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X Wing Nut

The M3-A Scyk can not be fixed!!!!

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it's on boost ships for a reason.

Why boost is not on M3A Interceptor is beyond reasoning.

 

Problem is that +1 agility dice is 3\8 extra dodges per attack.

 

Why not simply pump out Starviper+Scyk Underworld Ace pack.

 

include PS7-8 pilots for them, and making a scum-only title\EPT 

like "Slippery bastard" 

Allowing you to perform Barrel rolls using 1 banks.

It's now not a super-fast ceptor, not a damage-dishing sniper, but a real brawler, sidestepping and re-angling itself in the close confines of a bloody furball of a dogfight?

 

Those who want the extra fun will take the overpriced heavy title and get themselves some extra overcosted Autoblaster for extra knife-fight murder

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I actually considered the banks also, but wasn't sure if it's enough - afterall, still makes it a glass cannon which was your biggest issue.

 

I do agree that both the Syck and the Viper should get love in an aces pack.

 

 

One thing I am not a fan off with the bank-roll is that it's been done, it's Echo's schtick. It's a VERY effective schtick but, it is Echos.

 

This said, Lorrir does similarly so... Eh why not.

 

Should be a scum only thing though. I still think that Sycks should be fixed entirely through titles.

I love the 2 title suggestion above, giving the syck 4 titles to choose from and mix/matching them. Oh heck that sounds fun.

 

Title example. Decreased EM signature. Remove Target lock from actions bar, gain stealth device card free.

Note that it still takes the mod slot, so they can't just pay the 2 points for a targeting computer. Note also that the Syck comes with a stealth device(or two... i forgets).

 

Finally: I use autoblasters, or at least have used them, My main opponent likes TIE Interceptors with stealth devices so, it 's an obvious counter. I still remember teaching him phantoms... he was giddy.

Edited by DariusAPB

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In this case "Bad" is based off what it can do, how much it cost to do it, and what are the other options. Yes people sometimes bash something unfairly in any given game system, but just as often you'll have someone that zealously defends a bemoaned rule or game piece with no explanation as to why it is in fact "not bad".

 

If you think we're unfairly bashing the ship then explain what is actually good about it, because it's not that effective naked, and the cost of properly arming it with a cannon and/or modification bring it up to the price range of ships that are simply better in terms of raw stats and ability.

 

I do agree that boost is perhaps over used, but AT's are just that good, and any ship that is both fragile and middling cost needs some way to mitigate damage.

 

 

I have seen it used effectively and been beaten by lists with Scyks in it with my tournament level lists.  It's not often, though.  I do think it needs something.  I've stated that.  I don't know what it is.  I don't think it's terrible, but I think it needs something.  

 

I do agree that Boost for Autothrusters is overdone.  Give it something else.  Even just a point drop.  I'd love to see more green on the dial.

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I actually considered the banks also, but wasn't sure if it's enough - afterall, still makes it a glass cannon which was your biggest issue.

 

I do agree that both the Syck and the Viper should get love in an aces pack.

 

 

One thing I am not a fan off with the bank-roll is that it's been done, it's Echo's schtick. It's a VERY effective schtick but, it is Echos.

 

This said, Lorrir does similarly so... Eh why not.

 

Should be a scum only thing though. I still think that Sycks should be fixed entirely through titles.

I love the 2 title suggestion above, giving the syck 4 titles to choose from and mix/matching them. Oh heck that sounds fun.

 

Title example. Decreased EM signature. Remove Target lock from actions bar, gain stealth device card free.

Note that it still takes the mod slot, so they can't just pay the 2 points for a targeting computer. Note also that the Syck comes with a stealth device(or two... i forgets).

If a glass cannon costs 14 points it's an overpriced clumsy Tie fighter.

If a glass cannon costs 19 points for a 8 PS and gets to a 20 for a single-point Bank-rolling illicit\mod and somehow gets a bonus to it's survivability\damage output\action economy, that's a solid choice for a brawl-master.

