Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Rogue 4

Bossk + Mangler + Calculation ?

Recommended Posts

So I wanted to make sure this combo worked (sorry if it has been addressed previously):

 

 

Bossk (with a Focus token) rolls 3 attack dice with Mangler Cannon. I roll a Crit, Focus, and a Hit

Before defender rolls I change the Focus into a Crit with Calculation using my Focus Token

So I now have 2 Crits and a Hit

And then use the Mangler Cannon to change a Hit into a Crit for 3 Crits

 

My Defender rolls 1 defense dice and has an evade.

He rolls and evade and uses his evade token to cancel 2 crits. 

 

Using Bossk's ability I now can change the last crit into 2 hits, correct?

 

Thanks

Edited by Rogue 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's all correct, yes.

 

(But just to be sure there's no confusion, you can only trigger Bossk's ability once per attack. So, if your opponent didn't have an evade token, you'd have two uncanceled crits going through. You could convert one of those crits to two hits, but not the second. In the end, your opponent would take 2 hits and 1 crit.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calculation is a little redundant with Mangler canon. You can just change a regular hit to a crit anyway. And use a focus to change the focus results to hits.

 

Maybe you are trying to crit fish, but there's better options for Bossk.

 

Namely: Stay on Target + Outlaw Techs + Intelligence Agent.

 

If stress scares you too much, Marksmanship wouldn't be too bad because of how low his agility is anyway, so Navigator + Maneuvering fins and K4 security Droid.

 

People are usually afraid to use anything but Push the limit and Engine Upgrade. on EVERY ship.

Edited by Vulf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a great set up for sure!  I then like to add Outlaw Tech as a crew to insure I always have a focus.  Rolling two crits with Bossk is just murder.  One is changed into two hits and helps get the second crit through.  I often like to run Bossk with two Starvipers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a great set up for sure!  I then like to add Outlaw Tech as a crew to insure I always have a focus.  Rolling two crits with Bossk is just murder.  One is changed into two hits and helps get the second crit through.  I often like to run Bossk with two Starvipers.

 

You only change the crit into two hits after your target has rolled defense dice and cancelled your initial hits.

 

How would Bossk's power help get a second crit through? I could easily be misunderstanding something. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It is a great set up for sure!  I then like to add Outlaw Tech as a crew to insure I always have a focus.  Rolling two crits with Bossk is just murder.  One is changed into two hits and helps get the second crit through.  I often like to run Bossk with two Starvipers.

 

You only change the crit into two hits after your target has rolled defense dice and cancelled your initial hits.

 

How would Bossk's power help get a second crit through? I could easily be misunderstanding something. :)

 

You have.  I'm suggesting that if you have rolled TWO crits then one of them can be changed into two hits while the other is left a crit.  This way, you are not constantly having to sacrifice your only crit to get damage through.  A Mangler Cannon with Calculation helps you to roll TWO crits.  One to keep and the other to use Bossk's ability on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait... how would his ability work with an Autoblaster?

If a crit is cancelled by defensive dice, but you still hit with your regular hits, (that can't be cancelled) can you turn that cancelled crit into 2 hits, or is it too late?

 

Yeah it is definitely too late and Autoblaster is a terrible upgrade for Bossk, as it is with most ships that aren't piloted by Ten Numb.

Edited by Vulf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait... how would his ability work with an Autoblaster?

If a crit is cancelled by defensive dice, but you still hit with your regular hits, (that can't be cancelled) can you turn that cancelled crit into 2 hits, or is it too late?

Bossk's ability is that he gets final say on the attack dice.  No power can be used after his.  Regular hits cannot be cancelled by dice results when delivered from an Autoblaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Wait... how would his ability work with an Autoblaster?

If a crit is cancelled by defensive dice, but you still hit with your regular hits, (that can't be cancelled) can you turn that cancelled crit into 2 hits, or is it too late?

Bossk's ability is that he gets final say on the attack dice.  No power can be used after his.  Regular hits cannot be cancelled by dice results when delivered from an Autoblaster.

 

 

Yeah but then the crit can be cancelled by the opponent before you determine they have been hit. So before you have the chance to cancel the crit yourself to turn it in to two hits!  Autoblaster basically does nothing for Bossk!

 

(That it doesn't do for anyone else)

 

The only situation where it would get that extra damage from a crit, is if the enemy had no way to cancel the crit with defense die, or you rolled more crits than they have dice results to cancel. But at that point you might as well be firing with your primary weapon, and get the range 1 bonus.

