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ZigwardStardust

Screed can only get better. Is this a problem?

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So I know we all love to speculate wildly about the future here, so do any of you think Screed will at some point be too good?
 

What I mean is, every time FFG prints a new upgrade with a new crit effect, Screed gets another option.  And a ship like the Raider can trigger any Blue or Black crit effect nearly automatically(minus some evading) for a fairly small point investment.  A raider with OP plus an Avenger ISD seems pretty powerful already. 


To keep the discussion calm and level-headed I am going to preemptively declare that the game will be unplayable 2 waves from now.


 

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he really doesn't, though

 

ACM and OLP are still top of the crit totem-pole, with only Assault Proton Torpedoes contesting their place

 

all he's really benefited from are the Raiders (particularly the Raider-2 w/OLP)

 

 

meanwhile, everyone has gotten the means to absolutely obliterate GSDs (ISD-2s with gunnery team and Akbar fatties, also with gunnery team)

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So I know we all love to speculate wildly about the future here, so do any of you think Screed will at some point be too good?

 

What I mean is, every time FFG prints a new upgrade with a new crit effect, Screed gets another option.  And a ship like the Raider can trigger any Blue or Black crit effect nearly automatically(minus some evading) for a fairly small point investment.  A raider with OP plus an Avenger ISD seems pretty powerful already. 

To keep the discussion calm and level-headed I am going to preemptively declare that the game will be unplayable 2 waves from now.

 

 

Screed to gets affect each ship only once per activation, and his ability triggers before the Evade defense token, which triggers before the critical effect is resolved.

 

Further, he has no efffect at all on any other dice.  You can still get a crappy roll with one crit and it won't have a tremendous impact.

 

Screed is good, but he's hardly the peak choice for Imperials unless you are 100% dependent on getting a critical every single activation. 

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Screed works so much better with black dice for two reasons: 1) your odds of having a blank to spend are better and 2) the black dice critical sides also feature a hit, so his ability not only triggers crits but also improves damage (or at the very least does not diminish it and turns on crits). He's not nearly so good with blue dice and is moderately better with red dice (due to the blank sides being cheap Screed fodder).

 

I feel like the Raider-II+Overload Pulse and ISD-X+Avenger combination is certainly useful but it's overrated. It's expensive and very predictable. You're generally wasting Screed on the ISD (the only useful crit-dependent upgrade there might be the XX9s which... are okay, I guess?). You're better off in raw damage just running Gladiators and Raiders with ACMs/APs for the same points cost and proccing all the black crits ever.

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The cool thing about Screed is in fact that he works on a feature (crit) that triggers other features (crit effects) instead than other commanders like Mothma or Tarkin that work on "end point" features like defense tokens.

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Screed is not, and has never been the "best" admiral.

He has for some time been the "easiest" admiral, in the sense of his very straightforward "Front toward enemy" approach and natural combo with the Gladiator and ACMs.

If anything, his usefulness has become somewhat dilute with the addition of Vader, who offers the opposite end of the spectrum damage-wise (Much greater potential damage vs lesser guaranteed damage) and new Crit effects and platforms to carry them encouraging people to diversify their Screeding from JUST ACMs. (NK-7s, Raiders)

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being able to land the OLPs to trigger avenger may be a pipe dream.  lets be honest here.

 

you also talking at least 2 ships activations to pull this off.  it may be better in imperial mirror matches due to the general tactic of "Does thou joust?"  rebels are too slippery to catch in that net and if you see tractor beams you bet your arse they will be camping nav token until the combo can be broken or they only lose like a c90. 

 

Its a good combo but easily mitigate-able by savvy adversaries.  I feel imperial ships are meant to be self sufficient in almost every way, which this synergy can work it relies on your opponent too much I feel.  I could be very wrong.  Why not invest those points in more a sure thing that wont rely on your opponents positioning.

 

its tough to say but play it and see if it works, but also make sure you are playing good people as well.  dont just curb stomp newbs and be like OMG this works.  if someone in your meta is at your skill level or higher play them a few times.  you should do this in general as this is the best way to get better.  if it works against players who are at your skill or higher than i am wrong.  take it to a tournament and see if it works. 

 

screed is not OP, if anything tarkin is.  We all forgot about Tarkin bucks in wave1 but ive played a few games with him again with 2-3 ships and its gloriously efficient. 

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To keep the discussion calm and level-headed I am going to preemptively declare that the game will be unplayable 2 waves from now.

