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I Solely Play Casual... and Still Have a 20% Win Rate!

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It's not pleasant to hear critiques like these, but it's what I need to hear. Card games have me trained to maximize abilities as much as possible and strive for combos. And if I gave my team building more time, I might be able to do that (without overlooking game elements that would really help, or straying off topic). But those combos don't pay off the same way in a game like this.

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It's not pleasant to hear critiques like these, but it's what I need to hear. Card games have me trained to maximize abilities as much as possible and strive for combos. And if I gave my team building more time, I might be able to do that (without overlooking game elements that would really help, or straying off topic). But those combos don't pay off the same way in a game like this.

Personally, I find combos hard to pull off in card games as well (speaking of SW:LCG). The trick is finding a combo that works for you. A combo I really enjoy is putting Serissu, Graz the Hunter, Laetin A'shera together with Stealth Devices. I also have a Z-95 as filler. If the dice cooperate, this can be a super frustrating list. If the dice don't cooperate, it falls apart like a house of cards. But it's still fun and has earned me a 100-0 victory. Is it tournament level good? No, but it's fun, which I think is what you're going for.

 

In regards to your 100-point list, you have some anti-synergy going on. Etahn will let Eaden turn a hit into a crit, but the Ion Cannon will cancel all dice results to deal 1 damage. That means Etahn only buffs Cracken or will buff Eaden if Eaden ignores his 3-point cannon. I think Recon Specialist would be a better use of your 3 points than the Ion Cannon. 

 

I highly recommend you try a swarm. I felt the same as you did for a while, where I just wasn't winning and wasn't able to push enough damage through. Increasing the number of ships in my lists has made a big difference. I'm finding I actually like swarmy lists quite a lot.

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Eaden with Ion cannon is, I propose, an example of a sort of Cardinal sin in X-wing list building, one that feels seductively right: trying to make one ship into a "dual threat."

The thinking is that you want a particular ship able to accomplish two situationally distinct tasks that cannot be accomplished simultaneously. Sounds good, but it's actually bad list building. It locks that ship into having wasted value in any given round of combat.

Your ships will die. You have to accept that.

Your ships will get maybe five opportunities to attack before they die. You have to plan for that.

That means you can't really afford to have one set of upgrade values work only in three Attack opportunities, while the rest of that ship's upgrades work only in the other two. All points spent on a ship offensively should have the ability to work together in a single attack. So Horton ideally gets either Proton Torpedos OR a Twin Laser Turret, not both. Having the "backup" secondary capability is just a points sink.

There are reasons to defy this idea, such as in Brobots lists, or if you have a specific tactical deployment plan that assumes you will be able to keep one ship alive until the endgame.

But as a rule, you should stay away from it.

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Find a comfortable style of list build and stick with it. If your struggling during setup or having to set a bunch of dials, scale down the size of your squad. If you find you keep forgetting to use upgrades, scale those back. Once I figured out my comfort level and stuck with it, I started winning more marches. 

 

I also go into a match not concerned about winning or losing. It helps me focus on the task at hand.

 

I agree with this.  It's not necessarily which ships you take, but maybe more how many you take and how you fit them out.  As silly as it sounds, I had to work out what my brain could handle in terms of numbers and upgrades.  There is a sweet spot where I can manage "X" number of ships packing "Y' number of upgrades, including synergistic builds, to their full effect.

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I find that a good rule of thumb in list building is to ask myself two questions: "does upgrade X enhance the use of other upgrades and pilot abilities?" and "can I use every upgrade and pilot ability in the same turn?"

100 Point Stress Theme (W1)YT-2400: Eaden Vrill (32)

-Ion Cannon (3)

-Tactical Jammer (1)

-Gunner (5)

Z-95 Headhunter: Airen Cracken (19)

-Decoy (2)

E-Wing: Etahn A'baht (32)

-Sensor Jammer (4)

-R3-A2 (2)150 Point Evade Theme (L1)Y-Wing: "Dutch" Vander (23)

-Autoblaster Turret (2)

-R7 Astromech (2)

-BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Y-Wing: Horton Salm (25)

-Ion Torpedoes (5)

-R4-D6 (1)

