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Ebak

At what point should players 'buy in'?

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If however someone wants to regularly borrow cards and models because they just don't want to spend their own disposable income on X-Wing for whatever reason then I wouldn't be fine with it for long.

 

Why should I drop regular money into the game/s I play while someone else gets to play and see the balance of their savings account rise at the same time? ;-p

 

Nothing is more frustrating than people who say they don't have the money for stuff you plan to use together, so you end up buying it yourself and loan it, only to find out that they later indulged themselves with some other expensive stuff that has no benefit to you

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I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask to borrow some upgrades exclusive to the E-wing. No offense to Corran and E'tahn, but most players don't own more than one E-wing kit.

 

Asking him to purchase 3 E-wings because you want him to spend as much money as you have seems pretty spiteful.

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I'll be clear, I don't mind lending stuff out, however it got to a point where it was every week, with the first friend, and in the end I was absolutely sick of having to haul a very heavy case from the outskirts of the city, on the bus, to the city center, turn up and find he wants to use similar items as me. I eventually had the talk with him regarding this and he did eventually buy into the game when Scum came out and he hasn't borrowed a thing from me since (besides two deci's last week as a 'just for fun' build which I was happy to supplement.)

 

There comes a point for me where, I don't want to loan stuff out...I've spent money on this game and these upgrades from these packs which don't cost a lot, if you want to use them, spend your money on them. He is in a better paying job than I am and we both have similar commitments and responsibilities, so it's not like he can't afford them...

 

If someone wants to borrow TIE Advance cards, or other cards from the epic ships, that is a very different equation because they are from very expensive packs that not many people want to buy so I can understand not wanting to fork out for that.

 

I never borrow cards from anyone, I buy all 3 factions which is expensive and has been over the past two years, but worth it for the freedom to make whatever list I want independent of who is around.

 

Yes I am grateful for the community I have, yes I am grateful for the friends I have, the issue isn't that, I feel exploited for my own collection.

Edited by Ebak

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If however someone wants to regularly borrow cards and models because they just don't want to spend their own disposable income on X-Wing for whatever reason then I wouldn't be fine with it for long.

 

Why should I drop regular money into the game/s I play while someone else gets to play and see the balance of their savings account rise at the same time? ;-p

This is a kind of mentality I'll never understand.

If you have some cards/ships you don't play anyway, how is having them sit in a box in any way bettetr than having them played by one of your friends?

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If however someone wants to regularly borrow cards and models because they just don't want to spend their own disposable income on X-Wing for whatever reason then I wouldn't be fine with it for long.

 

Why should I drop regular money into the game/s I play while someone else gets to play and see the balance of their savings account rise at the same time? ;-p

This is a kind of mentality I'll never understand.

If you have some cards/ships you don't play anyway, how is having them sit in a box in any way bettetr than having them played by one of your friends?

 

He doesn't say that he doesn't play those cards/ships.

 

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I solved this problem by being neither a lender nor a borrower.

 

This. Friends don't mooch off their friends, and don't get their friends into a lose-lose situation. There is a big difference between being a provider and an enabler, and I think the OP crossed it as soon as he expressed his doubts on the internet.

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This is a kind of mentality I'll never understand.

If you have some cards/ships you don't play anyway, how is having them sit in a box in any way bettetr than having them played by one of your friends?

 

 

I explained that I'm more than happy to lend things out occasionally or all the time if my friend doesn't have the money to buy his / her own, but why should I spend my money on X-Wing stuff that someone else could afford but would rather not buy?

 

If my friend wanted to split the cost of playing X-Wing with me but I wanted to own all the things myself then fine I'd be happy to lend them out.  It would be clear he or she wasn't just free loading and so I'd have no problem.

 

If on the other hand my friend wanted to play X-Wing but would rather spend their cash going on holidays, buying cars, playing golf or just saving their money for retirement for example then why on earth should I lend them out?

 

It's not about whether it's better than having them sat in a box doing nothing, it's a principle thing and is about respect for each other. Assuming that I wouldn't be mooching anything from them in return then I wouldn't want them mooching from me. 

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...why should I spend my money on X-Wing stuff that someone else could afford but would rather not buy?