 

When you're close and have the high PS you CAN possibly use those turn+bank shenanigans to get out of harm's way.

 

It's not Echo thing, it's some Interceptor ability as far as I remember, but still a viable choice.

 

Scyk comes with a stealth because both it's unique pilots want to survive but don't get to take the GODSENT AUTOTHRUSTERS.

 

i've already formulated 2 "other"scyk titles that work nicely in playtests.

But pictures are back home.

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Just FAQ the existing title to include boost or make a light Scyk title that gives boost for one and finally get to slap AT on this thing.

And have the title change all speed 2 maneuvers green.

simple.

Maybe. Still lags behind the a-wing a bit though.

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Maybe its not that the Scyk is so bad, but that boost in general, and AT in particular is TOO good. Everything is relative. ;)

 

I'm not sure those elements are "too" good (boost was around a long time), but more that AT was a very important addition to keep fast, expensive ships relevant at a time when turrets were dominating.  Now, with TLTs, they are almost mandatory for those glass cannons, so ships that are low health and don't have access to either them or at least regen just aren't going to last long if they run up against them.

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Maybe its not that the Scyk is so bad, but that boost in general, and AT in particular is TOO good. Everything is relative. ;)

 

I'm not sure those elements are "too" good (boost was around a long time), but more that AT was a very important addition to keep fast, expensive ships relevant at a time when turrets were dominating.  Now, with TLTs, they are almost mandatory for those glass cannons, so ships that are low health and don't have access to either them or at least regen just aren't going to last long if they run up against them.

 

 

Agreed, a ship either needs to be cheap enough not to care, durable enough to take a few rounds of fire, or have some form of damage mitigation. Making it cheaper could possibly make the Z obsolete, same problem with making it more durable as it would infringe on the special K. That leaves gimmicky mitigation IMO, maybe give its own unique mechanic similar to AT?

 

Another possible and more interesting idea is give a unique ordnance mechanic. After seeing the new ordnance upgrade for the huge ships I'd love to see something similar on a small ship, and the Syck is probably one of the few ships it wouldn't be completely ridiculous on. Any opinions on how op it would be to let the Syck replace its attack for unlimited missiles or torpedoes with a hefty tax for the cost of the heavy title, and a 2-3 point modification? Would give it equal to or greater firepower then a HLC with the need to focus or TL for every shot, would still die like a fly and no mod slot to give it hull or stealth device.  

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If you really want boost that badly, the have the title card worth 0, but add both n illicit slot AND an additional modification slot like the Royal Guard Tie. You can then add both Engine and autothrusters should you so choose.

Ok, maybe still -1 cost.

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Eh, balance wise giving unlimited ordnance to a fatty might be a bit much as they have the slots needed to make it both action efficient and the durability to really abuse it. Might not make as much sense fluff wise to give it to the scyk, but it might not be overpowered, and it would give the little bugger a unique role.

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If you mean cost wise then sure, but that's not even one of the better options. Flechette, and Ion would be fun for control. Prockets, Plasma, Cluster & Assault for straight up murder. You could even load up your torpedo ships with tracers to give a little synergy.

 

Hell of a lot more interesting then a HLC.

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There are plenty of ideas to help with a direct fix.

Maybe they will release an upgrade in the future that is not unique to the m3A but will will make the ship a good option with it.

Pre-tlt-hwk:

Underwhelming, right?

TLT-hwk:

Worth considering.

Let's hope tractor beam will help the m3A and defender alike while not making already strong options stellar (eg brobots).

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If you mean cost wise then sure, but that's not even one of the better options. Flechette, and Ion would be fun for control. Prockets, Plasma, Cluster & Assault for straight up murder. You could even load up your torpedo ships with tracers to give a little synergy.

 

Hell of a lot more interesting then a HLC.