A-Wing: Gemmer Sojan (22)

-Chardaan Refit (-2)

B-Wing: Nera Dantels (26)

-Predator (3)

-Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6)

-Enhanced Scopes (1)

YT-2400: Wild Space Fringer (30)

-"Mangler" Cannon (4)

-Jan Ors (2)

Here are my thoughts on your 100 point list:

- Decoy here swaps PS3, 5 and 8, but most people go for PS1-2 generics, PS9+ or a combination of those, so most will already be shooting before/after all your ships anyway, making for two wasted points in most match ups. In fact, you'd want Etahn to shoot before Vrill (using the stressbot to give an extra die) so using it to trade the biggest PS difference actually impedes your synergy.

- The ion cannon on Vrill means that he's incapable of ionizing an enemy and attacking with an extra die with his ability. Gunner with a 2-dice primary doesn't improve your damage output much either.

- R3-A2 is on your list's hardest hitter, and is the only upgrade that enables Vrill's pilot ability. This means that you're putting all your eggs in one basket, though tactical jammer helps in that aspect if you can make use of it. Furthermore you're limiting your hardest hitter to green maneuvers, making him predictable. Save the stressbot for a ship your opponent wouldn't normally want to shoot at.

- While I personally love sensor jammer, there's not much here that it helps you with except against TLTs as there's nothing in your list that stops your opponent from focusing every turn.

Also, keep in mind that if everything in your list works as planned, you have a maximum damage output of 8 hits per turn at range 2-3 (if your opponent totally blanks all of his defense rolls). A 7-TIE swarm and bbbbz have 14, RAC/Fel and Dash/Corran have only 6 or 7 but have the advantage of moving last and/or being maneuverable enough to not get shot at.

As for the 150 point list, well, people agree that most missiles/torpedoes are kind of crap, but apart from that...

- I find that the autoblaster turret is difficult enough to use on a Y-Wing without restricting it to the forward arc.

- Advanced Proton Torpedoes already do you the favor of turning blanks to eyeballs, so why would you reroll them with predator? Find a way to get focus+TL (via FCS or Dutch) or two focus tokens (with deadeye and recon specialist).

- To use R7 on Dutch you have to sacrifice your damage output. On Tarn it's awesome as he can focus but here it's not that handy. It might work on a ship like Biggs who Dutch/Cracken can give free TLs to, but not on Dutch himself, and even less when other ships depend on his ability to fire their ordnance. I'd drop the title and take R7-T1 instead to get in close and/or boost out of arc of generics*.

- Jan Ors crew does nothing on the first combat turn as people will either focus fire another target without the evade, or will shoot at that ship with 150 points worth of attack dice and kill it anyway. Oh and evading will also give you a nerfed attack because of it.

- Why not give Horton a TLT? That way he can be a consistent threat at range 2-3 instead of only when he shoots his torpedoes. His ability will be wasted on two-dice attacks for the rest of the match.

- A-Wings need actions both to survive and to have a chance at dealing consistent damage (not counting prototype blockers), so Gemmer needs PtL and probably autothrustors too.

Dutch enables your torpedo use here but does little damage himself. Gemmer and Horton (after launching his torpedo) will be ignored in favor of killing Nera in the first combat turn from range 2-3 before the APT can go off. Once she's down your PS2 YT will be the hardest hitter and only from range 1 or in arc, reducing it's mobility to attack with more dice.

*One thing to note is that as you get to higher point caps, it's generally better to spend more on generics as it's tougher to arc dodge due to clutter and basically any ship can go down in a single round of firing.

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The "too cute with manoeuvres" thing is easy to do. Yes, all right, I know where you're going - but if it's a heavier fighter, that still doesn't necessarily help. Knowing that Keyan Farlander is going to blast your ass all over local space next turn doesn't help unless you can figure out a way to stop it.

 

So... if you're much better at maneuvering, what is it that actually goes wrong?

 

There are - to my mind - 6 real 'chunks' of X-wing.