 

Your question doesn't make sense - you're buying it anyway, the answer to your "why?" is "because you want it".  Somebody else getting pleasure from it too is supplementary,

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If your friend would rather inconvenience you once a week than spend 14 bucks, he's not really your friend.

 

How is it an inconvenience?  One could just as well say "if you considering lending somebody something you weren't using an inconvenience you're not really a friend".

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For me it depends what the other person's mentality is.  If they're not the sort of person who thinks "mooching" (a loaded term, obviously) is wrong when done to them, then I don't have a problem lending to them.  If they do have a problem with the concept then clearly them doing it to me is hypocritical and selfish, by their own standards, so I wouldn't lend to them.  That was a tricky sentence to phrase, hope it makes sense.  To be clear - it's not transactional, I'm not saying I'll lend to people if they lend other stuff to me, I'm saying it's about the mentality they have, it's about whether I think they would do the same for me.

Edited by mazz0

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but why should I spend my money on X-Wing stuff that someone else could afford but would rather not buy?

The way I see it is more like: why should my friend buy a duplicate of stuff I already own and don't use? (especially if it's occasionally borrowimg for a tournament).

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There's a lot of talk here about "what friends are" and "is mooching ok or not?" so I doubt I can add much in those areas. However, I can share about what libraries do, 'cause I'm a librarian.

In libraries, there's a practice (backed up by copyright law) that lets us lend items to other libraries, 'cause very few libraries can afford to buy everything. Within that inter-library loan system, though, once we hit five borrows from the same journal within a year we need to stop begging and buy that journal (or suck it up that we can't have it).

Applying that same principle to X-Wing could mean happily loaning 3x R7 Astromech to your friend once, then loaning Etahn once, then loaning Corran twice, then telling him to buy an E-Wing 'cause he's obviously relying on it heavily and he should have his own if he likes it that much. You'll have been (fairly) nice, (nicely) fair, and you'll have documented a pattern of use indicating his preferences for a game that he apparently enjoys. If the R7 thing is a once-off, then why worry? You'll have the droids you're looking for in no time.

Just a thought- it's not really up to me to tell you how to be friends.

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OP, I think you need to ask yourself why you are being bothered by the request your "friend" is making. It sounds like you are harboring some resentment toward this person because they aren't spending the same amount of money on the game that you are. We can't expect others to spend their money how we want them to. And if you are unwilling to help a "friend" out, even if it is a routine thing then it doesn't speak much to your friendship. It's easy to talk things through if it's bothering you.

 

And on another note, who really wants that many E-Wings? Presently the generics are poor ships and Etahn is just ok (good in some lists but not great).

 

Most importantly, I wouldn't recommend running that many R7's in a list if I read the original post correctly. It works great on Tarn due to his pilot ability. An R7 on several TLT Y-Wings seems very inefficient. Take a focus action and be done with it. Use other astromechs that are going to give you something better or use other upgrades.  

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ok tough call. om the one hand having more friends to play with is great. but if they are constant moochers AND can actually afford the ships and or cards then i can see how that would be kind of bothersome. i think the only way around it is to come up with a legit excuse like i am "Thinking about using "Insert what ever he/she was planning to fly" in my own list" that way by thinking about it you can actually fly what ever you want the day of the tournament..  And if he asks about it tell him you thought about it and changed your mind.. i mean it is your stuff!! Now i would give them a bit more leeway if they are flat broke and or a young kid with no income etc ect...

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Ships and stuff? Nah, unless I specifically want to let a good friend play some dumb spam list, like 6x A-Wing.

 

Dang you Goomba! I read that and went, "You can put 6 A-Wings in a 100 pt List?!?"  No... No you can't... but I did try...

 

EDIT: Oops... A-Wing Failure... forgot the Chardaan Refit was a Missile Upgrade... I has internet fail...

Edited by Grayfax

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Ships and stuff? Nah, unless I specifically want to let a good friend play some dumb spam list, like 6x A-Wing.

 

Dang you Goomba! I read that and went, "You can put 6 A-Wings in a 100 pt List?!?"  No... No you can't... but I did try...

 

Am I missing something?  6 Prototypes with refit is 90 points no?

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Um, giraffe just hit it on the head.

