2 many or 2 few dice

[tk426 160]

I've looked through all the rule books. And I've used the search function to find an answer but my Google foo has failed me. Does FFG have a rule or guideline for when the wrong amount of dice are rolled. This may seem trivial to some but to others it's not.

I've played Heroclix for over 10 years and there were rules for dice rolling. If one of the two dice fell on the floor both dice get re-rolled. If one dice was cocked they both get re-rolled. We only used 2D6 so we didn't have to worry about rolling the incorrect amount of dice.

Now in X-Wing it's just the opposite. I see no clear rules. But if someone rolls one to many evade dice and evades everything I feel they should re-roll with the correct amount of dice. While other's simply say you take out the best die result and keep the rest. And when a dice falls on the floor they simply re-roll just that dice.

Is there proper dice etiquette in X-Wing?

Is it wrong to want clear dice rules/guidelines so rules disputes won't happen?

Edited November 26, 2015 by tk426

[Parravon 5,217]

There are no real etiquette dice rules within X-wing, but I generally prefer a complete reroll with the correct number if there's too many, or just rolling missing dice and adding them to the results. As for dice off the table, just roll them onto the table. Any that have already been rolled on the table can stay where they are. A cocked die is generally rolled again at our local club.

[StevenO 2,996]

There may be "proper" dice etiquette but there is no official ruling when rolling too many.  Because it is possible to have a roll call for more dice than a player has there IS a piece in there where you roll your dice and record those results before picking up some dice and rolling for the remainder.  You may not be wrong about wanting official rules but this should not be an issue.

 

1.  If too many dice are rolled then void all of them and roll again using the correct number of dice.  The only acceptable exception would be is if ALL of the dice rolled show the same result so that extras could be removed easily as it would not have altered the initial roll but this.  Neither side should gain an advantage when too many dice are rolled.

 

2.  If too few dice are rolled then roll additional dice until you have enough.  Sometimes this could me recording a roll to count as a die for later use and the reusing the die as extras.

 

3.  If a die result can be argued it should be rolled again.  If dice need to be rolled in a certain area that should be stated at the start of the game.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Re-roll the correct number dice. It is the only legal option available to you.

Edited November 26, 2015 by ScottieATF

[kopmcginty 609]

Re-roll the correct number dice. It is the only legal option available to you.

But that's not the case if the rules don't state that.

I'm with most if the above. For too few dice roll the extra. Be careful not to have influenced the game state through spending of tokens etc though. If the game state has changed or you've moved to the next stage of resolving an attachment K it may have to go down as a missed opportunity.

As for too many rolled. I once rolled 3 die with a TIE against a Wedge attack. Got three evades woohoo.. Oh hang on should have only been 2 dice. As I had rolled all the same maybe I could have argued just remove one but we have always rerolled all dice for that so I did and of course came up blanks!

Consistency is important.

[Scrubby Guy 15]

Re-rolling. I think it's the most reasonable and legitimate option when an incorrect amount of dice is rolled.

As for a cocked die or a die on the floor, general wargaming etiquette tends to dictate you re-roll only that die rather than the whole lot. I would imagine you might meet some resistance should you attempt to re-roll all the dice when one is invalid (particularly if the valid dice displayed a poor result...).

As long as you are consistent with your approach, however, I suppose any resonable course of action works. Perhaps it's something to clarify before the start of a game with opponents not known to you, particularly in a competitive setting.

[SaszaPL 75]

Please, note that if you have only one core set, you have only 3 dice of a type. This means that even in a very basic games you may be running into situations where you need to roll more than 3 dice. Therefore I think that the rules cannot be written too strictly.

[StevenO 2,996]

Please, note that if you have only one core set, you have only 3 dice of a type. This means that even in a very basic games you may be running into situations where you need to roll more than 3 dice. Therefore I think that the rules cannot be written too strictly.

 

Re-roll the correct number dice. It is the only legal option available to you.

 

As one may not have "the correct number of dice" to roll requiring a re-roll is NOT an acceptable general rule.

