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kelpie

Two lightsaber

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Ok just a silly question

 

what's the differences on using 2 lightsaber?

i don't recall anny rules about using 2 weapons (so using 2 pistol too got not much a change), but 2 lightsaber is way more common (someone say... Ahsoka? Asajj? Anakin from Ep II? 70-80% of fictional characthers from comic books and videogames too?)

 

so i'm wondering: what if someone whanna use 2 lightsaber?

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Ok just a silly question

 

what's the differences on using 2 lightsaber?

i don't recall anny rules about using 2 weapons (so using 2 pistol too got not much a change), but 2 lightsaber is way more common (someone say... Ahsoka? Asajj? Anakin from Ep II? 70-80% of fictional characthers from comic books and videogames too?)

 

so i'm wondering: what if someone whanna use 2 lightsaber?

 

I'm not trying to dissuade you from dual-wielding, but your numbers are way off.  80-90% of the Jedi use a single saber.  The number of actual Jar'Kai practitioners (dual wielders) is actually pretty low.

There's nothing wrong with dual-wielding if you want though, and the rules are in the core books.

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It's +1 difficulty, then if you succeed on the check your "Primary" weapon hits, for 2 Advantage your secondary weapon hits with the same number of success. You can only trigger Qualities of the second weapon once you have spent the advantage to hit with it, which means qualities that affect the original dice pool are not considered

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Yeah, two-weapon wielding with lightsabers isn't the easiest thing to accomplish in this system.

 

That said, there are ways to make it a little easier.  The first of this is to use a shoto lightsaber as your primary weapon.  Yes, it's one less point of damage, but the shoto has the Accurate quality, giving you a boost die and better odds of generating the Advantage needed to trigger the hit with your off-hand weapon.

 

The second of these is the Paired attachment from Fly Casual (EotE Smuggler sourcebook).  It costs 300 credits, requires a hard point from the weapons to be "paired," and reduces the cost of triggering the extra attack with the off-hand weapon of the set to just one Advantage.

 

If the GM is using the lightsaber construction rules detailed in the GM Kit, you might be able to construct a shoto hilt with an extra hard point, allowing you to add Superior Hilt Customization in addition to Paired as attachments on your shoto.  The Superior quality generates one free Advantage, and as long as you don't roll lots of Threat, you've got good odds of having enough left over Advantage to trigger the off-hand attack.

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Oh ok

I missed the rules for two weapon fighting :P

I was also asking about what's the advantage of jar'kai, if any, and from youe answers it seems is'nt so much advantage

 

however, every weapon style, size, etc is fully compatible with any combat style from specialisation, right? so i can use dual 'saber with shien expert or ataru striker (for instance) even if jar'kai is, technically, a fully different style

 

last but not least, you can use every type of weapon as dual wield, not just lightsaber + shoto, so even a dual lightstaff or a force pike and lightasaber, right?

(even if this is something, in my opinion, should be just an occasional and circumstantial thing, not a standard one...)

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Oh ok

I missed the rules for two weapon fighting :P

I was also asking about what's the advantage of jar'kai, if any, and from youe answers it seems is'nt so much advantage

 

however, every weapon style, size, etc is fully compatible with any combat style from specialisation, right? so i can use dual 'saber with shien expert or ataru striker (for instance) even if jar'kai is, technically, a fully different style

 

last but not least, you can use every type of weapon as dual wield, not just lightsaber + shoto, so even a dual lightstaff or a force pike and lightasaber, right?

(even if this is something, in my opinion, should be just an occasional and circumstantial thing, not a standard one...)

Well until we get the Jar Kai lightsaber form not alot of advantage to it. But it does allow you to weild to different types of crystals. Or it allow 2 hits on a target. Hopefully we will get something like spit fire from the gunfighter tree.