Edited by Vulf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Calculation is a little redundant with Mangler canon. You can just change a regular hit to a crit anyway. And use a focus to change the focus results to hits.

 

Maybe you are trying to crit fish, but there's better options for Bossk.

 

Namely: Stay on Target + Outlaw Techs + Intelligence Agent.

 

If stress scares you too much, Marksmanship wouldn't be too bad because of how low his agility is anyway, so Navigator + Maneuvering fins and K4 security Droid.

 

People are usually afraid to use anything but Push the limit and Engine Upgrade. on EVERY ship.

 

 

I like your suggestions so I am going to try this:

 

Bossk, Stay on Target, Outlaw Techs, Int Agent, Mangler Cannon, Hound's Tooth

Syndicate Slug, R4 Argomech, Blaster turret

Syndicate Slug, R4 Argomech, Blaster turret

 

Thoughts? I have 2 more points. What should, if I do, add?

Edited by Rogue 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Wait... how would his ability work with an Autoblaster?

If a crit is cancelled by defensive dice, but you still hit with your regular hits, (that can't be cancelled) can you turn that cancelled crit into 2 hits, or is it too late?

Bossk's ability is that he gets final say on the attack dice.  No power can be used after his.  Regular hits cannot be cancelled by dice results when delivered from an Autoblaster.

 

 

Yeah but then the crit can be cancelled by the opponent before you determine they have been hit. So before you have the chance to cancel the crit yourself to turn it in to two hits!  Autoblaster basically does nothing for Bossk!

 

(That it doesn't do for anyone else)

 

The only situation where it would get that extra damage from a crit, is if the enemy had no way to cancel the crit with defense die, or you rolled more crits than they have dice results to cancel. But at that point you might as well be firing with your primary weapon, and get the range 1 bonus.

 

You miss understand the steps of combat and dealing damage.

 

Step 6 of combat is Compare results.  Bossk's ability triggers as the last part of this step.  Step 7 is "Deal Damage".

 

Bossk's ability is "When you perform an attack that hits, before dealing damage, you may cancel 1 of your 

 results to add 2 results." 

 

Regular hits from an Autoblaster cannot be canceled, therefore the attack hits if the die results show at least one regular hit.  Before Step 6 ends, Bossk can change a single crit into a regular hit.  This is the guaranteed last event to happen before moving on to Step 7.  Defense dice results are compared and damage is assigned accordingly.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That looks like you have 88 points. You could add a Mangler Cannon and the Houndstooth title to Bossk. Replace the turrets on the Y-wings to Twin Laser Turrets and drop their Astromechs down to 1-pointers maybe.

 

 

 

^And I think I'm not misunderstanding, since Autoblaster says your opponent may cancel critical.png before hit.png. Are not results cancelled before you determine if the attack hits? I suppose I'll just read that part of the rules again.

 

To perform a ship’s attack, resolve the following steps.
A full example of these steps is shown on page 8.

1. The attacker chooses an enemy ship to target and rolls a number of red attack dice equal to its primary weapon value.
2. The defender rolls a number of green defense dice equal to its agility value.
3. The players compare dice results, canceling one (HIT) or (CRIT) result for each (EVADE) result.
4. The defender suffers damage equal to the number of uncanceled (HIT)  and (CRIT)  results.

 

For each point of damage, the defender loses one shield token; if it does not have a shield tokens to lose, it is dealt one Damage card instead.

 

from page 8:

 

The ships compare their results. The defender’s (FOCUS) result has no effect. The (EVADE) result cancels one (HIT) result. One (HIT) result remains uncancelled, so the attack hits.

 

It looks like hit dice are cancelled by evade results before you determine a hit has happened, so Bossk wouldn't be able to cancel a crit that has already been cancelled by an (EVADE) result. So yeah, I'm super right. And looking in the rules reference the order is no different. You still cancel dice with evade results before determining that you have hit. You don't just skip past that part and say you have already hit because some of your dice can't be cancelled.

 

Rules Reference step 6.

Compare Results:
For each (EVADE) result, the defender cancels one (HIT) or (CRIT) result. All (HIT) results must be canceled before any (CRIT) results may be canceled. If at least one (HIT) or (CRIT) result remains uncanceled, the defender is hit by the attack; otherwise, the attack misses.

