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GoldCrow18

My Imperials CAN'T BEAT ACKBAR!!!

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I play Imperials, my buddy plays Rebels. I have tried NUMEROUS LISTS from Gladiator heavy, to 2 Imp Classes with Boba, Bossk and TIEs, to Raider swarms backed by an IMP class. I am frequently running control heavy builds with Intel Officers and NK-7s. NOTHING seems to be able to chew through his 2-3 Mon Cal build with Slaved Turrets and Ackbar. On his 2 Mon Cal builds he runs Slaved Turrets, Advanced Projectors, Home One. He is rolling EVERY TURN of shooting 7 red dice, sometimes 8 with the command dial, and 2 blue dice at closer range. The side arcs are sooooo big that you cant hide in the front arc. Every turn he is killing a Gladiator with 2 shots from his Mon Cals (using his negation die faces to turn off BRACE). Many of my Gladiators don't get in a single shot before I am dead at range 3 and this game mandates that you survive at least a single volley at range 3 which isn't possible with the smaller ships. That prompted me to move to Imps but the Mon Cals make short work of those too (typically 2-3 turns of focus firing to drop me). With the Imp class SDs I am able to fire a maximum of 8 dice at range 2 or better, the Mon Col throws that in red dice at a range of 3 or better with the command dial (7 without), for a maximum of 9-10 dice at range 2 or better. This means that they ALWAYS get a better first shot in (7-8 red dice vs. 4) and continue to hit harder than the Imp Classes. It was the same result even after running defense heavy builds. Oh, and of note, he hugs the damned edge of the board and forces me to go to him. This superior firepower is nowhere matched on the Imperials and I am considering changing my allegiances. Is anyone else having these issues? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to handle this problem? Any advice is welcome! I already have fun Rebel builds I want to try but would rather not change my allegiances!

 

Thanks!

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3 ISDs with Motti and Gunnery Teams.

 

[ EMPIRE FLEET (392 points)
1 • Imperial II-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Motti - Gunnery Team - Electronic Countermeasures (158)
2 • Imperial I-class Star Destroyer - Gunnery Team (117)
3 • Imperial I-class Star Destroyer - Gunnery Team (117)
4 • Objectives - Most Wanted - Fleet Ambush - Superior Positions (0)
 
Edit: this is an incredibly dull fleet, and not very good against all comers, but it gets the job done vs. MC80s. Can't repel firepower of that magnitude (nor can they run away).
 
Edit 2: objectives are chosen to give you an even better shot, should you happen to be 2nd player.
Edited by Green Knight

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Electronic counter measures on your ISD's. That way when the brace gets locked down you can still use it, and Bombers, If he's running MC-80's Just squadron command Rhymer, Tie bomber/firespray's into him while trying to come at him from the front. It will not be easy, but it should give you the opportunity to atleast get a volley or two into those Mon Cal's, And the Bombers should give him something else to worry about besides your capital ships.

Edited by Moore1980

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Remember if you are the second player you control objectives and force him to move to contest you on those objectives.  If not you score easy points (and win) or if the game ends in a tie the second player wins.

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Boosted Comms and a big Rhymerball. Did you know that you can strike at his MC80's from outside of red dice range with that combination? Now YOU hug the board edge. Round after round of black dice while he can't reply. If he wants to get closer, he needs to face you...which brings his broadsides offline.

Yes, a few Awings will interfere with this. But Interceptors, Chiraneau, etc can mitigate that if he's bringing loaded ships mostly.

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Different concept:

 

[ EMPIRE FLEET (391 points)
1 • Imperial II-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Motti - Gunnery Team - Boosted Comms - Electronic Countermeasures (162)
2 • Imperial I-class Star Destroyer - Boosted Comms (114)
3 • Objectives - Precision Strike - Fleet Ambush - Superior Positions (0)
4 • Major Rhymer TIE Bomber Squadron (16)
5 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
6 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
7 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
8 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
9 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
10 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
11 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
12 • Firespray-31 (18)
13 • Firespray-31 (18)
 
Edit: puts out 8 black, 4 blue from beyond red range. Spread across 10 attacks, with an average return of 11 damage.
Edited by Green Knight

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Question One:

  1. Given that many MC-80s, is he running squadrons? If not, please explain why you are not running Rhymer, Tie Bombers, and Firesprays (as you can technically engage him with only squadrons at leave your ships out of his range, forcing him to come to you or just get pelted by bombers every turn).
  2. You are correct that Gladiators are particularly weak against the MC-80 as they fall directly into the "expensive but can be killed in one turn" bucket. You want either Raiders (can't kill them all on the way in, those that survive punch you in the face over and over at close range and block movement) or Victory/ISD (sit in my front arc, slow guy, I dare you).
  3. Gunnery teams on the ISD/VSD.

