Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
DarthDane

Heavers 2015 World List - How would you counter?

Recommended Posts

I don't think Paul's list is as good as some seem to think. There is certainly no easy mode I win button with it.

It is a solid all round list. You want to kill Poe before endgame but that potentially leaves the Stressbot in play crippling your ships action economy. It can't be hard countered as it isn't overly dependent on any one thing or combination.

What makes it a world beater though is that it was flown by a master of the game who can make the humble Bandit into a powerhouse.

I think lots of lists can beat the Worlds list but you have to have a good list yourself and then outfly your opponent.

Edited by kopmcginty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

it's not the list you have to beat,

It is also the list you have to beat, its raw efficiency speaks for itself.

Here's a tip, tally up the combined hull, shields (factoring in regen), expected damage for the list, then try to build the same using either Scum or Empire.

 

It can almost be done, but not quite, (yet?).

More than half that hull/shield combo is behind AGI 1 because of the Y-wings.

 

Which takes away variance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

List-wise, it loses to PalpAces something like 6-1 or worse. One of the guys from Heaver's gaming circle commented on a Reddit thread about the Sensor Jammer PalpAces list flown by Jeremy: https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/3s8zsi/sensor_jammer_on_palpmobile/cwwepzd

 

I know it doesn't help OP, but I thought it'd be useful for the general conversation.

 

I'm getting the feeling the group was feeling PalpAces was the superior list, but that it randomly blows up too easily, and Paul went with the HP/consistency list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trick is, the list is just straight-up solid. But it's not a list that does much unless you play very well - heck, it's got three of its four ships using actual firing arcs!

 

It wins because Everyone Knows you need to kill the stressbot first. But you can't afford to leave Poe to last, either, unless you've got HLC-level firepower on hand.

 

So it's a target priority puzzle: You've got a ship you need to kill first, and a ship you need to kill before you start taking heavy losses. Oh, and don't mess around, because there's two other straight-up-firepower ships out there causing havok too...

 

A solid list. Not one I'd have flown in a million years (It feels a little too bit 'bespoke' for my tastes), but one that's sure as heck able to do the job it's given.

Edited by Reiver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Old school obsidian swarm. Ignore stress bot and rip up Poe. The TLT next and then the rest.

Ties have a place in the game and against lists like this they shine, though people have moved away from them they are still a ton of fun and can do the job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem is if you counter this list you might not have the consistency built in to your own list to make it through everyone else.

Has anyone flown Pheaver's list against itself?

We did.

Dicefest.

There's little to none epic maneuvering, if you catch your foe ins tress-arc, his poe is toast.

 

Out of 3 games 2 times both poes got into such situation and then downed faster than lightspeed.

Then the TLT dicefest ensures

 

Last game I managed to surprise the foe by making a full throttle forward, boosting out of arc and blocking foe's Poe. 1 damage from TLT, nothing more.

While his Stress-hog suffered 6 damage from my TLTs, Z and BTL-fire.

Next turn Poe CLAWed the turn, (AMAZINGLY powerful turn, it's performed at speed lower than 2 +the side displacement.

Poe DERPed the stresshog to dust, my Z got shot down, taking a double damage crit to the face, enemy poe got 2 stresses. Stresshog lost all shields. No damage to enemy poe though, his uber-ability works like a charm.

 

Next couple of turns we routinely demolished Poe and the enemy gave up.

Edited by Warpman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I would go with:

 

Palob - Predator, Rec Spec, TLT

Guri - Predator, Autothrusters, Sensor Jammer, Title

2 x Black Sun Head hunters.

 

Palob steals Poe's focus token to stop both his ability and his R2 unit.

 

Everything shoots before the TLT and Bandit and is facing the full effect of Predator from both Guri and Palob.

 

Guri will only die to Poe, maybe, as three red dice with no modifications beyond Sensor Jammer and three agility is going to be difficult to punch through.

 

Nothing in this list cares about stress.

 

Unfortunately, whilst this works well against this list, it suffers against others, namely Imperial ACE lists so you may not of gotten to the final anyway.

 

Plus, whilst you can counter the list, you cannot take into consideration how good of a player Paul is anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the better players at our FLGS took it out. I wiped it off the map, because it's a list that Paul built to suit his play style - and his near god-like ability to seemingly read his opponents minds.

 

I used two Storm Squadon TIE/Ad w/Proton Rockets, Acc Corrector, and TIE/Mk II engines, along with Whisper w/VI, Sensor Jammer, Flight Instructor & ACD. I pounced on the Stresshog, and took it out in one turn with the Prockets, and sent Whisper after Poe. The TIE/Ad didn't care too much about the stress as they were generally able to shed it with the eight possible greens each turn.

 

I also wouldn't mind taking a Torkil HWK list to nerf Poe down to something that everyone can pounce on. I haven't finished tweaking my go-to Scum list to do that yet though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I tend to have a different opinion.

Anyone can beat Paul's list with another list that you know as well as Paul knew his and prepared accordingly. Paul won with a good list, but with his experience, prep, and talent, he could have won with 6 naked Scyks and a Spice Runner. Someone who knows the game well enough and plenty of prep time could be Paul with any list of their own. The fact is that the list is only a third of it. This may have not been the case as much six months ago, but FFG seems to have substantially leveled the playing field. We seem to get all wrapped up in this upgrade or that one, but if you cannot fly well, don't employ reasonable strategies, or your dice just suck, you will loose no matter what.