 

Are you really mates?  Man, screw X-Wing if it makes me want to treat my friends poorly or casts suspicions on them.  Dude!  They're cards that come with toy ships.  Not to devalue the game, but really it's just a game.  If you liked chess, you'd have a group of friends who played chess.  Would you get mad at them after 2 years because they didn't buy in?  No.  Your friends is totally justified in asking to borrow your toys!  If he didn't feel justified in asking his friend (you) for help, then there would e something wrong.

 

Let me fix this for you.  Give your head a shake.  Call your buddy right now and go hang out.  Forget about the X-Wing for a day or two and remember why you both are friends.   Just forget about this issue because bro, lemme tell you, life is ready, hiding in an alley waiting to crack your kneecaps with a broomhandle and take all your money.  You don't need to worry about stupid crap like whether or not you should lend out your belongings to friends.  They are your friends!  Help them!

 

Now don't get all soggy and take this the wrong way either.  No one is saying you are a bad friend for getting ancy about your things getting lent out.  That's not it at all, obviously you care enough to talk about the problem online, so...  Looking for solutions right?  If you didn't care you'd just take your ball and go home right?  But that's not it.  This guy cares about his friendship and wants to figure it out.  No one is saying that you're a bad friend, but maybe you and your friend need to talk about the dynamic of your friendship.  Obviously you feel like your friend is taking advantage of your good nature, but that's really not the case.  Mini-wargaming is expensive no matter how you cut it, and no one has any right to say what a person should spent their dough on.  So don't tell your friend he has to buy x ship, you can suggest he do so, but that's not your call so just remember that when you talk about things like that.  You don't like it when he presumes to be allowed to borrow your things so don't expect him to "buy in".  People these days are so silly!  Just confront your friend about your feelings, but first abandon this notion of having to buy in to a game.  If the two of you really are friends, then you will both be willing to make concessions.  Maybe choosing a middle path may work for you? X-mas is coming, maybe you could buy him a ship that has a card in it he likes?  Or maybe you go print off some cards and make him a nice homemade gift?  Or maybe just loosen up a bit and don't be so grumbly!   Either way, don't give up a friend for a silly game, especially when the problem revolves around the possession of a material thing!  

 

That's my novel.  TLDR:  Friendship is more important than material wealth.  Value your friends more and your possessions less.  Confucius also say many man smoke, but Fu Manchu too, so uh, there is that...

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the answer is "l2proxy"

 

 

honestly, if you have the required ship, ship card, ship base, dial, and relevant expendable upgrades (such as crackshot, ordnance, and extra munition tokens), the upgrade cards really don't matter as they aren't represented physically on the tabletop

 

once you print out your list from an online squad builder, there is no reason to require the upgrade cards be present (at most, a printed reference would be useful)

 

 

the only time you need to borrow anything is for a Store Championship or higher level competitive event. For casual games and local tournaments, it's pretty snobby to insist on all the cards actually being there

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The short answer?  Let him borrow it until it bugs you.  If it bugs you, then say something.  If saying something doesn't work and it still bugs you, say no.  Only you know your friend and your situation.  Re-asses down the road.  Being a push over and holding resentment will only build up in time and do worse for your friendship than saying something.

 

If he doesn't want to buy a blister just to get a single card, then point him to the internet and all the single cards you can buy.  For the price of one blister, he might even be able to  buy all the cards he needs. 

Edited by heychadwick

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ok tough call. om the one hand having more friends to play with is great. but if they are constant moochers AND can actually afford the ships and or cards then i can see how that would be kind of bothersome. i think the only way around it is to come up with a legit excuse like i am "Thinking about using "Insert what ever he/she was planning to fly" in my own list" that way by thinking about it you can actually fly what ever you want the day of the tournament..  And if he asks about it tell him you thought about it and changed your mind.. i mean it is your stuff!! Now i would give them a bit more leeway if they are flat broke and or a young kid with no income etc ect...

 

Your solution is to lie, to make up fake excuses?  That's a rather immature way to deal with it isn't it?  I think if there's a real problem both parties should talk it through honestly.

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Most importantly, I wouldn't recommend running that many R7's in a list if I read the original post correctly. It works great on Tarn due to his pilot ability. An R7 on several TLT Y-Wings seems very inefficient. Take a focus action and be done with it. Use other astromechs that are going to give you something better or use other upgrades.

This, for real. Be a true friend and refuse to loan those cards to your friend because it's crazy talk to need 3 r7 in a tournament list.

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