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PaulTiberius

Does Dorsal Turret suddenly become the best option for BTL-A4 "Warthogs"?

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Dorsal turret works exactly like a 2-dice primary turret except your range 3 targets don't get a bonus.

Range 1: 3 dice

Range 2-3: 2 dice

Hmm, nice budget turret that isn't the meh Autoblaster turret or Blaster Turret. Stresshog just got a buff, always 2 stress regardless of range.

 

 

nah it has no range 3

 

otherwise it'd just be a better-than-PWT

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I have trouble with the Dorsal Turret BTL-A4 over the Ion Cannon version for only 2 points more.  The Dorsal is rarely doing more damage, and you lose the great control effect.  At 20 points you hit that sweet break point where you could take 5, but it's 21 points.  I guess if you take, say, 2 or 3 of them supporting something else that leaves you 4-6 more points for the something else.  The other problem is that they're really only sort of scary at range 1, at which point you could get an ABT and be actually scary at Range 1.  There's just not many things that you'll commonly catch at Range 2 that a 2-dice attack is going to have a major effect on.  I guess it's slightly less than the firepower of 2 Z95s for slightly less than the cost of 2 Z-95s, but less durability and blocking than 2 Z-95s.  

 

I guess I don't see it going anywhere with BTL-A4.  

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I have trouble with the Dorsal Turret BTL-A4 over the Ion Cannon version for only 2 points more.  The Dorsal is rarely doing more damage, and you lose the great control effect.  At 20 points you hit that sweet break point where you could take 5, but it's 21 points.  I guess if you take, say, 2 or 3 of them supporting something else that leaves you 4-6 more points for the something else.  The other problem is that they're really only sort of scary at range 1, at which point you could get an ABT and be actually scary at Range 1.  There's just not many things that you'll commonly catch at Range 2 that a 2-dice attack is going to have a major effect on.  I guess it's slightly less than the firepower of 2 Z95s for slightly less than the cost of 2 Z-95s, but less durability and blocking than 2 Z-95s.  

 

I guess I don't see it going anywhere with BTL-A4.

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I'm sticking with TLTs and ICTs for my Ys.

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 Range 1, 4 dice turret!

Wow wonder what that's like.

 

 

Oh, wait.

 

 

 

Joking aside, I seriously don't see what the fuss is about. Dorsal Turret looks like the most useless of the cards they revealed today. I almost feel like they had to make it worse than they wanted just so they could say it isn't power creep over the Blaster Turret. With 3 attack at range 1, and 2 attack at range 2, and NO ATTACK at range 3, I'm left thinking about how amazing the primary weapons of the YT-2400 and K-wing are... and how much better they would be if they couldn't shoot at range 3. /sarcasm 

 

It's also still not even close in my mind w/ BTL. Ion and TLT easily have the top spots, Autoblaster is meh but fun when it happens, and Dorsal looks.... very meh.

 

Not sure at all why OP is asking if it's "suddenly the best option". All it is to me is a sudden, yet mediocre improvement over the Blaster Turret.

Edited by Kdubb

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 Range 1, 4 dice turret!

Wow wonder what that's like.

 

 

Oh, wait.

 

 

 

Joking aside, I seriously don't see what the fuss is about. Dorsal Turret looks like the most useless of the cards they revealed today. I almost feel like they had to make it worse than they wanted just so they could say it isn't power creep over the Blaster Turret. With 3 attack at range 1, and 2 attack at range 2, and NO ATTACK at range 3, I'm left thinking about how amazing the primary weapons of the YT-2400 and K-wing are... and how much better they would be if they couldn't shoot at range 3. /sarcasm

 

 

Well if you want to pay (in points and other tradeoffs) for a YT-2400 or K-wing, then you're not the target market for a Warthog, which is the point of this thread. Getting to attack twice, at two different targets if you choose, is what a Warthog does. And without turret functionality. So your sarcasm in comparing various out-of-arc weapons platforms is in the wrong thread.

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It's also still not even close in my mind w/ BTL. Ion and TLT easily have the top spots, Autoblaster is meh but fun when it happens, and Dorsal looks.... very meh.

 

Not sure at all why OP is asking if it's "suddenly the best option". All it is to me is a sudden, yet mediocre improvement over the Blaster Turret.

 

 

I am appreciating the commentary from everyone on why Dorsal *isn't* the best Warthog option according to various strains of thought.

 

But I don't see how Dorsal Turret is just a "mediocre improvement" over the Blaster Turret. It represents a series of tradeoffs that we see in all of the Turret upgrades so far...

 

DT (vs BT): Keep your Focus, but lose a die at Range 2.

 

TLT: Get to shoot twice, but only top out at 2 damage.

 

ABT: Get uncancellable hit results, but lose shots beyond Range 1.

 

ICT: Get the extra benefit of ion, but only land 1 damage.

 

It's all very elegant, and the options all seem to stay within a pretty well-bounded realm of possibilities, with their respective point costs not wildly out of order. I don't know if Mathwingers have a "turretting value" like "jousting value" has been computed, but I'd be intrigued to see some numerical analysis. When considering point cost, peak damage output and synergy, I really look forward to trying a group of Warthogs with Dorsal Turrets in the mix.

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well, BTL is not that useless on Y that is not a stresshog.

hoping for that R1 attack is a hard bet in a world of PS6+ everything.