Edited by Daeglan

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Oh ok

I missed the rules for two weapon fighting :P

I was also asking about what's the advantage of jar'kai, if any, and from youe answers it seems is'nt so much advantage

 

however, every weapon style, size, etc is fully compatible with any combat style from specialisation, right? so i can use dual 'saber with shien expert or ataru striker (for instance) even if jar'kai is, technically, a fully different style

 

last but not least, you can use every type of weapon as dual wield, not just lightsaber + shoto, so even a dual lightstaff or a force pike and lightasaber, right?

(even if this is something, in my opinion, should be just an occasional and circumstantial thing, not a standard one...)

 

Personally, I'd say that a saberstaff or saber pike is a two-handed weapon anyway, so I wouldn't allow them to be dual-wielded.

 

As has been said before, you need to be quite skilled to dual-wield effectively (quite right two, coordinating two melee weapons is a lot harder than people think), but if you're good enough to deal with the +1 difficulty and generate a few net advantages as well then you can do a hell of a lot of damage.

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Yeah, again, no specialization particular to dual-wielding yet. Seeing as we have Gunslinger, specifically for dual-wielding pistols, it's not unlikely we'll see something in one of the career books. Consular, maybe (due to it's relation to Niman)?

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Yeah, two-weapon wielding with lightsabers isn't the easiest thing to accomplish in this system.

 

That said, there are ways to make it a little easier.  The first of this is to use a shoto lightsaber as your primary weapon.  Yes, it's one less point of damage, but the shoto has the Accurate quality, giving you a boost die and better odds of generating the Advantage needed to trigger the hit with your off-hand weapon.

 

The second of these is the Paired attachment from Fly Casual (EotE Smuggler sourcebook).  It costs 300 credits, requires a hard point from the weapons to be "paired," and reduces the cost of triggering the extra attack with the off-hand weapon of the set to just one Advantage.

 

If the GM is using the lightsaber construction rules detailed in the GM Kit, you might be able to construct a shoto hilt with an extra hard point, allowing you to add Superior Hilt Customization in addition to Paired as attachments on your shoto.  The Superior quality generates one free Advantage, and as long as you don't roll lots of Threat, you've got good odds of having enough left over Advantage to trigger the off-hand attack.

 

While by the rules is absolutely sound advice and very true, it seems to me like it would be nice to see some kind of benefit to wielding a smaller blade in the offhand. It's one of the more common practices when dual wielding.. either regular blade and a smaller blade offhand or just two smaller blades. With these rules though, you would be best served with a smaller blade primary and a larger blade secondary, which seems counter to how this is historically done. It would be nice if the use of certain weapons offhand provided some kind of boost specifically to triggering them.

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Hmm I saw Ventress mentioned so that made me think of a related question. As her lightsaber a could attach together at the hilt to form a saber staff, would this be possible to replicate in F&D? Also as they are still technically 2 weapons, how would one deal with the crystals (because, in theory that would allow for 2 different crystals in a saber staff)?

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Hmm I saw Ventress mentioned so that made me think of a related question. As her lightsaber a could attach together at the hilt to form a saber staff, would this be possible to replicate in F&D? Also as they are still technically 2 weapons, how would one deal with the crystals (because, in theory that would allow for 2 different crystals in a saber staff)?

 

I would say you would have to add a mod to make them detachable. But yes, that would require two separate crystals to work. Which would open the possibility up for each side of the staff having different crystal properties and what not but eeeeeh. It's not that big of a deal to me. I do think it's possible to build a sabre staff with using only one crystal but that would mean that it's not detachable, so you can't pull a Ventress. Also you'd be SOL if someone chopped it in half. I tend to think Maul built his with two crystals for this very reason.

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There are 4 armed races who should be able to dual wield or quad wield sabers, pike and double bladed light sabers.

Has been discussed. up the difficulty by one for each additional weapon. 2 adv per additional hit.

Also remember 2 weapon fighting with non similar weapons uses the lower attribute and lower skill. Which for like weapons happens to be the same.

