2 many or 2 few dice

[jlomein 1]

I'm rather confused by everyone's rationalization. We do know one rule (paraphrased) from the official rules:

"If you choose an illegal maneuver on your dial (red manuever while stressed), give your dial to your opponent and he may choose any legal maneuver he wants."

From this ruling, I would think this rationale could be applied to rolling too many dice. If you made the mistake of rolling too many green dice, your opponent should be allowed to remove any of your green dice results he wants until the proper number of dice remain.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

The handing over your dial mechanic from revealing a red while stressed isn't there just as an FU to the player who screwed up. It's the only way to fix the violation that doesn't give the player who screwed up an advantage (knowing some of the opponent's maneuvers before choosing their new maneuver). We should not assume that it sets a precedent where if your opponent makes a mistake you get to kick them in the balls.

[StevenO 2,996]

Dials are SPECIFICALLY chosen.  Dice are RANDOM, or at least they are supposed to be.  That makes any comparison between an error in setting a dial and an error in the number of dice rolled completely irrelevant.  

[VanorDM 11,599]

We do know one rule (paraphrased) from the official rules:

You can not ever take a rule and apply it to a completely different and unrelated situation.

There is also no reason to do apply that rule, since a completely fair means already exists to fix this issue. Simply reroll the dice every time someone rolls to many and the issue is fixed.

[Harrald 2]

I would like to bump this thread back up, in hopes that FFG comes up with an answer. As the hobby grows, people can get pretty serious. Imagine a store/regional/world championship game. Both players have one ship and one hull left. Player A rolls 3 red dice and gets two hits. Player B rolls 4 green dice and rolls 2 evades...But player B rolled an extra die. Honest mistake...player B has been at range three for 4 attack rounds.

 

This could end the game for a Store/Regional/World tournament. I'm not looking to re-open the debate just trying to get TPTB to do something.

 

Instead of letting the players "work" it out OR forcing a TO to make a decision that one player will argue is wrong...Can't FFG just add to the errata?

 

Inquiring minds need to know!

[StevenO 2,996]

I would like to bump this thread back up, in hopes that FFG comes up with an answer. As the hobby grows, people can get pretty serious. Imagine a store/regional/world championship game. Both players have one ship and one hull left. Player A rolls 3 red dice and gets two hits. Player B rolls 4 green dice and rolls 2 evades...But player B rolled an extra die. Honest mistake...player B has been at range three for 4 attack rounds.

 

This could end the game for a Store/Regional/World tournament. I'm not looking to re-open the debate just trying to get TPTB to do something.

 

Instead of letting the players "work" it out OR forcing a TO to make a decision that one player will argue is wrong...Can't FFG just add to the errata?

 

Inquiring minds need to know!

 

What kind of answer do you expect?

 

Player B rolled too many dice.  Player B would completely void that roll and do it again with the correct number of dice.

 

The only possible reason for not completely voiding the first roll is if eliminating any dice down the appropriate number would still yield the exact same result.  If the 4 dice had all been the same then maybe cutting instead of rerolling is fine but an uncommon result.  Less acceptable would be that if player A rolled more "good" results than any combination of player B's dice could stop allowing the damage needed to KILL a target go through; wouldn't happen here.

 

The WORST possible "solution" for the mistake is to let the other player selectively choose which dice did not count.

 

Now if someone is rolling too many dice then a TO should be called to be made aware of the situation but this is mostly to establish a context for a potential cheating case.  Occasionally rolling a die too many and when strange circumstances come into play is one thing but a person who repeatedly rolls extra dice may be trying to pull a fast one by hoping they don't get caught.  By calling the TO you put that player on notice so that if it keeps happening it no longer seems so accidental.

[Achowat 131]

Too few - Roll some more, dammit.

Too many - In anything other than a casual setting, reroll them all. Casually, our group allows the non-transgressor to choose between a. which dice to ignore or b. causing a whole reroll. It makes sure that no one is rewarded for creating the wrong dice pool.

Askew - We use the dice-on-dice test. It's a simple way to see if a die needs a reroll.