WIth Y-wings maneuverability it's not that good.

 

plus to that "damage tops at" is not the right way to measure things.

 

TLT does it's 2 damage to most targets on a regular basis, while here 2 damage going through is NOT reliable.

+TLT doesn't fear the token-stacks. Falcons with their C3POs and evade tokens and Isards on decimators cripple the damage output of the dorsals heavily.

 

Nah, it's fun, but doesn't come close to TLT.

 

it's "how blaster should have been made" in the first place.

Edited by Warpman

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well, BTL is not that useless on Y that is not a stresshog.

hoping for that R1 attack is a hard bet in a world of PS6+ everything.

WIth Y-wings maneuverability it's not that good.

 

plus to that "damage tops at" is not the right way to measure things.

 

TLT does it's 2 damage to most targets on a regular basis, while here 2 damage going through is NOT reliable.

+TLT doesn't fear the token-stacks. Falcons with their C3POs and evade tokens and Isards on decimators cripple the damage output of the dorsals heavily.

 

Nah, it's fun, but doesn't come close to TLT.

 

it's "how blaster should have been made" in the first place.

 

I guess my experience with TLT hasn't been so great. Lots of blank dice, and little chance to modify.

 

But I'm not going to say you're wrong.

 

The only thing is ... to get to be as good as it is, TLT costs twice as much!

 

 

Side note: what about "damage tops at" makes it a bad way to measure similar things? I'm not using it as a sole metric, as I think my OP makes obvious.

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It's also still not even close in my mind w/ BTL. Ion and TLT easily have the top spots, Autoblaster is meh but fun when it happens, and Dorsal looks.... very meh.

 

Not sure at all why OP is asking if it's "suddenly the best option". All it is to me is a sudden, yet mediocre improvement over the Blaster Turret.

 

 

I am appreciating the commentary from everyone on why Dorsal *isn't* the best Warthog option according to various strains of thought.

 

But I don't see how Dorsal Turret is just a "mediocre improvement" over the Blaster Turret. It represents a series of tradeoffs that we see in all of the Turret upgrades so far...

 

DT (vs BT): Keep your Focus, but lose a die at Range 2.

 

TLT: Get to shoot twice, but only top out at 2 damage.

 

ABT: Get uncancellable hit results, but lose shots beyond Range 1.

 

ICT: Get the extra benefit of ion, but only land 1 damage.

 

It's all very elegant, and the options all seem to stay within a pretty well-bounded realm of possibilities, with their respective point costs not wildly out of order. I don't know if Mathwingers have a "turretting value" like "jousting value" has been computed, but I'd be intrigued to see some numerical analysis. When considering point cost, peak damage output and synergy, I really look forward to trying a group of Warthogs with Dorsal Turrets in the mix.

 

Ok I'll admit I was giving Blaster Turret more than it's due by saying Dorsal turret was a "mediocre improvement" over it. There are some synergies that make it usable though, like Rec Spec, R4 Agro, Moldy Crow... Still not a great option. And I apologize for the beginning of my post being off from the topic's focus specifically on the BTL title. Was more replying to the individual post.

 

It's possible I just have some heavy hate for the idea behind a turret that is throwing two attack at range 2. It just seems like so little.

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Ok I'll admit I was giving Blaster Turret more than it's due by saying Dorsal turret was a "mediocre improvement" over it. There are some synergies that make it usable though, like Rec Spec, R4 Agro, Moldy Crow... Still not a great option. And I apologize for the beginning of my post being off from the topic's focus specifically on the BTL title. Was more replying to the individual post.

 

It's possible I just have some heavy hate for the idea behind a turret that is throwing two attack at range 2. It just seems like so little.

 

 

Apology accepted ...

 

Heh. Never gotten to say that on a Star Wars forum. You know the rest. ;)

 

Anyway, I don't have any special hate for Blaster Turret. On a RecSpec Moldy Crow, the worst thing about it is just the annoyance factor of having to remember to spend a focus token. And I had a lot of fun putting it on WartHorton in an Epic game that will be remembered down through the ages ... supported by Jan's extra die and a Rebel Transport's action and focus token assist ... a combined 8 attack dice at times!

 

I see your point on how wimpy it *feels* to have to pay for a 2-dice secondary weapon at Range 2. But truly, that's why I posed the question that started this thread ... because Warthog seemed like the best use for this card. And it's so cheap for its damage output.

 

 

Another thought ....

 

How does it compare with Hot Shot Blaster?? Same cost. Unlimited use. Lose one attack die at Range 2. Interesting design tradeoffs.

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I feel like Dorsal Turret is a good card, but I'd rather not have it be fixed forward with BTL-A4. You cover so much area with the turret and you basically keep your primary weapon value. If I knew I could stay at range 1, I'd go for Autoblaster, but since that can be tough to do, this card gives you compensation by at least letting you attack at range 2. And you also get 3 dice at range 1. 

 

Honestly, I like Ion Cannon Turret better for both turret and BTL-A4 Y-wings. but having a 3-point turret option will be nice and I can see myself throwing this in when an Ion Cannon Turret just won't fit.

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Heh, definitely going to try out four Spice Runner Hawks (16) with Dorsal Turrets (3), Tactician (2), Cloaking Device (2), and Stygium Particle Accelerator (2) :-)

 

The cloaking device is unique, sorry :)

 

 

Darn it!  There goes my dream list.

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