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Oh ok

I missed the rules for two weapon fighting :P

I was also asking about what's the advantage of jar'kai, if any, and from youe answers it seems is'nt so much advantage

 

however, every weapon style, size, etc is fully compatible with any combat style from specialisation, right? so i can use dual 'saber with shien expert or ataru striker (for instance) even if jar'kai is, technically, a fully different style

 

last but not least, you can use every type of weapon as dual wield, not just lightsaber + shoto, so even a dual lightstaff or a force pike and lightasaber, right?

(even if this is something, in my opinion, should be just an occasional and circumstantial thing, not a standard one...)

Well until we get the Jar Kai lightsaber form not alot of advantage to it. But it does allow you to weild to different types of crystals. Or it allow 2 hits on a target. Hopefully we will get something like spit fire from the gunfighter tree.

 

 

A dual lightsaber tree might come out in a later class supplement, but I wouldn't hold your breath given that Niman/Form VI has already been published without any talents for Jar'Kai combat included. I'm not holding out a lot of hope of seeing Vapaad talents either, though there's at least a chance of some appearing in the Juyo/Form VII talent tree where it belongs, assuming Juyo is released at all, hopefully in either the Warrior class book or as part of a dedicated Lightsaber Combat Supplement.

 

Still, time will tell.

 

Edit: The Shii-Cho / Form I talent tree already includes something roughly analogous to the Gunslinger's Spitfire talent. It's called Saarlac Sweep.

Edited by Azraiel

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I think the possibility of seeing a Jar'kai spec is more likely than not. Aside from coolness, unlike Vaapad or Djem So, Jar'kai is not, strictly speaking, a branch or variation of Niman. They share origins, but aren't synonymous, and some have practice it with other forms (like Grievous and Asajj).

In the same way Djem So is mentioned by a talent under Shien Expert, Vaapad might get the same treatment with whatever future Juyo spec appears, while Jar'kai might get a comparable spec to Gunslinger.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of Two-saber spec with a talent named "Jarkai" that allows you to use two-weapon fighting with 2 sabers at a reduced difficulty. But Jarkai as a spec works just as good. Either way I would be pleased.

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I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of Two-saber spec with a talent named "Jarkai" that allows you to use two-weapon fighting with 2 sabers at a reduced difficulty. But Jarkai as a spec works just as good. Either way I would be pleased.

It is pretty easy to build a Jar Kai Spec. using gunslinger. You do have to swap a few talents for things like parry and reflect. Whch there are plenty that don't make sense for a melee thing. :)

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Juyo will probably be a universal specialization found in an adventure book.

Vaapad will probably be a signature ability specific to the Juuyo tree.

 

Jar'kai might make an appearance in the Seeker or warrior book.

 

Honestly I still think all the light saber forms should be universal trees and not tied to a career..

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Juyo will probably be a universal specialization found in an adventure book.

Vaapad will probably be a signature ability specific to the Juuyo tree.

 

Jar'kai might make an appearance in the Seeker or warrior book.

 

Honestly I still think all the light saber forms should be universal trees and not tied to a career..

 

I would guess that Juyo will be part of the Warrior books additional specializations.  Vaapad's tricky though, since it's a sub-form of Juyo.  In fact, Juyo is integral to using Vaapad.  While 80% of Vaapad is actually the Juyo form, it still has a few key abilities of it's own.  I'm not really sure how to represent this other then making Vaapad a Signature Ability, and limiting it's attachment only to the top of the Juyo tree.

 

Jar'Kai is similar in some respects.  Jar'Kai is most closely associated with form VI Niman.  Since Niman is partially based off of a dual sword style to begin with (which just so happens was called Jar'Kai).  Many Jedi studied at least the basics of Niman while learning to dual-wield sabers (and then later switched to a different form), and Niman also had more dual-wielding practitioners then any other form.  Giving Jar'Kai it's own form isn't actually accurate, since it's not a form.  It's used in conjunction with a form.  Personally, dual-wielding rules are already present, so theirs no real need to add a tree specifically for this ability.  However, if I had to create a tree representing this ability, I'd make it a Weaponmaster tree.  It would be split, with one side focusing on dual-wielding, and the other focusing on single saber mastery.

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