 

  1. Building your list
  2. 'Turn Zero' - where you set up obstacles and where you set up your squad
  3. 'Opening Turns' - how you manoeuvre up to turn 2-3 (when the first shots are exchanged) against a given 'style' of squad (a swarm, a big ship, arc-dodging aces, etc)
  4. Target priority in the first couple of rounds (when you still have a full squad and your one-use weapons)
  5. Manoeuvre in the furball - you can't plan more than a turn or two in advance at this point
  6. Being able to roll the Octahedrons of Inevitable Betrayal correctly

You've already said you can cope with (5) better than your opponents, and that whilst you're not too bothered about (1), nor are they. So which of the others is where it goes wrong?

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I find that in this situation there are but two key pieces of advice I can offer.

 

The first is practice, practice, practice...  the more you play this game the better you are.  I know that seems fairly simple and not very helpful at first, but in the end it is the truth.  The more you play the better you are.  Set up obstacles courses at home to learn to fly and not hit rocks or other ship.

 

Second, I would recommend picking one list and sticking with it for at least 10 games, making only minor adjustments in upgrades and not switching out ships.  Find a list that works for you and stick with it.  You'd be surprised how much you can learn by running the same list over and over again, you pick up on you're list's strengths and learn to play to them.  

4 ship Rebel builds are good right now so find 4 ships you really like to fly and stick with them.  B-Wings w/Fire Control Systems and Y-Wings with TLTs (Twin Laser Turrets from the K-Wing expansion) are really good right now.  Start there.  While the X-Wings isn't super hot right now (waiting on the T-70 Expansion), Biggs and Wedge are always going to be superstars!  And let's not forget the T-70 from the Force Awakens stater, Poe is super hot right now.  Either with R2D2 or R3-A9 (I prefer R2-D2 as his ability can not be blocked).  Fill the final ship with something small to block and basically annoy your opponent, Zs work great in this role and are excellent blockers.

There are a lot of strategies to pick up from this game, from the simple and obvious like focusing down a ship until it is dead, to learning how to bait with one ship while the rest of your squad attacks from the flank.  All the way to crazy stuff like the arc dodgers, or the fat turrets.

And doing what you did here will go a long way, asking for help.  Most of us here are more then willing to give out tips or pointers.  

And of course, if you have any free time you want to fill with even more X-Wing knowledge, might I recommend a podcast or two, to get even more ideas from...

 

I know a few good ones out there...  :)

 

I hope this helps!

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Do you play around with a list builder when you aren't playing?  I use (Yet Another) Squad Builder all the time and if I'm not sure why something is working well for someone, I'll put the list in so I can see what is happening.  Be careful with naming as it can be easy to have a lot of them.  Often, I'll just build it and not save it unless it is something I would fly.  I also put in all of Paul Heaver's lists when I see them primarily so I know what won the last championship but also so I can know what I expect others to fly soon enough.  

The best part of it is I don't have to stress about what I am building when I get to a game.  I have something in mind and go pull those cards.  Easy to pull up on my phone (not the best view, but it works for what I need) no matter where I am at and concise enough that if I am not going to have cell service, I can do a screenshot and still build my list.  If I didn't have something to focus my building effort when I got to the location, I would be in trouble.  I would feel time pressure as others are pulling their decks and ships together while I'm trying to decide who to fly, much less what to put on them.  List building is half the fun.  I get doing it with friends, but to be honest, if I'm looking at cards while doing it, I can spend an hour on a single list and still may overlook something essential.  Another thing that YASB is good at is keeping current on your inventory.  It will tell you if you have the cards to fly what you are building or not, which is essential in my book.

The other part that got me about this post / title... you actually track your win / loss rate on casual games? *boggle* 

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I will give you my observation.  I often lose in the games I have played.  I rarely get to play, so my experience is lacking, but I know why I often lose.  I don't anticipate my opponents moves.  I was a lousy chess player for the same reason.

 

I still have fun each time I play win or lose.

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It's not pleasant to hear critiques like these, but it's what I need to hear. Card games have me trained to maximize abilities as much as possible and strive for combos. And if I gave my team building more time, I might be able to do that (without overlooking game elements that would really help, or straying off topic). But those combos don't pay off the same way in a game like this.

 

You mentioned card games teaching you maximizing abilities and going for combos, but then your squad was counter to that logic. The squad build is just as important as flying. Anti-synergistic squads flown perfect will still be crushed majority of the time, which is what you are describing.