 

I've tried to work ordnance into my ships. I love the idea of tons of missiles being fired at the enemy. It just does not work on a ship that is not at least "chunky". I can have a Mangler Cannon which effect lasts the whole game or I can have a one shot missile/torpedo for the same cost that does roughly the same amount of damage. Since the Heavy Scyk doesn't have access to "extra munitions", again, it's a waste. For the missile/torpedo title cards, they need to have a built in "extra munitions" ability. In all my game play, the handful of times I've seen the scyk played (mostly when it was brand new) I have never seen the missile/torpedo variant.

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If the basic Scyk would be 13 points and the title 0 points ...

 

... would you consider 5 Scyks + HLC to be 'broken'?

Yes.

 

 

Agreed....which is why it should be a TITLE.  You can't take more than 1 title on a ship.  So...if you don't go with the Heavy Scyk, you get a point reduction.

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If the basic Scyk would be 13 points and the title 0 points ...

 

... would you consider 5 Scyks + HLC to be 'broken'?

 

I have a hard time believing that if four of them aren't seeing any competitive success as is now, then it would be very tough to argue five would break the game.  I mean, you can currently take four and give two of them defensive upgrades which would put the overall health of the list close to having five.

 

It would murder lists with similar or lower PS, however, it would face the same struggle that other swarms are facing right now, which is that there is a lot that could kill them before they shoot combined with avoiding some of their shots altogether.   I think it's comparable to what we are seeing a quad TLT list doing now, where it's very strong against some lists but isn't the best iteration of the list itself.

 

I think the main concern of making everything too cheap  is bringing down the cost of Serrisu and the TPV gets you to the point where you could have a cheap HLC swarm tactics chain shooting at 8, and that does start to get a little broken.   Subtracting three points total from everything means you could have Serrisu with an HLC at 26, two TPV at 23, and a Cartel at 20.  That comes out to 92 with eight points left over for at least three swarm tactics and 4 HLCs firing at 8.

 

It's why I think simply giving the Heavy Scyk a free hull when it adds the title is the best solution. It fits the title as well but keeps the points and the numbers of them in a list the same but adds a tick of durability to the ship that would make it competitive.

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If the basic Scyk would be 13 points and the title 0 points ...

 

... would you consider 5 Scyks + HLC to be 'broken'?

Yes.

 

Agreed....which is why it should be a TITLE.  You can't take more than 1 title on a ship.  So...if you don't go with the Heavy Scyk, you get a point reduction.

But then, doesn't that put us back to the point where we've essentially made it a TIE Fighter? I feel like the customizability is key to the M3-A in this game. Take that away and you're not left with much. With enough of a points reduction you could fit 8 in a list, but does that really fix the M3-A at all? I don't think it does. The Heavy Scyk would still have all the problems it has now.

If the current title were 0 points, I think that changes things enough. You still couldn't have 5 Heavy Lase Cannon Scyks or 5 "Mangler" Scyks with Stealth Device, but it doee let you put more other stuff in your squad. Suddenly the HLC scyks cost 21 instead of 23. That does allow you to put 4 in a list, each with a Stealth Device. You can get 5 "Manglers", but you can only put Stealth Device on 3 of them. You could put 5 Proton Rocket Scyks with Stealth Device or Hull Upgrade in a list. If you wanted to make it 4 Tansarii Point Veterans with Predator/Push the Limit, you could, but that's already possible. You'd just have an extra 8 points lying around. But if you break out of the all-Scyk mindset, the extra 2 points can buy you several different Illicits, a few good Elites upgrades, a chance to upgrade a generic to a higher pilot skill, or even just an initiative bid. I think that would do just a little bit more to make a Scyk's destruction easier to swallow and doesn't seem to add any broken combos.

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I kind of see the Scyk as the Scum Tie Fighter, anyways.  Rebels get cheap Z's.  Imperials get cheap Ties.  Scum gets both.  

 

I think the Scyk and Tie Fighter are different enough that it's OK.  The dials are similar, but not the same.  The shield matters.  They can't go 5 forward.  They have TL.  

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