Edited by Vulf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

^And I think I'm still not understanding, since Autoblaster says your opponent may cancel critical.png before hit.png. Aren't results cancelled before you determine if the attack hits? I suppose I'll just read that part of the rules again.

 

No.  In steps 5 and 6, the defender may modify dice results and use card abilities.  THEN, Bossk's ability happens and no other event may happen after Bossk's.  (Page 5 of the new Core rule book)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It you want to keep those Turrets on the Thugs, I'd pick either Tactician or Mercenary Copilot for Bossk's 3rd crew slot. Mercenary Copilot would be good for those times you have to fire in your auxiliary arc without the benefit of Mangler Cannon to guarantee a crit at range 3. But depending on your opponent, they make try to stick close, and at range 2, some stress from Tactician will keep them from flying circles around you and keep them doing predictable green maneuvers.

Edited by Vulf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have ran Bossk w/ Marksmanship, Gunner, Tactician, and Engine Upgrade(49 points) paired with IG88-B eight times now.  I went three and one locally and then one and three at a tournament though one of my loses was to the guy who won it all, the second was to the fifth place finisher, and the last went to time because the other guy played really slow, to the point that I was frequently asking him to pick up the pace.  I only needed to kill one more ship to beat him via mov and I had him on the ropes.  He also made top four.  Fun tourney, I am mostly happy with how I flew, but I definitely need some more practice.

 

As for my Bossk build and the thinking behind it.  I really wanted to try out Bossk in a tournament and to that end I explore the different ways to guarantee crits with him.  Mangler cannon is nice but has a smaller arc than normal, Calculation is cool but I felt like I would need Rec Spec so I could have a spare focus to cover up any other eye balls to help the crit get through.  I settled on Marksmanship because it works for the whole shooting round and so works great with Gunner.  Tactician is there to threaten arc dodgers.  They have great defense so if they end up in range two of Bossk's huge arc they will have to choose between letting the first shot go through and taking one stress or letting me shoot again and taking a second stress.  I only use engine upgrade when I don't have a shot on something to help move the firing arc around or to close to range two on a specific target.

 

It works great, Bossk one shot Ties, Tie/fos, and Z95s.  One game Bossk rolled a hit, crit, and two focus which turned to two crits, two hits with Marksmanship against a 3H 2S B-Wing and he rolled a blank.  Convert one crit to two hits and boom, one dead B-Wing and one surprised opponent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Yeah but then the crit can be cancelled by the opponent before you determine they have been hit. So before you have the chance to cancel the crit yourself to turn it in to two hits!  Autoblaster basically does nothing for Bossk!

 

(That it doesn't do for anyone else)

 

The only situation where it would get that extra damage from a crit, is if the enemy had no way to cancel the crit with defense die, or you rolled more crits than they have dice results to cancel. But at that point you might as well be firing with your primary weapon, and get the range 1 bonus.

You miss understand the steps of combat and dealing damage.

 

Step 6 of combat is Compare results.  Bossk's ability triggers as the last part of this step.  Step 7 is "Deal Damage".

 

Bossk's ability is "When you perform an attack that hits, before dealing damage, you may cancel 1 of your 

 results to add 2 results." 

 

Regular hits from an Autoblaster cannot be canceled, therefore the attack hits if the die results show at least one regular hit.  Before Step 6 ends, Bossk can change a single crit into a regular hit.  This is the guaranteed last event to happen before moving on to Step 7.  Defense dice results are compared and damage is assigned accordingly. 

 

No, you can't use Bossk's ability to cancel a crit that would be canceled by defense dice. Here's the full text of the Compare Results step: "For each [Evade] result, the defender cancels one [Hit] or [Crit] result. All [Hit] results must be canceled before any [Crit] results may be canceled. If at least one [Hit] or [Crit] result remains uncanceled, the defender is hit by the attack; otherwise, the attack misses." That last sentence is the key to the timing - the defender is only considered to be "hit" by an attack after they've used their evade results to cancel attack dice.

 

You seem to be saying that since hit results can't be canceled with an Autoblaster, then you can preemptively consider the attack to have hit before that point. But there's no support in the rules for "predicting" the result of an attack and triggering abilities early based on that prediction. Bossk can only trigger his ability after dice have been compared and canceled, because until that happens, the attack hasn't hit yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I wanted to make sure this combo worked (sorry if it has been addressed previously):

 

 

Bossk (with a Focus token) rolls 3 attack dice with Mangler Cannon. I roll a Crit, Focus, and a Hit

Before defender rolls I change the Focus into a Crit with Calculation using my Focus Token

So I now have 2 Crits and a Hit

And then use the Mangler Cannon to change a Hit into a Crit for 3 Crits

 

My Defender rolls 1 defense dice and has an evade.

