, in the first mission, if you destroy an entire Rebel Squad and do not let any Rebels escape, you get a beneficial twist (Imperial reinforcements). Otherwise, a bad twist happens (Rebel reinforcements).
 
(4) Scaled many missions to better fit the number of players. They will likely need to be further tweaked, but some didn't scale at all (like having to destroy an entire Space Station -6 emplacements- with 1 player or 6 players). Like everything, I will change this depending on my experience and the feedback I get.
 
(5) Added escape edge rules for when there is no player setup area that touches an edge (if you end the mission in the player setup area, you count as escaped).
 
(6) I took off the free player EPT slot. That shouldn't have been there.
 
(7) Moved the Twist section to the Imperial Campaign Rules PDF, so that it can more easily be referenced with the Missions PDF opened separately.
 
(8) Made some clarification in wording on a few pages. (Changed "ion cloud" to "ion storm"; cleaned up the wording on the Guardian Angel mission; the wingmate cheat sheet now lists all ordinance and modifications for Bombers and Interceptors; the Defender now counts as 2 Imperial ships in addition to you losing a wingmate slot as originally intended; etc.)
 
(9) Potentially a couple other things I've neglected to mention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the updates in the email, that was very kind of you. Especially since I hadnt seen your new post yet.

No problem! Figure that's the fastest way out while I wait for wait for them to load up at BGG (they're mostly up now, though).

 

As a side note: the Interceptor has 1 extra mod slot, for anyone looking to switch to it. It's fixed on my end already (it has 1 less than what is currently shown), and will be fixed in Version 0.3.

Edited by Jameson Courage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, I have also started an imperial coop campaign. Files here

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/135532/defenders-empire

This campaign sees you start as an academy tie fighter pilot and gradually work up through the ranks getting better ships as you do.

Where I am at so far:

Entry mission looking good, testing done with 2-4 players, 5-6 players may need tweeks.

Player pilot cards done

AI movement cards for the X wing and z95 done

There is a 1st draft for the first mission arc up as well with missions under testing

I am currently testing the first mission in the arc, when done I will set it up in the same format as the entry mission.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys, I have also started an imperial coop campaign. Files here

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/135532/defenders-empire

This campaign sees you start as an academy tie fighter pilot and gradually work up through the ranks getting better ships as you do.

Where I am at so far:

Entry mission looking good, testing done with 2-4 players, 5-6 players may need tweeks.

Player pilot cards done

AI movement cards for the X wing and z95 done

There is a 1st draft for the first mission arc up as well with missions under testing

I am currently testing the first mission in the arc, when done I will set it up in the same format as the entry mission.

Very cool! Looks pretty nice, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks James

 

Just to let you all know I have 2 files pending upload over on BGG

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/135532/defenders-empire

 

The 1st is an updated AI movement card set - i missed out flee mechanics on the 1st upload.  This now includes X-Wing, A-Wing, Y-Wing, Z-95.

 

2nd is Defenders of the Empire v1.1  The next mission has been added and a bit of extra info at the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me again

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/135532/defenders-empire

I now have AI movement uploaded for

X Wing

Z95

A Wing

Y Wing

B Wing

HWK-290

YT-1300

The first 4 missions are going to be a set group, this will allow players enough time to build xp to get a new ship before progressing to others sectors. Pilots do eject from a tie fighter and the 1st 4 missions are all in friendly territory, this will help with pilot progression as it is common for a fighter to get shot down in a mission.

I am currently testing the 3rd mission, the one with the hwk. 2 player is working well so far, I intend to change some items from the first draft as I only want 1 hwk so might beef it up a bit for extra players. I will be a week or 2 testing this mission.

I haves also uploaded Jameson courage's elite ships, resized to fit 8 per page. This combined with the AI movement and v1.1 should be all you need to play the first 2 missions.

If anyone is willing to do extra playtesting on the first 2 missions in v1.1 and give some feedback it would be greatly appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...