Instigator and squadrons engaged?

[Drasnighta 26,832]

I'm at the point where, when it comes to all Instigator Related topics, I merely advocate the "Wait for the Clarification FAQ" stance...  Because I just don't have the Energy to deal in Absolutes anymore...

[CDAT 243]

I'm at the point where, when it comes to all Instigator Related topics, I merely advocate the "Wait for the Clarification FAQ" stance...  Because I just don't have the Energy to deal in Absolutes anymore...

 

This is what we kind of did, I thought that it would, they said it would not. As it was not worth a fight and they conceded on the Ackbar does not give two red dice to people who can not shoot let them have it. Have to wait for the FAQ.

[JgzMan 401]

I'm at the point where, when it comes to all Instigator Related topics, I merely advocate the "Wait for the Clarification FAQ" stance...  Because I just don't have the Energy to deal in Absolutes anymore...

 

You poor thing, you must be as tired as Sith.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Honestly, it was mostly the abusive and semi-abusive PM's I was getting from people who disagreed that took most of the joy out of things for me...


Slow to build it back up.  But I'm trying to be more active in Rules Questions again.

[mikemcmann 359]

You seriously had people pm you and be abusive? Wtf is wrong with humanity? That's just ridiculous and inexcusable.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

I had a lot of valid points that Dras needed to hear, and I figured it would be nicer to PM him my opinions of him and his theories because I didn't want to shame him in public and now I'm the bad guy?!

(I haven't PMed Dras about the Raider, I'm just feeling sassy. Carry on.)

[Green Knight 9,746]

 

"Enemy squadrons at distance 1 are treated as if they are engaged by 2 additional squadrons, even if they are not currently engaged."

 

Swarm: (While attacking a squadron engaged with another squadron, you may reroll 1 die.)

 

 

 

I think I would have to give them the reroll.

That's....

Huh...

I can't disagree.

You treat the squadron *as if it were engaged by 2 additional squadrons*... and if it were engaged by another squadron, swarm would activate so...

The Instigator's ability doesn't specify only working in cases of grit, so I don't see why it wouldn't interact with Swarm. Even thematically, it makes some sense that your TIE fighter would benefit from the nearby corvette blasting away at the same squadron.

 

 

Hmmm...it does seem legit when put that way.

[Wildhorn 453]

Official answer:
 

Hello, Jonathan,

 

Thank you for your patience. In response to your question:

 

Rules Question:

Conserning the rule for Engagement of squadrons: "When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron if possible rather than an enemy ship." and the new Instigator title: "Enemy squadrons at distance 1 are treated as if they are engaged by 2 additional squadrons, even if they are not currently engaged." Does this mean that if a squadron is engaged, but there is no squadron to attack, it can attack a ship (the Instigator Raider in this case)? Or the "if possible" means that if they can, they must attack a squadron, but if they can't (for whatever reason), too bad, they are still not allowed to attack a ship? Thanks.

 

Squadrons can attack ships despite the presence of the Instigator. Since it isn’t possible for those squadrons to attack the two illusory squadrons that are engaging them, they can attack the Instigator or another ship.

 

Thanks for playing!

James Kniffen

Game Designer

Fantasy Flight Games

 

 

[Tvayumat 3,637]

Well that's one question to cross off the growing list.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

That was a softball. Probably the second easiest question of the Wave (does Rieekan work on himself.)

But it's good to have the answer anyway.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Next Wave I am going to take bets.

[BorinBCN 8]

Another imperial tittle that will take dust.

[Green Knight 9,746]

 

Official answer:

 

Hello, Jonathan,

 

Thank you for your patience. In response to your question:

 

Rules Question:

Conserning the rule for Engagement of squadrons: "When a squadron attacks, it must attack an engaged squadron if possible rather than an enemy ship." and the new Instigator title: "Enemy squadrons at distance 1 are treated as if they are engaged by 2 additional squadrons, even if they are not currently engaged." Does this mean that if a squadron is engaged, but there is no squadron to attack, it can attack a ship (the Instigator Raider in this case)? Or the "if possible" means that if they can, they must attack a squadron, but if they can't (for whatever reason), too bad, they are still not allowed to attack a ship? Thanks.

 

Squadrons can attack ships despite the presence of the Instigator. Since it isn’t possible for those squadrons to attack the two illusory squadrons that are engaging them, they can attack the Instigator or another ship.

 

Thanks for playing!

James Kniffen

Game Designer

Fantasy Flight Games

 

 

 

 

I'm going to go: "I told you so"

[Valca 397]

That was a softball. Probably the second easiest question of the Wave (does Rieekan work on himself.)

But it's good to have the answer anyway.

What was the answer to that one?

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Yes, he does.

 

There was a hint that there may be an update re: Tournament Scoring about it, however.

 

Which might resolve what happens if a Rieekan Zombie destroys the opponents final ship before being removed itself, or something like that.

[Snipafist 7,541]

Another imperial tittle that will take dust.

I'm not so sure. It's a hard counter to Grit and Intel (as the two fake squadrons don't ever disappear and cannot be ignored by Intel) and helps a small fighter Escort (2-3 TIE Fighters or Interceptors would get my vote) to proc Swarm without needing to bunch up around one another, making them more vulnerable to flak. It's only 4 points, so it was never going to be an amazing upgrade but in the right metas it has its place.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

That was a softball. Probably the second easiest question of the Wave (does Rieekan work on himself.)

But it's good to have the answer anyway.

What was the answer to that one?

Yes he does.

If you aren't aware of why it was questionable, it's because according to the rules, as soon as a ship is destroyed, all of its upgrades immediately stop working. Technically, reading the rules very strictly, Rieekan is discarded immediately when his ship dies, so he doesn't "save" himself until the end of the round.