 

Yes you can play casually, but here is tip number 1: The game is NOT balanced. The "Metagame" has the best "Balance" it has ever had, but that does NOT mean you can just throw your squad together.

 

There are ships and upgrades that are mathematically over-costed based on comparisons to the other cards in the game. On top of that IF you play an upgrade or ship and that is NOT synergistic to your squad you are squandering the actual value of your ship or upgrade. Example would be Ethan is NOT worth his point IF you are not maximizing his ability. Thus you wasted the points it took to field him. (On top of E-Wings being slightly over-costed to begin with)

 

So your 100 point squad is really the output of a 60 point squad or less for example...You might win some games, but the opponent would have to be playing an equally un-synergistic squad or lots of luck might sway things..

 

Here's your card game comparison: The comparison to Magic the Gathering (Hopefully a card game you know..)  would be having a bunch of 5-6 mana awesome creatures and a bunch of spells that draw cards and pump up creatures...You might lose the game before you get to a turn where you can get a creature out, and your cards that help you draw don't help since you can't cast the creatures you are drawing yet, and your pump spells don't do anything until you've got a creature down. BUT you are awesome in combat and have good instincts on what the opponent might be doing and you don't make dumb play mistakes. Of course your deck is terrible so you might lose 8 of 10 games. You win the 2 where you opponent didn't do much and you finally dropped some creatures..

 

And the deck wasn't terrible because it was casual and not some net deck, but rather because it made no sense the way it was built.

 

In my opinion XWing is 50% Flying and Positioning Overall, 40% Squad Build and Match-Ups, and 10% Luck.

 

I am not advising against casual, but you have to realize that playing truly casual means you do NOT care about winning. IF you want to win you need to fly a squad with some synergy and yes possibly think about the Meta and what your opponents might play. If your squad gets hopelessly killed by Soontir Fel or Whisper then you should prolly do something about that or get ready to have fun losing.

 

Aside from actual squad building, a few tips that I live by and helped me early on especially:

 

1. Focus on the damage output of your squad overall.: Realize that you can field 4 Bs and a Z which throw 14 Dice total, or a TIE Swarm which shoots 14 dice with 7 TIEs, Bro Bots with 2 ships shoots 8, but they usually get re-rolls and target locks to maximize their damage output every turn. 6 is the lowest offense I have been successful with, but it was with highly durable ships and dealing crits. Your 100 point squad only shot 7-8 dice which is very fringe and on teh low end. You had some things to maximize, but not anywhere near as consistent as BroBots or 4 TLT ships for example, which is in your damage total wheel house for comparison's sake.

 

2. Focus on a juicy target and prioritize properly: This was already said, but is huge. Splitting your damage or going after the wrong target makes a massive difference.

 

3. Don't pay for green dice: Ships with lots of green dice can be very fickle. Increasing the percentage that the match-up, your squad build, and that luck will play. Tanky ships where you pay for hull and shield instead of green dice, are more forgiving and actually mitigate some of the luck factor and can give you time to turn the tables.

 

There's a lot more I can get into, but you look to be recieveing lots of feedback as it is..:) Good hunting!

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The other part that got me about this post / title... you actually track your win / loss rate on casual games? *boggle*

That was in response to my feeling like I wasn't doing a very good job with list building. I build my fleets in one of the apps available, and it allows for tracking of wins and losses. It was only recently that I started using that feature, but it is giving me something to reflect on.

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100 Point Stress Theme (W1)

YT-2400: Eaden Vrill (32)

-Ion Cannon (3)

-Tactical Jammer (1)

-Gunner (5)

Z-95 Headhunter: Airen Cracken (19)

-Decoy (2)

E-Wing: Etahn A'baht (32)

-Sensor Jammer (4)

-R3-A2 (2)

The 100 point squadron you posted is exactly what I'm talking about. As another poster said, it's a bunch of expensive cutesy stuff. That list is not only expensive cutesy stuff, but it's not even built properly to take advantage of what you're trying to do.

