Why not? 5 kihraxz cartel marauders?

[ctsparky 33]

Firepower (100/100)

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Kihraxz Fighter: Cartel Marauder (20)

Kihraxz Fighter: Cartel Marauder (20)

Kihraxz Fighter: Cartel Marauder (20)

Kihraxz Fighter: Cartel Marauder (20)

Kihraxz Fighter: Cartel Marauder (20)

So here are my thoughts, why not just run 5 cartel marauders?

In the TLT meta, you might lose a ship at a turn but if you get your dice on a y wing then it will be toast as well.

Yes you lose the ps war, but do you care?

It is 15 dice of attack and 25 points of defense.

[banjobenito 1,393]

Someone won a local tourney with 3 cartels and two scyks with manglers, I think. But yes, I agree it looks tempting!

 

That's a lot of Kricklez if you find you don't much like the list, however ... might be worth proxying?

 

Also, I've gotta ask the question ... What you gonna do about Soontir? Your blocking game better be pretty tight!

Edited November 28, 2015 by banjobenito

[ctsparky 33]

I think that soontir may eventually die. Those green dice have to fail at some point.

 

I mean I know he is hard to kill, but in a palp plus aces list, you can generally leave Soontir for later.  If I have even 2 marauders I should be able to get an arc or block with one to get an arc on the other.

Edited November 28, 2015 by ctsparky

[kopmcginty 609]

Soontir vs 2 generics endgame?

I'd bet on Mr Fel there. Two arcs is totally avoidable with him, you can hope to get 1 arc per turn on him for which he will likely have a stack of tokens.

Naked 5K is interesting but I think 4K with upgrades is better at dealing with aces.

[ctsparky 33]

I'll have to play it and see.

Edited November 28, 2015 by ctsparky

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

I think that soontir may eventually die. Those green dice have to fail at some point.

 

I mean I know he is hard to kill, but in a palp plus aces list, you can generally leave Soontir for later.  If I have even 2 marauders I should be able to get an arc or block with one to get an arc on the other.

I suggest rethinking that strategy.  Soontir is possibly the best endgame ship.  Leaving him for endgame is basically handing your opponent victory.  Kill him, and what does your opponent have left?  Much easier prospects for victory once he's off the table.  Always kill Soontir first if you can.  Don't make it obvious though----chasing soontir around the map is a recipe for disaster.  You have to catch him when he's coming toward you and potentially vulnerable to blocking.  Killing him actionless is always the best way to go if you can engineer it.

[laugh it up fuzzball 10]

One of the problems with using marauders as blockers (or headhunters for that matter) is the lack of post maneuver positioning i.e. barrel roll or boost. It's by no means impossible to block with those ships, but the ability to adjust your postition after your maneuver is what makes ties and a-wings such great blockers. 

[Zazaa 563]

I played a tournament with that squad and did came fifth. Few points in mov more an I would of been on top four! It is solis list! Try also four acea with some EPT's!

Those 1 tight turns, 4 and 5 K-turns are quite good for them to work as a swarm and three attacks is very solid!

Edited November 29, 2015 by Zazaa

[blade_mercurial 2,091]

One of the problems with using marauders as blockers (or headhunters for that matter) is the lack of post maneuver positioning i.e. barrel roll or boost. It's by no means impossible to block with those ships, but the ability to adjust your postition after your maneuver is what makes ties and a-wings such great blockers.

Well of course!

But you have to work with what you've got. With 5 khiraxz, blocking soontir is not impossible. With only 2 or maybe 3 left? Its nearly impossible by that point and probably no longer winnable...

Stressed interceptors have 7 moves. If you are approaching with 5 ships, you only need 2 to shoot through defenses and get a kill (at range 1 if he's actionless). So 3 can block. Place the main block of our ships into his 2-4 straight path so he can't overshoot you. Your outside ships block the 2 turn/bank spots. You still have 2 shooting R1 no matter which green move he picked. Now its not going to be so simple of course, especially if your opponent is savvy and positions in a way to leave himself an escape path. But in that case, as long asyou get some guns on target, you might still sneak a damage through, breaking the stealth device. Then he will be kiting and you can ignore him for a turn or two (Khiraxz has a nice dial for changing up directions easily).

[Biophysical 15,515]

I think Soontir's damage shouldn't be overstated either. He just won't do so much that he has to be taken out right away. You have time to set up Target Locks, blocks, to kill an important supporting piece (palp-shuttle), whatever. 5k isn't a crazy tough list, but it can take some hits, lose a ship, and still have more firepower than most other lists.

[kopmcginty 609]

So what are people's thoughts on an all K list? I've only got one so far but do intend to get more. Not sure whether to stop at 4 or get the fifth.

Reason being, I quite like the look of;

Black Sun Ace

Crackshot

Inertial Dampners

25pts

X4

100pts.

PS5 and 3 attack should be good for PS kills on the usual low PS suspects. Y and B are both kill able in one round of shooting but a little dice dependent. Dampners give you an extra tool to get arc on aces with crack shot then helping push vital damage through when you do.

Not sure either 4 or 5 K's have enough about them to be a really top list but I think either can be good but that 4x is a bit stronger in general terms?

[killerbeardhawk 456]

I've ran 4 cartel and the 20 pointo syck who gives defensive rerolls. Negated an average 4-6 damage over each game. I took an evade token each time with it, and rarely got shot at, allowing rerolls the whole game. You lose 1 attack dice but I think the defense is what makes it work.

[Red Castle 3,869]

I tried a 5 Kihraxz list in a friendly tournament and it went well, finished second with it. But there is some limitations to the list, which means that I would not bring it to a bigger tournament.

 

First of all, there is no room for error. Being PS2 and without any way to reposition, you must be good at guessing where your opponent will go. You also need to be good to set traps for the arc-dodgers.

 

It's also highly vulnerable to crits. It has 25 hit total, but only 5 of them is shields. If your opponent roll well (in a tournament, there will always be that game where the dice failed you or your opponent dice are hot), your force can get crippled pretty fast.

 

Also, being only PS2, there might be times where you'll get one blown up before it even had a chance to fire.

 

I think that changing one of the Kihraxz for Serissu like Killerbeardhawk suggested is the way to go.... or 3 Kihraxz to escort one elite ship.

[Darth Landy 296]

5 Cartels have big problems with Soontir.  Sure, the scum list has the advantage of strength in numbers (to start with anyway), but don't forget that Fel has some support too.  And with his arc dodging capabilities those numbers are going to start to dwindle.  The more they drop and the longer the baron goes untouched just tips the scales more in his favor.

Also as mentioned, the cartels are extremely vulnerable to crits.  It's not just a matter of unlucky dice rolls these days, either.  We are getting more pilots and upgrades that can deliver crits pretty much at will (Advanced Targeting Computer, Omega Ace, etc.) which will definitely ruin their day.

[Magnus Grendel 10,571]

Agreed. It should work, provided you can use your edge in numbers and firepower to take out the end-game ship early.

 

At the same time, dropping to 4 does give you some impressive payback - Black Sun Aces are PS5 - one of the best generics in the game - and you can throw on some cheap upgrades to give you the edge early in a game. Crack Shot and Inertial Dampeners, or else Glitterstim spring to mind.

[ctsparky 33]

Thanks for the constructive feedback guys.

I'll see about the 4 back sun plus support list.