Of course it seems pretty goofy that FFG would have intended for that particular action, and they confirmed that he does in fact work on himself.

[JgzMan 401]

 

 

That was a softball. Probably the second easiest question of the Wave (does Rieekan work on himself.)

But it's good to have the answer anyway.

What was the answer to that one?

Yes he does.

If you aren't aware of why it was questionable, it's because according to the rules, as soon as a ship is destroyed, all of its upgrades immediately stop working. Technically, reading the rules very strictly, Rieekan is discarded immediately when his ship dies, so he doesn't "save" himself until the end of the round.

Of course it seems pretty goofy that FFG would have intended for that particular action, and they confirmed that he does in fact work on himself.

 

 

As it happens, IIRC, the reason he does work on himself, is that the player gets to decide which of the two effects (Riekem, or remove) kicks off first.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

That was a softball. Probably the second easiest question of the Wave (does Rieekan work on himself.)

But it's good to have the answer anyway.

What was the answer to that one?

Yes he does.

If you aren't aware of why it was questionable, it's because according to the rules, as soon as a ship is destroyed, all of its upgrades immediately stop working. Technically, reading the rules very strictly, Rieekan is discarded immediately when his ship dies, so he doesn't "save" himself until the end of the round.

Of course it seems pretty goofy that FFG would have intended for that particular action, and they confirmed that he does in fact work on himself.

 

As it happens, IIRC, the reason he does work on himself, is that the player gets to decide which of the two effects (Riekem, or remove) kicks off first.

Hmm, I figured that they just kind of overrode the rules for him in this instance, just like they did for Mon Mothma's ability.

[JgzMan 401]

 

 

 

 

That was a softball. Probably the second easiest question of the Wave (does Rieekan work on himself.)

But it's good to have the answer anyway.

What was the answer to that one?

Yes he does.

If you aren't aware of why it was questionable, it's because according to the rules, as soon as a ship is destroyed, all of its upgrades immediately stop working. Technically, reading the rules very strictly, Rieekan is discarded immediately when his ship dies, so he doesn't "save" himself until the end of the round.

Of course it seems pretty goofy that FFG would have intended for that particular action, and they confirmed that he does in fact work on himself.

 

As it happens, IIRC, the reason he does work on himself, is that the player gets to decide which of the two effects (Riekem, or remove) kicks off first.

Hmm, I figured that they just kind of overrode the rules for him in this instance, just like they did for Mon Mothma's ability.

 

 

One of the things I like about Armada, as opposed to, oh let's say, Attack Wing, is that FFG tries REALLY HARD to not have to do what they did for Mon Mothma. They wrote a nice, tight set of rules, defined terms, and made sure that all cards use words in the same way. "While" always means the same thing.

 

Occasionaly, they strech a bit, like with Rieken, but at least it still mostly fits. It is established that if two effects happen at the same time, the player effected (usualy) decided which takes precidence. So Riekeen still follows the rules.

[CDAT 243]

 

 

 

 

 

That was a softball. Probably the second easiest question of the Wave (does Rieekan work on himself.)

But it's good to have the answer anyway.

What was the answer to that one?

Yes he does.

If you aren't aware of why it was questionable, it's because according to the rules, as soon as a ship is destroyed, all of its upgrades immediately stop working. Technically, reading the rules very strictly, Rieekan is discarded immediately when his ship dies, so he doesn't "save" himself until the end of the round.

Of course it seems pretty goofy that FFG would have intended for that particular action, and they confirmed that he does in fact work on himself.

 

As it happens, IIRC, the reason he does work on himself, is that the player gets to decide which of the two effects (Riekem, or remove) kicks off first.

Hmm, I figured that they just kind of overrode the rules for him in this instance, just like they did for Mon Mothma's ability.

 

 

One of the things I like about Armada, as opposed to, oh let's say, Attack Wing, is that FFG tries REALLY HARD to not have to do what they did for Mon Mothma. They wrote a nice, tight set of rules, defined terms, and made sure that all cards use words in the same way. "While" always means the same thing.

 

Occasionaly, they strech a bit, like with Rieken, but at least it still mostly fits. It is established that if two effects happen at the same time, the player effected (usualy) decided which takes precidence. So Riekeen still follows the rules.

 

What happened with Mon Mothma? I am a Empire player, and none of the local Rebels have ever used Mon Mothma, so not sure what happened.

[Boardy 79]

Not trying to be a downer but isn't this just a temporary fix until the FAQ? After all, Advanced Projectors/X17 (I know it's XI7 but I like to bug die-hards) interaction was 'solved' through the email rule question stuff but then the FAQ totally turned that on it's head.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

Boardy: I'd say it's a quick patch for now, but I doubt the FAQ will be different.

They changed their minds on XI7/AP, and waited until FAQ to actually alter it. So the email in that case want really a stopgap solution so much as a ruling reversal. You are right that it could be different when the FAQ comes out, but I doubt it will be.

[DerErlkoenig 975]

What happened with Mon Mothma? I am a Empire player, and none of the local Rebels have ever used Mon Mothma, so not sure what happened.

Her ability is printed like an additional effect for the Evade defense token (you know how Engine Techs doesn't replace your regular maneuver, it just allows you to do more stuff when you activate a Nav command) well Mothma is the same, so before the FAQ her ability, going strictly by the rules, allowed you to use both her printed ability, and the Evade token's standard ability for every resolution (only medium range was doubled up - but still.)

They ruled that her ability was a replacement ability instead, so when you activate a defense token you either use its standard ability, or her superior ability if within close-medium range.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

With Boosted Comms (the other major replacement ability), they added the "(instead of X)" qualifier to the text. Presumably they'll stick to that standard in the future. It's what I've followed for custom cards (example).

Edited December 17, 2015 by DiabloAzul