For example: Eaden Vrill gets extra attack dice for doing /primary/ weapon attacks on a stressed ship. So why does he have an ion cannon? And why isn't the stressbot in the list on a ship that can only attack once? Why not put R3-A2 on Corran or a BTL-A4 Y-Wing? What is Airen Cracken doing in the list at all?

The 100 point list has the attacking power of like 4-5 TIE Fighters and similar durability.

I'm not saying you have to build A+ lists and autowin games with Super Dash or Super Corran against your casual friends, but build lists that are B- lists at least. Something like double Firespray or quad Scyk or triple Defender or Etahn and 5 Z's or Biggs Luke Wedge. Stuff that's decent and fun but not game breaking. It's just list building that's holding you back it seems.

 

Part of the problem with a game that has this much depth is that it is getting nearly impossible to know the synergies and combos.  As good as X-Wing is this has been discussed at length.  Playing with minimal or no upgrades is a good way to play for playing casual but not a good way to win against someone simply better at combos.

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100 Point Stress Theme (W1)YT-2400: Eaden Vrill (32)

-Ion Cannon (3)

-Tactical Jammer (1)

-Gunner (5)Z-95 Headhunter: Airen Cracken (19)

-Decoy (2)E-Wing: Etahn A'baht (32)

-Sensor Jammer (4)

-R3-A2 (2)

The 100 point squadron you posted is exactly what I'm talking about. As another poster said, it's a bunch of expensive cutesy stuff. That list is not only expensive cutesy stuff, but it's not even built properly to take advantage of what you're trying to do.

For example: Eaden Vrill gets extra attack dice for doing /primary/ weapon attacks on a stressed ship. So why does he have an ion cannon? And why isn't the stressbot in the list on a ship that can only attack once? Why not put R3-A2 on Corran or a BTL-A4 Y-Wing? What is Airen Cracken doing in the list at all?

The 100 point list has the attacking power of like 4-5 TIE Fighters and similar durability.

I'm not saying you have to build A+ lists and autowin games with Super Dash or Super Corran against your casual friends, but build lists that are B- lists at least. Something like double Firespray or quad Scyk or triple Defender or Etahn and 5 Z's or Biggs Luke Wedge. Stuff that's decent and fun but not game breaking. It's just list building that's holding you back it seems.

Part of the problem with a game that has this much depth is that it is getting nearly impossible to know the synergies and combos.  As good as X-Wing is this has been discussed at length.  Playing with minimal or no upgrades is a good way to play for playing casual but not a good way to win against someone simply better at combos.

That's a good point. If I was new I'd netlist some stuff to understand some of the synergies and then modify from there, or play lists based around generics and start subbing in a named pilot with an upgrade or two eventually. Something like a quad B-Wing list, except with a B-Wing or two replaced with something else.

So perhaps play one of those A+ autowin lists and find out what makes them good. Or play a strong generic list like quad accuracy corrector Advanced and substitute one of them for a Bounty Hunter and Tactician.

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That's a good point. If I was new I'd netlist some stuff to understand some of the synergies and then modify from there,

 

I happened upon a netlist when i first started. I heard of the phantom's ability to cloak and i saw the decimator and i was like

 

OOOH "CLOAK AND DAGGER"

 

turns out it was a thing at that point... or rather had just stopped being a thing as it was JUST post phantom change.

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I usually advise the opposite of netlisting for newcomers.

KISS.

By keeping it simple, you have less triggers and tricks to remember. The more options you have to juggle, the more opportunities you give yourself to make a mistake and the harder it can be to figure out where you went wrong.

Edited by kopmcginty

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I usually advise the opposite of netlisting for newcomers.

KISS.

By keeping it simple, you have less triggers and tricks to remember. The more options you have to juggle, the more opportunities you give yourself to make a mistake and the harder it can be to figure out where you went wrong.

 

 

This even compounds (adds to) the point I was making.

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There is no auto win netlist...and you don't need to know everything to understand if a card or combination is good or not.

 

Yes in a vacuum it's hard to tell if something is over costed, but the OP said he owns basically everything, so at some point it's common sense just reading the cards. Plus the squad builders make it very easy to compare what cards do in order of their costs making things even more obvious.

