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Belamont

Dengar preview is up

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In terms of the campaign, I do like him, tho I wouldn't take his agenda set in every case.

I like him with technological superiority (for the attachment that adds a surge) as well as in a bounty hunter themed agenda deck w/ subversive tactics.

My only concern is 8 damage in 1 round is very possible from the heroes, especially in the later stages, so you have to deploy him carefully.

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I think he is an interesting choice for a control based figure for a faction that has no control. Throwing on Weaken or Stun from long range is an enjoyable idea. He's alright in price.

The skirmish upgrade is weird though. Exhaust is once pre round? I could see using it with a Nexu to turn it's auto bleed into an auto stun for great effect.

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So if I'm understanding Punishing Strike correctly:

 

My Nexu attacks a target. That target still has the Bleed condition from my previous attack. My Nexu can now apply either Stun or Weaken to the target, without discarding the original Bleed?

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So if I'm understanding Punishing Strike correctly:

 

My Nexu attacks a target. That target still has the Bleed condition from my previous attack. My Nexu can now apply either Stun or Weaken to the target, without discarding the original Bleed?

 

I'm not so sure this works.

 

It says to discard that condition not the new one being applied. I think it's more meant to be used if you figure applies stun and you want to apply bleed etc, not sure how it will work with someone who already has that condition.

 

I like the cost and statline of Dengar.  I was hoping for something better from the Bib card though, like something that gave hunters a movement bump.

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Punishing strike doesn't work on existing conditions, but basically when you apply a condition, you can inflict a different one instead. Like Nexu could automatically apply a stun instead of bleed (which is pretty scary).

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He seems decent at best. His biggest strength being how cheap he is to deploy and unlike Sorin and Kayn, he doesn't require other figures to be useful. You can just as easily toss Dengar into a mission with or without condition synergy. In fact, it'd probably be best to use him in situations where you won't be applying bleed. Heroes pretty much have no choice but to remove stun in the campaign (I'd say stun is the best condition ever) and weakness auto-removes itself. With bleed, they could consider keeping it just to rob you of that extra surge. Not a great trade, but still possible. Basically Dengar is an answer to the Imperial player's 'problem' that there were no cheap villians. But that is also a problem against Dengar, as by the time you unlock him (at least 3 missions into the campaign) you could afford the other villians without too much trouble. And like said before, Dengar's weak HP count would make him an easy target in later missions.

 

His agenda deck seems bad to me. 'Beaten Down' looks good on paper but all a hero has to do is spend an action to rest and most heroes have more than 3 endurance. So its almost like a weaker version of stun. Targeted cruelty also seems bad. 1 influence for 1 condition is a terrible trade and I'd only take this card if it were the finale.

Edited by patrickmahan

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He is a very controlling, tech piece. There really isn't anything in the game yet that pushes control as far as Dengar does. So he might be able to make his way into competitive skirmish lists. And I'll be thrilled if he does, but so far, efficiency tops specialty.

 

I think my favorite part is his agenda set. Targeted Cruelty looks like a great choice to drop in a mission that is going down to the wire. Pile Bleed and Stun onto a hero at the same time. And Beaten Down, I always like agendas that you can use repeatedly without paying a cost more than once.

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His agenda deck seems bad to me. 'Beaten Down' looks good on paper but all a hero has to do is spend an action to rest and most heroes have more than 3 endurance. So its almost like a weaker version of stun. Targeted cruelty also seems bad. 1 influence for 1 condition is a terrible trade and I'd only take this card if it were the finale.

Beaten Down seems amazing to me. Pair it up with the Subversive Tactics class deck, which is already loaded with strain, and it's a free three damage at the end of a round against a target with a harmful status. 

 

Targeted Cruelty is weak, but there aren't a lot of overpowering 1 Influence cards out there.

 

I feel the Skirmish Upgrade is one point too much ... For 1 point it would be great and an elite nexu with an auto stun would be definitly playable. 