 

This statement doesn't make any sense for how outrageous it is. It certainly won't be screeds' fault if the game becomes unplayable, and if X-Wing is any indication the game has a long life ahead of it before it becomes unweildly.

 

The more critical effect cards are out there the more screed is going to shift from general damage admiral to utility admiral. With more ships released and less of them like the Gladiator, Screed is going to increasingly become an option to consider when you have a favorite critical effect card you want to guarantee will trigger, and you'll turn to Screed.

 

One example I can think of is a small pack of Raider-IIs armed with NK-7s. Aim a couple of them at your most hated enemy and suddenly he's down two defense tokens. Since NK-7s is a may you can even switch them to dealing standard critical damage and preventing horrible dice rolls by generating at least one critical damage per attack. If you're using your Raiders to set up a bigger ship hammer then Screed is an option even if you don't have a Gladiator in your fleet.

Edited by Norsehound

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I was thinking 6 gsd1s with screed. 4 acm and 2 apt. Hehe seems fun.

Given that ACMs work by rapidly depleting shields until it's just splash damage hammering the hull and APTs work by partially ignoring shields I would recommend you stick to all one or the other.

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I was thinking 6 gsd1s with screed. 4 acm and 2 apt. Hehe seems fun.

Given that ACMs work by rapidly depleting shields until it's just splash damage hammering the hull and APTs work by partially ignoring shields I would recommend you stick to all one or the other.

I think that list composition was probably because ACMs are too expensive for six in the list and APTs... Well... If you have six right now then you have six MC30c.

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I was thinking 6 gsd1s with screed. 4 acm and 2 apt. Hehe seems fun.

Given that ACMs work by rapidly depleting shields until it's just splash damage hammering the hull and APTs work by partially ignoring shields I would recommend you stick to all one or the other.

 

 

Thank you, you put this much more succinctly than I've been able to yet.  I keep seeing lists that disregard this in favor of just sticking the current golden boy APT on everything.  I mean, it's not bad to use APT in a list without guaranteed accuracies or XI7s... it's just not as good as ACM.

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To keep the discussion calm and level-headed I am going to preemptively declare that the game will be unplayable 2 waves from now.

 

This statement doesn't make any sense for how outrageous it is. It certainly won't be screeds' fault if the game becomes unplayable, and if X-Wing is any indication the game has a long life ahead of it before it becomes unweildly.

His last paragraph was meant as humor.

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To keep the discussion calm and level-headed I am going to preemptively declare that the game will be unplayable 2 waves from now.

 

This statement doesn't make any sense for how outrageous it is. It certainly won't be screeds' fault if the game becomes unplayable, and if X-Wing is any indication the game has a long life ahead of it before it becomes unweildly.

His last paragraph was meant as humor.

 

 

Didn't work then. :D

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Screed is pretty good, but won't likely ever be "too" good.   Vader kinda trumps him, to an extent.   If your build DEPENDS on the crit, then maybe go Screed, but even so, Vader is almost certainly going to give you crits as well.   More of a 90% chance depending on how many dice you roll. 

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I would actually argue the opposite--that Screed could potentially get worse or at least, overall, won't get any better.  As each new wave comes out, new Admirals will be released.  Every list that is running Screed is not running a new Admiral.  The selection of Admiral is probably the most impactful individual choice you'll make for your fleet.  Each time you run Screed, you're not running one of the other Admirals; as we get more Admirals, that opportunity cost goes up.  Hell, even the two Admirals he used to compete against have gotten better in Wave 2.

 

He'll always be good in lists designed around getting a specific crit, and that's cool; it provides an interesting gameplay style.  But he won't be good everywhere, and that's okay, too.  Nobody says Montferrat is bad because he doesn't help you 5 VSD list--Montferrat obviously isn't designed for that list!  Same thing will be true with Screed--he'll settle into his place.

 

Yes, there's always the possibility that FFG will release some horribly overpowered crit effect that Screed can cheese six ways to Sunday, but I don't think that's too likely to happen.  One of the most positive aspects about his ability from a balance perspective is that it's straightforward and easy to balance around--it doesn't require some crazy or obscure combo that might be missed in design or playtesting.  When designing a crit, it is assumed that the Imperials will be able to activate it on all of their ships every round.  Is that too good?  Then it's back to the drawing board.

 

 

Edit: a word.

Edited by LazorBeems

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