 

You can build the squad that won the world championship this year and go 0-10 very easily. Nothing about it is easy to fly or do well with. Neither are the Aces with Palp or even BroBots. 3 K-wings with Tacticians is awesome, but that's only after you have mastered how they move and how to get into range 2 and how to know when to use SLAM. Using a squad is just as important as building it.

 

Fat Turrets and TLTs are still the closest you get to "training wheels" where you will do well against most opponents without having to line up shots or worry about too many match-ups just murdering you.

 

BUT even then Fat Han will melt fast if you fly him poorly, and Super Dash will die in one turn if you let him get blocked..

 

Soontir Fel is obviously good, but he will die like a chump if you can't fly well or don't understand why or when to turtle...that is all practice. There is nothing wrong with trying "non-meta" lists, but you should justify what you are flying and yes sometimes it is better to see what people "win with" if you struggle with squad building. Try out "A+ squads" and learn what the community and "competitive" players are using and why. Then squad build backwards to your hearts content.

 

And it's worth repeating again that truly playing casually should mean you don't really count your wins and losses. If being .500 means something to you, then you NEED to actually think about the meta and care about what squad you are putting down, and not just play Kyle Katarn because he was your favorite character ever! (Not that you are doing that, but example etc)

 

I would never advise against using a proven list if you are new, but make sure to understand why a list is good. 4 Bs for example is obvious, where as Heaver's Championship list takes much more thought process and can be flown wrong. maybe start with a list that has less upgrades and once you've mastered flying concepts then practice with more effects and more costly ships, BUT the OP said his flying is good already so in that case, I think it's time to roll out something more saucy.

 

On a side note it also helps to get crushed by great players using their great squads so you can learn what works and why first hand. There's nothing like getting smoked by what feels like an untouchable Soontir or Whisper, feeling helpless against a Fat Han you can't ever hope to damage, or getting cut to shreds in one turn by a TIE Swarm.

 

No they aren't unfair, but they are mathematically efficient synergistic squads flown expertly and perfected by someone who has flown very little else and has played against almost everything out there.

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I've been playing just over a year ... I keep track of my games, mainly just who flew what, and who destroyed who in what order ..

Not quite to 200 games, and I have about a 50% win rate ..

I've flown a couple lists I've found here, or taken a list from here and tweaked it to what I like ..

I've also had a few fun builds that I've made, usually just picking a ship and pilot I might like and add to it ..

When I find a squad I like, I will play it for a few games, tweaking it along the way .. that's one of the best pieces of advice I've seen here .. fly the same squad for abt 5-10 games .. you will get better, just keep having fun ...

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There are autowin netlists. Fly Super Dash with PtL, Engine Upgrade, Outrider, HLC, and Kyle Katarn crew. If your opponent is flying less that 7 PS an he doesn't have 8 ships, you autowin.

I've been playing just over a year ... I keep track of my games, mainly just who flew what, and who destroyed who in what order ..

Not quite to 200 games, and I have about a 50% win rate ..

I've flown a couple lists I've found here, or taken a list from here and tweaked it to what I like ..

I've also had a few fun builds that I've made, usually just picking a ship and pilot I might like and add to it ..

When I find a squad I like, I will play it for a few games, tweaking it along the way .. that's one of the best pieces of advice I've seen here .. fly the same squad for abt 5-10 games .. you will get better, just keep having fun ...

Yeah, definitely. Pick a decent list you like to fly and stick with it.

Might I suggest 2 TLT Y-Wings, and 2 FCS B-Wings? 2 TLT Scum Y-Wings and two PS 5 Kirahxz's each with Glitterstim and Crackshot?

Edited by ParaGoomba Slayer

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There are autowin netlists. Fly Super Dash with PtL, Engine Upgrade, Outrider, HLC, and Kyle Katarn crew. If your opponent is flying less that 7 PS an he doesn't have 8 ships, you autowin.

 

So wrong. Any list that has a Stresshog can do it. Sure he still has one focus per turn, but no repositioning at all. TIE swarm too, although the player needs to be a blocking god. BBBBZ also can do it by playing well and virtue of sheer damage. Your hate for Super Dash is not justified. When I face the usual Corran/Dash the thing that annoys me is Corran. He is frustrating to play against, Dash is fine. I know you will disagree, but thats subjectivity for you

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I played a list sort of similar to the OPs Stress theme list and it worked wonders.  However, it was built quite differently.

