B-Wing madness

[Truthiness 5,698]

The latest hotness for Rebels appears to be rogue squadrons, A-Wings, and Ackbar. Well I'm here to tell you that's not the only way. I've played this in about five games so far, with the only variation being Keyan in place of one of the B-Wings. Barring one major outlier against Green Knight where I rolled horribly and rammed into my own ships too many times to count, it has performed very well against the current trends. Here's the current list:

MC80 Command Cruiser

-Garm

-Independence

-ECMs

-Adar Tallon

-Boosted Comms

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate

-Yavaris

Nebulon-B Support Frigate

-Salvation

-Wedge

-Dutch

-Jan

-4x B-Wings

Most Wanted

Contested Outpost

Superior Positions

390/400

Independence, Boosted Comms, B-Wings, Jan, Adar Tallon, and Yavaris all together cannot be undersold. Each builds on the other to create a painful ball of death. I've had them take down full health ISDs in a single turn. Independence's role in that is critical. The 8 points to get the B-Wings in position a turn early is worth it. And that is coming from someone who initially dismissed the title out of hand. It has won me over completely.

A more surprising discovery has been Dutch. Wedge/Dutch is a tried and true awesome combo. It's so good that you really have no business including one without the other. But I've found an added bonus to Dutch: he's a hard counter to balls of rogue squadrons. With Adar and Yavaris, he can activate three squadrons a turn. Now normally the fact that you have to space that across two activations may limit your ability to neutralize enemy squadrons. Against rogues, however, there is little risk of a squadron activation between your own activations. Most people are not going to toss a squadron command to rogue squadrons. After all, you've paid points to not need the squadron command. He can get those shots in at his leisure.

This list will be featuring in the upcoming Vassal tournament. The one thing I've yet to see is the Ackbar whaling congoline (by which I mean 4x AFIIs), so I'm looking forward to that match up. It should be a fun challenge.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Truthiness

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I Think Wedge and Dutch couple be replaced for 3 A-Wings or some YT-1300's but that is me. 

[Green Knight 9,746]

I Think Wedge and Dutch couple be replaced for 3 A-Wings or some YT-1300's but that is me.

No. After having my rogues repeatedly activated by multi-shooting Dutch and then hammered by wedge...solid combo there.

[Green Knight 9,746]

The only thing this list needs is: a more maneuverable Yavaris and slightly better dice :-D

I miss Keyan, that double black with re-election roll...But I suppose initiative is more important.

[Truthiness 5,698]

That's pretty much where I ended up. Love Keyan, but love the 10 point bid more so far.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

That's pretty much where I ended up. Love Keyan, but love the 10 point bid more so far.

For some reason all my bids end at about 10 points. . . Not sure why though

[Truthiness 5,698]

 

That's pretty much where I ended up. Love Keyan, but love the 10 point bid more so far.

For some reason all my bids end at about 10 points. . . Not sure why though

 

 

For me it's because I'm looking at a 6-7 point upgrade that I could probably live without.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

That's pretty much where I ended up. Love Keyan, but love the 10 point bid more so far.

For some reason all my bids end at about 10 points. . . Not sure why though

 

For me it's because I'm looking at a 6-7 point upgrade that I could probably live without.

That seems about right

[Maturin 1,583]

I'd be really, really tempted to replace Salvation with a MC30 Torpedo frigate, just to keep things away from Yavaris.  It'd cut your bid by 5 points, but I'm just not sure about how you'd fly Salvation in this list.  Though clearly you do.  

[Truthiness 5,698]

I usually set Salvation out wide. It forces the opponent to either a) get sniped as he tries to engage the main effort or b) send something to deal with Salvation. The result has been so far that Salvation dies horribly to something bigger. The good news is that the bigger something is usually out of the fight long enough for Yavaris and Independence to destroy the remainder.

I'll definitely experiment with a torpedo Frigate at some point. It would definitely be a big help. For now, I just I don't have one. I think if I did, I would just toss out any attempt at an initiative bid and give the mc30 some Ordnance experts as well.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Truthiness

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

I can't see a naked Salvation being it worth it over either an Escort Frigate (shreds those super-buffed Tie Interceptors) or a TLRC Support

[Truthiness 5,698]

I already have Yavaris for any anti-squadron shenanigans, which most definitely have helped shred TIEs. A TLRC and Salvation are entirely down to preference. The TLRC is more reliable, Salvation has a bigger ceiling. I've had more than a few 6+ damage rolls with Salvation.

[HERO 842]

I was actually going to hit you up about this idea I had for my Home One list.