 

Edit: it looks like Green Knight and I had pretty much the same idea, amusingly.

Edited by Reinholt

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Glads with engine techs could put themselves at the front of the mc 80 without too much manuvering. Easier if you have activation advantage.

Could be even posible to put two of them in their front arc if well flought.

Or bomber heavy as some others have said.

If he plays 2 of them only a 4 ship list could mess it's long range firepower with activation control.

Glads, raiders going for the front arc and isd for side or front if posible.

Park an isd in it's front will be it's doom.

Edited by BorinBCN

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If he has 3 mon cals than he is squadronless. You just need to outdeploy him, place a raider and few ties first so you can see where his line is heading than just deploy rest of your ships on intercept course. Block his line from the front and he is done.

Edited by Microscop

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Tractor Beams are not terribly effective against MC80s. Only other large ships can use it on them, and the MC 80 can get back to full speed with just one navigate command since to move at speed 3 they need engine Techs anyway.

 

Every Nav Command is one less Concentrate Fire or Engineering Command.

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It sounds like your friend is a jerk. If he'd rather just get an auto win, tell him that he's a jerk and he should play with himself.

 

Edit: I guess you could be a reasonable person and have a conversation with him...

Edited by yoink101

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It sounds like your friend is a jerk. If he'd rather just get an auto win, tell him that he's a jerk and he should play with himself.

 

Edit: I guess you could be a reasonable person and have a conversation with him...

Have a conversation about what?

"Yeah, so... I can't beat you. Please take it easy on me!"

Sure it sucks getting beat down by Ackbar. Happened to me last night. But he's not invincible by any means, and there are several posts here detailing how to beat him.

It sounds to me like OP just needs to learn how to beat him. This is exactly the same conversation people were having about Screed/ACM after GenCon. With the same counter, too, now that I think about it: squadrons.

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Tractor Beams are not terribly effective against MC80s. Only other large ships can use it on them, and the MC 80 can get back to full speed with just one navigate command since to move at speed 3 they need engine Techs anyway.

 

Every Nav Command is one less Concentrate Fire or Engineering Command.

 

At most I would alternate between navigate and Engineering on an MC80, and I'd probably lean toward the former, honestly. Concentrate Fire is a waste when you have so few attacks. While you might get an MC80 to use one less engineering command, tractor beam ISDs are not going to radically affect how they function.

 

Alright, let's look at his opponent's build. Well, for starters, we don't actually have it, unless the OP has been playing 300 point games with Wave II ships (Don't do this. The ISD and MC80 take a lot of firepower to take out. Their presence in a 300 point game warps the metagame too much). So we either have 100 points unacounted for in a 2 MC80 list, and his 3 MC80 list needs to be pretty upgrade light (Since your opponent is using the Assault variant for... some reason) since after Home One and Ackbar he's only got 13 points to use.

 

Let's start with mission choices.

-For Navigation, Intel Sweep, Dangerous Territory, and Minefields all enable you to disrupt your opponent's plan to just fly along the board edge.

-For Defense, Fleet Ambush splits his fleet and makes it easier for you to surround his ships, while Contested Outpost would allow you to force him to come to you.

-For Offense, Most Wanted is your best bet. Designate one of his ships as the objective ship and do everything you can to kill that, while you designate a raider and just have it run and hide.

 

I'd also second the fighter recommendation- Your opponent's build is utterly defenseless against them, since Slaved Turrets limits you to shooting one thing a turn. Xi7 Turbolasers or Heavy Turbolaser turrets will severely hamper his defense tokens.

 

You mean, a ship-heavy list gets its shh packed in by Fireballs? NO WAY.

To be fair, this is not just any ship-heavy list. This is a ship-heavy list that is actively shooting itself in the foot with regards to squadrons by taking Slaved Turrets.

Edited by Squark

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