 

If you roll too few you must roll additional dice until you have enough; if you do not have the additional dice you record result and then pick up the dice needed to complete the roll.  If too many dice are rolled then the entire result is voided and the roll is done over with the correct number of dice.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

In my group, in any tourney ive played in, and in every tourney ive watch, 3 of the 4 areas the OP listed have very clear etiquette in x-wing.

1) Roll too few: leave original dice and roll additional dice up to the correct total.

2) Roll too many dice: reroll everything with the correct total.

3) Dice off table: just reroll that dice on table.

The last issue is a dixe askew. I see mixed solutions. Some use the dice test. If you place another dice on top and the die falls to the side, reroll. If it stays flat, you get the most obvious top facing result. Others just reroll any askew die. We've taken the balancing act as the method of choice in our group.

[tk426 160]

In my group, in any tourney ive played in, and in every tourney ive watch, 3 of the 4 areas the OP listed have very clear etiquette in x-wing.

1) Roll too few: leave original dice and roll additional dice up to the correct total.

2) Roll too many dice: reroll everything with the correct total.

3) Dice off table: just reroll that dice on table.

The last issue is a dixe askew. I see mixed solutions. Some use the dice test. If you place another dice on top and the die falls to the side, reroll. If it stays flat, you get the most obvious top facing result. Others just reroll any askew die. We've taken the balancing act as the method of choice in our group.

These are the general dice rules that I've seen and try to follow but was curious as what other players do. My personal choice is to re-roll all dice in any situation.

Let's say your facing me in a tournament and my method is to re-roll all dice and your method is to use the above description. Who's right and who's wrong. Would I be in the wrong to pick up my dice and re-roll if I rolled to few dice?

Should FFG introduce something in the rules regarding this?

[Parravon 5,217]

 

In my group, in any tourney ive played in, and in every tourney ive watch, 3 of the 4 areas the OP listed have very clear etiquette in x-wing.

1) Roll too few: leave original dice and roll additional dice up to the correct total.

2) Roll too many dice: reroll everything with the correct total.

3) Dice off table: just reroll that dice on table.

The last issue is a dixe askew. I see mixed solutions. Some use the dice test. If you place another dice on top and the die falls to the side, reroll. If it stays flat, you get the most obvious top facing result. Others just reroll any askew die. We've taken the balancing act as the method of choice in our group.

These are the general dice rules that I've seen and try to follow but was curious as what other players do. My personal choice is to re-roll all dice in any situation.

Let's say your facing me in a tournament and my method is to re-roll all dice and your method is to use the above description. Who's right and who's wrong. Would I be in the wrong to pick up my dice and re-roll if I rolled to few dice?

Should FFG introduce something in the rules regarding this?

 

With the relative rarity of this happening, I think two players can come to a consensus as to how to resolve it during a game. I don't think FFG need to make more rules in what is a fairly simple rulebook already.  I don't recall ever seeing a set of game rules that stipulates what to do in event of not enough or too many dice. At the local wargames club where I play, we have a standing dice etiquette that's been in place for over twenty years, regardless of the ruleset in use, and we've never had an issue.

[Hobojebus 11,341]

If you roll too few it's not a big issue to roll an additional dice until you have the right number.

If you roll too many there is no fair way to pick a dice to discard so rerolling is the only option.

I wish I could say it's common sense but there's always TFG who will try to cheat in this situation.

[StevenO 2,996]

When you initially roll too few the important thing is that whatever you do you ALWAYS react to it the same way.  If this mean rerolling then you reroll but if it means rolling additional dice then you roll additional dice.  What is NOT acceptable is going both ways such that if you are supposed to roll 4 dice and roll 3 you can not look at those results before deciding to reroll everything or just roll the extra die to get you the right number.

 

I'd love to say you should reroll in all situations but that excludes the real chance that you are called to roll more dice than you actually have which would then be impossible to resolve.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

In my group, in any tourney ive played in, and in every tourney ive watch, 3 of the 4 areas the OP listed have very clear etiquette in x-wing.

1) Roll too few: leave original dice and roll additional dice up to the correct total.

2) Roll too many dice: reroll everything with the correct total.

3) Dice off table: just reroll that dice on table.