Die on the floor - We play that if you say "I'm keeping it" while it's obviously still rolling, you get to keep it as it lands. Otherwise, just reroll that one die. Granted, this comes from a D&D ruling, but I'd have no issue with an individual reroll either.

[Parravon 5,217]

Too few - Roll some more, dammit.

Too many - In anything other than a casual setting, reroll them all. Casually, our group allows the non-transgressor to choose between a. which dice to ignore or b. causing a whole reroll. It makes sure that no one is rewarded for creating the wrong dice pool.

Askew - We use the dice-on-dice test. It's a simple way to see if a die needs a reroll.

Die on the floor - We play that if you say "I'm keeping it" while it's obviously still rolling, you get to keep it as it lands. Otherwise, just reroll that one die. Granted, this comes from a D&D ruling, but I'd have no issue with an individual reroll either.

At our gaming club, we've done away with the die on die method of figuring cocked dice. It's too much faffing around. It's either flat on the table or it's cocked, and cocked dice are rolled again. If there's going to be something that's likely to cock a dice when you roll them, find a clearer area to roll them. It keeps it simple.

 

As for off the table, it simply doesn't count. Roll it again so it lands on the table. I honestly get quite annoyed when players roll dice that often fly off the table. We had one guy that used to toss them up about two feet above the tabletop. After falling dice damaged too many player's models he was told (not asked) to stop being such a clown and just roll the dice properly. You don't need to be hurling dice around the table to the extent they are leaving the table or damaging models when falling from a great height.

[VanorDM 11,599]

Yeah not sure what FFG would or should say.

It's a situation that really is best left up to the players to work out or the TO, and not a rule set. Rules tend to be zero tolerance and that can cause it's own issue.

The default method should be rolling the correct number of dice. There is no advantage in doing so, so it is the most fair method.

However if you rolled 4 dice and got 4 <evades> I could see the attacking player say that you might as well count that as 3 <evades> since the extra dice in this case really didn't do anything.

Unless you believe that by rolling an extra dice that changes the physics of the roll and that somehow leads to a predictably more favorable result...

[godofcheese 456]

This is now, I believe, pretty clearly covered in the FAQ.

[Parravon 5,217]

This is now, I believe, pretty clearly covered in the FAQ.

Why do I get the impression that the FAQ entry on rolling dice was inspired by this very thread?

[SPARTAN VI 20]

Sorry, not contributing, but I had to:

 

[VanorDM 11,599]

One thing about that ruling that I find a little confusing.

It says if you roll too few dice you are supposed to leave the current dice roll intact and roll extra dice until you get to to whatever amount is correct.

 

But... What happens if you only have 3 dice and have to roll 4 or 5?  It seems you can on longer pick up a die and reroll it if you don't have enough.

 

You could reroll blanks I suppose, but if you rolled 3 <hit> and/or <crit> results then what do you do?

 

Also in the new tournament rules they changed it so you can request that both sides share the same dice pool.

[ForceSensitive 2,628]

Way back in the day over many a game of Axis+Allies and Risk, me and my friends came to the conclusion that it was not the results of the dice we were annoyed with in a case of too many ruled. It was that we had been dragged through the suspense of watching you roll, fail to do well, then realize you had rolled to many and then get dragged through the suspense of watching you roll again and....

The problem was that fit us, succeed or fail, we saw the results of a roll. And to then day you get a second chance at it, because you bucked up, didn't seem appropriate. After all you'd been playing ask day and you should know how this game works.

Or solution was simple. When you didn't to enough, yeah, go ahead and roll the extra. In the case of rolling too many, you lose your best results, down to the number of dice you should have rolled. So in Risk you would lose dice that had the highest number results and in Axis you lose your lowest number results. In X-wing you would lose in order: crits, hits, focus, blanks.

That way, the dice you rolled were the dice you rolled. Period. If you rolled to many, as a honest mistake or an effort to cheat, and you were caught, you lost out on your high end gains that were the goal, or the benefit of your error. And the other guy didn't have a chance to get his hopes up OR dashed at you rerolling.