I find his list interesting, yes. I would not have brought it, and would have done poorly with it as I generally do not fly those ships. I have 2-3 lists I consistently fly in tournaments because I know them well and have strategies and counters for just about whatever gets put on the table across from me. Only one has anything from Wave 7 because I have been working with them for a long time. My best bet for beating Paul's list, or any other, is one of those.

I would suggest that anyone else's best counter list would be the same; the list they know the best, whatever it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I never expected this thread to be so active. Apologies that I have not been responding to any of your replies but I just worked back to back 16 hour shifts. I've read through everything here and some very good points have been made.

 

First response, let me correct my very poorly worded title and question. I should not have been asking for a "counter" as I realize the list doesn't have one. I should have been asking more what you have had success with against it.

 

This particular league design is actually using a 60 minute timed game due primarily to limited table space at the local store, but also to get people used to that style of play for the upcoming tournaments to be held there. For the league I am NOT locked into any particular list. I can literally switch lists every match if I chose to. I've had 5 games so far, winning 4 of them with the same list each time putting me in second place... behind the list in question. The list that I actually did not get to play as planned last Sunday. I've been using:

 

- IG88 B/C with Title, Autothrusters, Crackshot, HLC, FCS, Glitter

 

I started flying it the week before league started so I can't complain about the success I've had with it. Prior to that I was a Soontir/Chiraneau guy which happens to be where my one loss came in due to a very horribly flown match on myself that saw no less than 6 astroid clips on my part, and very good flying on my opponents part. The thing is, the two lists I'm not most comfortable with I don't know if they can get the job done. Perhaps they can but with a zero margin of error?

 

I've been considering some lists I'd normally never play with Nera, miranda, maybe a procket toting A or 2 and hammering Poe off the table with a solid ordinance Alpha strike but I think it might be a bad idea to do just to get a leg up on this list for league play since I'm pretty positive come the tournament I might be able to counter him and not due well against the rest.

 

So...after all that meaningless rambling, thank you all again for the numerous responses. I'll leave it with the final question of: Have you beaten the list with Brobots or a Deci/Ace list (or anything similar)? Or, what have you beaten it with. (some people have already answered this one - thank you!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah it's solid but not unbeatable. Currently there's a lot of lists that are solid and all rounders. Palp 2 aces is the other IMO. Though. You have to arc dodge that stress hog. Or you die.

This seems really true. I think palp plus aces actually should beat that list consistently but I think it needs to be juke engine Vader and full turtle soontir with a naked shuttle. The list that faced Paul in top 16 got out of position due to lw and no engine and lost Vader way too fast to have a chance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well as much as I would like to give Palp-Aces a shot... I do not have a raider. So no Palp and no Tie ad title. Given that how do you.think the following would fair?

-Soontir/Turr with PTL/AT/Title/SD

-Yorr with EU/Vader/Intel agent

Or I could swap the SD's for targetting comps and drop the intel agent in exchange for an ion cannon or rebel captive...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

List-wise, it loses to PalpAces something like 6-1 or worse. One of the guys from Heaver's gaming circle commented on a Reddit thread about the Sensor Jammer PalpAces list flown by Jeremy: https://www.reddit.com/r/XWingTMG/comments/3s8zsi/sensor_jammer_on_palpmobile/cwwepzd

 

I know it doesn't help OP, but I thought it'd be useful for the general conversation.

 

I'm getting the feeling the group was feeling PalpAces was the superior list, but that it randomly blows up too easily, and Paul went with the HP/consistency list.

 

 

I can't see how the Heaver list is bad against the Palp Aces. You cut off half the board and funnel Soontir into you. The squad is all board control and if Soontir gets stressed or blocked it's dead. And Vader is nothing compared to soontir. Left to himself it becomes quite a rout quickly.

 

I am curious to actually play this or see this match-up now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well as much as I would like to give Palp-Aces a shot... I do not have a raider. So no Palp and no Tie ad title. Given that how do you.think the following would fair?

-Soontir/Turr with PTL/AT/Title/SD

-Yorr with EU/Vader/Intel agent

Or I could swap the SD's for targetting comps and drop the intel agent in exchange for an ion cannon or rebel captive...?

 

Why wouldn't you try Carnor Jax who will stop Poe from getting his precious Focus?

 

Yorr is cute, but may not be in range of the Interceptors to be able to grab their stress. You really have to slow roll the shuttle. OGP with HLC baby! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A swarm should be able to deal with the list with relative ease. Same for BBBBZ.

 

When facing a lot of concentrated fire, Poe goes down easily. When there is no elite pilot to aim for, but a lot of annoying little ship everywhere, the Stresshog utility drop drastically... and with 1 agility and 8 health, can be dealt with pretty easily.

 

The list Heaver flew is very good in a low ship meta and to neutralize the ace, but it doesn't have a lot of firepower. Poe with VI is still just a ship that will attack with 3 dice+Focus (maybe even turning just one focus if he wants to keep it for defense. The Stresshog is annoying, but once the first pass is done, it will take 2 turns before coming back. While a TLT Y-Wing is annoying, it can still only deal 2 damage at most per turn. Same for the 2 dice Z.

 

It's a good team, but far from being unbeatable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...