I think the main appeal of it comes from the flexibility. It's not an attachment, so it's something that your entire squad can benefit from. Elite Trandoshans, Tuskan Raiders, HK Assassin Droids, Nexu, Wampas... all of them get versatility with their harmful conditions.
Edited by PhantomFO

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I like that it's not an attachment, so it works after ANY figure's attack.  Boba can swap weaken for stun, Trandoshans can swap bleed for stun, basically, once per turn, anyone with a condition ability can stun.  For that, I think the price is right.

 

Focused Dengar will almost always Stun/Bleed on any attack, and that's pretty great.  And by that I mean pretty terrible on the receiving end, especially in Campaign.  Take an entire turn away from a Rebel player.

Edited by Engine25

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I did some calculations with Dengar against a black defense die :

 

MinRange: 3

MaxRange : 7

Average Range : 4.67

 

Average Surge without Contempt : 1.34

With 50% Chance of 2 or 3 Surges without Contempt

 

If you calculate a possible surge for +2 dmg against a black die and an additional surge from contempt you get 52.5% Chance to deal at least 1 dmg and at least 2 surges at range 3, 40.7% chance for range 4 and 22.2% chance at range 5. 

 

So I think if you want the Conditions to nail down I think you should consider something max range 4.

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On "Payback" - what if Dengar is defeated?  Can he still fire back like a Hired Gun can?

No. The wording is after the attack resolves, so he would be defeated and removed, thus no attack. Parting shot specifically ignores this problem with its wording, but payback would not.

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On "Payback" - what if Dengar is defeated?  Can he still fire back like a Hired Gun can?

No. The wording is after the attack resolves, so he would be defeated and removed, thus no attack. Parting shot specifically ignores this problem with its wording, but payback would not.

 

Hopefully this will not throw the thread off, but I just played a casual skirmish game. It was the one from Han's ally pack. The special rules say the thugs move 2 spaces toward a hostile figure. If the thug ends adjacent to a figure, that figure suffers 2 damage. My question: So the thug ended adjacent to a hired gun and IG-88. The thug killed the hired gun, who in return killed him. So would IG-88 suffer 2 damage?

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On "Payback" - what if Dengar is defeated?  Can he still fire back like a Hired Gun can?

No. The wording is after the attack resolves, so he would be defeated and removed, thus no attack. Parting shot specifically ignores this problem with its wording, but payback would not.

 

Hopefully this will not throw the thread off, but I just played a casual skirmish game. It was the one from Han's ally pack. The special rules say the thugs move 2 spaces toward a hostile figure. If the thug ends adjacent to a figure, that figure suffers 2 damage. My question: So the thug ended adjacent to a hired gun and IG-88. The thug killed the hired gun, who in return killed him. So would IG-88 suffer 2 damage?

 

 

Its hard to say without seeing the actual wording. But it sounds like both IG and the hired gun would take 2 damage.

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Thinking from mainly a skirmish point of view.

Meh, 1 point less than 2 royal guard, has the same basic minimum range to attack, is less survivable. Only bonus is a 1 square (on average) range better range and more reliable at landing the stun.

Hell, rebels get 2 Elite Sabs for that price.

At best he's worth 5 points (6 would be pushing it). With support, he could work, but he's just another overpriced merc.

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His ability (and likelihood) of doing two harmful conditions per attack make his deployment cost reasonable, IMO.  This would essentially take most figures out of commission for a round even if the damage from his attack doesn't finish them off.  It doesn't necessarily translate well to fighting a horde-based opponent with lots of figures, but conditions are not to be taken lightly.

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His ability (and likelihood) of doing two harmful conditions per attack make his deployment cost reasonable, IMO.  This would essentially take most figures out of commission for a round even if the damage from his attack doesn't finish them off.  It doesn't necessarily translate well to fighting a horde-based opponent with lots of figures, but conditions are not to be taken lightly.

This is probably the key reason: they didn't want the IP to be able to bring him in for a single round of threat late in the campaign when he can so thoroughly wreck a hero's day, hence the cost of 7.

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@Nograth: 

If that would be the reason they could just keep the way of seperate deployment cards for skirmish and campaign as they do with R2 and leia

Not really, they only use different cards when there are mechanics that are entirely incompatible with one mode of the game.

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