 

Jan Ors + Rec Spec + Ion Turret

 

Dutch Vander + Ion Turret + R3-A2

 

Eaden Vrill + Ion Cannon + IA

 

Comes out to less than 100.  Someone questioned the OP in putting the IC on Vrill.  Well, in this list it makes sense because not only are we trying to put stress on high value targets, but we are also trying to control movement through Ionization.  Dutch seems like a really bad stresshog choice, but in truth he actually works quite well.  Dutch gives out a free TL to Vrill who can hopefully use his PWT on a stressed ship, but if that opportunity doesn't present itself I'm not left hanging because I can still rely on my Ions to control the game.  Jan can give anyone an extra dice, so she doesn't neccesarily have to wait for Vrill to get a shot at a stressed shp, she can boost whichever attack needs it, be it Vrill for a 5 dice r1 beatdown, or you just need to make sure that someone gets Ion'd.  

 

I present this as an example of not building yourself into a corner tactically.  The main goal is to throw 5 dice at people with TL and a Focus, but when that option isn't available I feel like I'm bringing enough to the table to do other things. In this case Ionize people!  As far as tinkering with lists, well...  I'd like to put Swarm Tactics on Jan so that Dutch isn't as susceptible to being outshot and add APL to Vrill.  Other options are dropping Dutch for the standard Hog build and using the points to beef up Jan with perhaps a shield or hull upgrade.

Edited by Darkcloak

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1st you need to decide what level of games you want to win. Do you want to just win friendly games, store tournaments, gencon, world's? Once that goal is set start figuring out what you have to do to and fly to win it.

Some things to think about, are you still hitting rocks? In games against high level players you never see them land on the rocks and if does happen it usually means that ship is dead and probably the game is going to the other player.

Are you running top tier stuff? Whether people want to admit it not every ship and upgrade is viable. Not saying you can't win with low tier cards but you're gonna have a harder time and it won't be as consistent. It doesn't take a long time to learn what the better cards and pilots are. They show up in a ton of builds.

Are you building around a gimmick? Gimmicks don't win tournaments. You're list needs to just be built around winning. Having the fun synergistic combos and chains is a ton of fun but when a link is broken or you never get the opportunity to maximize it you hurt your chances of winning. Your list needs be able to do a combo of take hits, dodge hits, regen if ya can, and deal 3+ dice attacks late game.

Last thing, If you want to get really good at the game then play and play and play. Play actual games on an actual mat. I'm not a fan of vassal myself but if that's the only way you can get games in then go for it. Find a viable squad and then run with it. Playing is way more important than theory crafting. Don't post your lists to the forums. The best players in this game don't do that. You will never see a topic by Heaver or Berling asking for people's advice on the forum. All that will do is create doubt in your list. Call me mean but that vast amount of people on the forum aren't very good at this game and don't win tournaments bigger than store championships. Unfortunately those people are the ones willing to give out the most advice. Take all advice given here with a grain of salt including mine. There are only 3 people on this forum who's advice I'd ever listen to and I know 2 of them personally.

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There are autowin netlists. Fly Super Dash with PtL, Engine Upgrade, Outrider, HLC, and Kyle Katarn crew. If your opponent is flying less that 7 PS an he doesn't have 8 ships, you autowin.

 

This is correct of course. Every Regionals and Worlds since that ship and those cards were released has been won by that exact autowin build. Wait...

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Honestly i read some of the walls of text here and i will avoid that for my post.

You say in your first post that you are better at maneuvering, so probably your list building is the problem.

I will just advise you to netlist a few times in order to discover your playstyle. Just look at lists doing fine in the meta like:

Palpmobile as an example of an arc dodging ace list.

4Y TLT as an example of a Turret spam list.

Howlrunner Tie Swarm as an example of a Swarm list.

Fat Han with escort as example of an arc dodging Large Turret.

Then decide what you like and start modifying details in your style of list after each game. That's how you can learn what works for said list type and what doesn't. And how eventually you will find a list that works best for you.

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