He rolls and evade and uses his evade token to cancel 2 crits. 

 

Using Bossk's ability I now can change the last crit into 2 hits, correct?

 

Thanks

 

...and some people think that the YV-666 is the worst ship in Wave 7...

SCUM%252520BOSSK.png   SCUM%252520YV-666%252520BOSSK.png

 

ZOWIES HOWIES?!

:o:huh::rolleyes:

 

Some people just suck and hate on the glory that is SCUM too.

^_^:D:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Yeah but then the crit can be cancelled by the opponent before you determine they have been hit. So before you have the chance to cancel the crit yourself to turn it in to two hits!  Autoblaster basically does nothing for Bossk!

 

(That it doesn't do for anyone else)

 

The only situation where it would get that extra damage from a crit, is if the enemy had no way to cancel the crit with defense die, or you rolled more crits than they have dice results to cancel. But at that point you might as well be firing with your primary weapon, and get the range 1 bonus.

You miss understand the steps of combat and dealing damage.

 

Step 6 of combat is Compare results.  Bossk's ability triggers as the last part of this step.  Step 7 is "Deal Damage".

 

Bossk's ability is "When you perform an attack that hits, before dealing damage, you may cancel 1 of your 

 results to add 2 results." 

 

Regular hits from an Autoblaster cannot be canceled, therefore the attack hits if the die results show at least one regular hit.  Before Step 6 ends, Bossk can change a single crit into a regular hit.  This is the guaranteed last event to happen before moving on to Step 7.  Defense dice results are compared and damage is assigned accordingly. 

 

No, you can't use Bossk's ability to cancel a crit that would be canceled by defense dice. Here's the full text of the Compare Results step: "For each [Evade] result, the defender cancels one [Hit] or [Crit] result. All [Hit] results must be canceled before any [Crit] results may be canceled. If at least one [Hit] or [Crit] result remains uncanceled, the defender is hit by the attack; otherwise, the attack misses." That last sentence is the key to the timing - the defender is only considered to be "hit" by an attack after they've used their evade results to cancel attack dice.

 

You seem to be saying that since hit results can't be canceled with an Autoblaster, then you can preemptively consider the attack to have hit before that point. But there's no support in the rules for "predicting" the result of an attack and triggering abilities early based on that prediction. Bossk can only trigger his ability after dice have been compared and canceled, because until that happens, the attack hasn't hit yet.

 

This has no barring on Bossk's ability.

 

If Bossk fires his Autoblaster cannon and the results are 2 hits and a crit the next thing that happens is the Attack dice are modified (starting with the defender and ending with the attacker).  Next, defense dice are rolled.  Then, the Attacker and Defender (starting with the Attacker) take turns modifying defense dice through tokens, cards, and abilities.  Once this happens Dice Results are compared.  It is at this step that Bossk's ability triggers.  If the attack hits, he may change a crit into two hits.  DICE ARE NOT CANCELLED, results are.  Bossk changes the results.  Stage 6 reads:

 

6. Compare Results: For each (evade) result, the defender cancels one (hit) or (crit) result. All (hit) results must be canceled before any (crit) results may be canceled. If at least one (hit) or (cirt) result remains uncanceled, the defender is hit by the attack; otherwise, the attack misses

 

In stages 3 though 5 the Defender may have rolled or modified dice to have a certain amount of evade results.  Evade results CANNOT cancel a hit result from an Autoblaster cannon.  Even if the the Defender, before stage 6, was hoping to cancel the crit result with an evade result, they cannot, because Bossk has modified the dice one last time to a result that the evade result cannot cancel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like Bossk is a modification to the results after everything is cancelled but right before damage is dealt. That makes it unique as far as dice/result mods go, modifying at a time that is outside the 'normal' time to mod dice and results. The 'if the attack hits' part clearly puts Bossk after the final results of defenders canceling and determining if the attack hit. Then Bossk can cancel one crit result and add two hit results immediately before damage is dealt. By that time any and all cancelation by the defender would have happened and there is no further canceling except for Bossk, and any other future stuff that cancels after it hits but before damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...