 

I'l make a bigger post after this, but I'm thinking about trying X-Wing heavy, without Independence, and running:

Wedge, Luke, Dutch, Jan, 3x X-Wings, 2 ships; beefed up Home One and MKII with Ackbar

[Green Knight 9,746]

I usually set Salvation out wide. It forces the opponent to either a) get sniped as he tries to engage the main effort or b) send something to deal with Salvation. The result has been so far that Salvation dies horribly to something bigger. The good news is that the bigger something is usually out of the fight long enough for Yavaris and Independence to destroy the remainder.

I'll definitely experiment with a torpedo Frigate at some point. It would definitely be a big help. For now, I just I don't have one. I think if I did, I would just toss out any attempt at an initiative bid and give the mc30 some Ordnance experts as well.

 

Avoid setting up Salvation so that Demo can kill her, then sweep directly in at the rest of your fleet.

[Green Knight 9,746]

I already have Yavaris for any anti-squadron shenanigans, which most definitely have helped shred TIEs. A TLRC and Salvation are entirely down to preference. The TLRC is more reliable, Salvation has a bigger ceiling. I've had more than a few 6+ damage rolls with Salvation.

 

You did 8 when you played me. It was offensive

[Truthiness 5,698]

Tried the torpedo frigate. Not a fan, but mostly because of the initiative bid. I badly need initiative with this fighter group.

[audere1882 52]

Those squadrons are scary and a death ball if you get sucked into them.

[Lukiki 13]

Quick question.  If you need more points for the bid and another upgrade, maybe you can drop Garm and use Dodonna?  Would give you 5 points back plus Dodonna would affect the crits from the Bwings.

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

problem with dropping Garm is that Garm's kinda awesome

[Lukiki 13]

Is he more awesome then Dodonna and say a TRC on the Salvation or Dodonna and a Keyan upgrade though?

[ficklegreendice 34,362]

easily

Garm gives a measure of flexibility that is simply invaluable on the right ships, and Neb-Bs are definitely that ship. The nav token saves lives with that jump from speed 2 to 3

 

but if you were to get Big-D, the first thing you'd put on Salvation is Raymus. TLRC is redundant, as it double hits by itself, and Raymus also does the Garm thing of really kicking the Neb's maneuverability up several notches

[Lukiki 13]

I'm not following why TLRC is redundant on the Salvation.  The whole point of the TLRC on it is to change one of those red dice into a crit, especially when when one of your red dice is a miss.  I also usually go for the nav command on the first turn when the ships are moving into range and I don't have to worry about shooting or being shot that turn.  

[Truthiness 5,698]

Garm as the commander is a result of play testing. Independence wants to start spamming squadron commands from turn one, meaning I can't horde up command tokens on the first turn or two. Garm covers that very nicely. I actually usually ended up with a lower bid with Dodonna anyway because I then wanted Raymus (I preferred him on Yavaris).

 

I don't consider TLRC redundant. Those blanks show up with annoying regularity. I would just prefer to use slaved turrets because Salvation already has such a high chance at a double damage. An extra dice give me an absurdly high damage ceiling. I just can't fit TLRC or Slaved Turrets along with the initiative bid I like. If I had the points, I would have Slaved Turrets on Salvation and TLRC on Yavaris.

[Madaghmire 7,277]

Truthiness, can you shed some light on your thought process regarding most wanted over advanced gunnery as assault objective? (Not that it much matters with this bid) I'm looking at it and I'm thinking tossing that on Independence is a bigger swing than Most Wanted, but given how much I like your list building I'm also thinking you are seeing something I'm not.

[Truthiness 5,698]

Three words: Home One Ackbar. I do not want to give a free gunnery team to that. Most Wanted also helps my ships compensate a bit on firepower. I throw the objective on the enemy's biggest baddest ship and slap Salvation as mine. I honestly expect Salvation to die pretty much every game, so that's not really a loss there. Meanwhile, I get a considerable amount of extra firepower against the enemy big bad. If both ships die, which tends to happen when Most Wanted is involved, the points swing is usually huge. It can easily turn a 5-5 into a 7-3 or 8-2.

 

In other news, I'm considering switching out Wedge and Dutch for 3 A-Wings. JJ schooled me pretty handedly a couple times yesterday. I played poorly in retrospect, but it still made me realize that I may have been going about the squadron fight a bit wrong overall. Dutch is incredible for shutting down opposing squadrons, but when I use his double tap, that's a double tap that a B-Wing is not getting. I'm thinking my focus might need to be on delaying and disrupting enemy squadrons rather than trying to outright win. Given, Wedge and Dutch might still be able to do that. However, you only have to get through Wedge's 5 hit points before you can break contact since Dutch is heavy. Without Yavaris providing double taps, they might not be up to the task of disrupt and delay. 12 hit points of A-Wings with Jan tokens might be able to play the disruption game a little better and also cause a good amount of damage with counter. I would need to be more careful with Jan, but I think it might be a better course of action.