The last issue is a dixe askew. I see mixed solutions. Some use the dice test. If you place another dice on top and the die falls to the side, reroll. If it stays flat, you get the most obvious top facing result. Others just reroll any askew die. We've taken the balancing act as the method of choice in our group.

These are the general dice rules that I've seen and try to follow but was curious as what other players do. My personal choice is to re-roll all dice in any situation.

Let's say your facing me in a tournament and my method is to re-roll all dice and your method is to use the above description. Who's right and who's wrong. Would I be in the wrong to pick up my dice and re-roll if I rolled to few dice?

Should FFG introduce something in the rules regarding this?

TO can always decide

[WWHSD 9,273]

Rerolling everything if one die hits the floor or lands askew seems like an odd way to go. I wonder why Heroclix decided to go that with that.

[tk426 160]

Rerolling everything if one die hits the floor or lands askew seems like an odd way to go. I wonder why Heroclix decided to go that with that.

Another rule was you had to roll both dice at the same time. otherwise you would have had players rolling one dice at a time and if it was a low result one could just throw the other dice on the floor until they got the result they were looking for.

I no longer play clix. But because I played for so long some of those habits are ingrained in me. Better or worse.

[Parravon 5,217]

 

Rerolling everything if one die hits the floor or lands askew seems like an odd way to go. I wonder why Heroclix decided to go that with that.

Another rule was you had to roll both dice at the same time. otherwise you would have had players rolling one dice at a time and if it was a low result one could just throw the other dice on the floor until they got the result they were looking for.

I no longer play clix. But because I played for so long some of those habits are ingrained in me. Better or worse.

 

Well, I don't think there would be a better example of cheating a game than that. It's probably an excellent reason why there AREN'T any dice throwing rules in X-wing. There used to be a guy that came to our gaming club that would throw dice one at a time. When he saw a low result, he'd try and roll the next one to hit the first one and knock it onto something else. Hate those cheating @#&%s!

[Darkcloak 1,283]

During a team match the other day the opponent was doing "practice rolls"  while waiting for his turn.  You know, holding his hand flat and letting the dice slide off his hand onto the table.  So I watched him roll a bunch of crits (why do cheaters always want to attack?) and so I grabbed some greens and said, "Hey check it out!", and started setting the dice evade side up in the palm of my hand.

'You know there is a reason why FFG picked D8s. For one, they're a Platonic Solid, and our psyche appreciates the little things.  And secondly a D8 is a good die, but not very random.  They don't bounce very well."  And here I started to roll the dice as he had done.  'The true randomizing factor in a dice roll is the number of times the die is allowed to bounce, and various other things like speed, rotation, surface friction.'  I looked down at my dice.  Several evades.  I looked back up and play had ceased.  'So you see, if one wanted...'  I trailed off as I began to roll green dice in the manner I had before, with predictable results.  'One could, with a little practice, get pretty good at rolling dice like these.'  I continued, 'Though, I'm not sure that's exactly the way FFG intended to use d8s!'  I grabbed all the dice, red and green, shook them in both hands and tossed them on the table.  With predictale results.

'Green dice just suck...' Another player chimed in. 

    Play continued with vigorously shaken dice, especially the green ones, but the results were still unpredictable.  Temperatures of the die themselves were not measured, even when proclaimed to be warmer than normal.

 

Oh yeah, and here is a simple rule to use!  Just a basic tenent of dice games really.

 

When to re-roll all dice?  When rolled out of sequence and/or if the wrong amount of die is rolled.

When to re-roll one or more dice?  When a dice is cocked, or off the play area/rolling area, re-roll that dice only.

[Parravon 5,217]

I never understood the concept of "practice rolls". Are the dice getting trained in the fine art of landing on the desired result? Whenever you practice something, you do so to learn and get better at it. But when the dice are an unintelligent component of the game, they aren't likely to learn anything, are they?

 

I find it just as amusing when a player make a "practice" roll and then selects the dice that gave him the most favourable results as the ones to use for his next attack/defence roll. Clearly those particular dice have achieved a higher level of understanding of what the player demands from them than the others that now sit forlornly on the side line wondering if their moment of glory will come.

 

Anyway, philosophical meanderings aside, I'm sure we can all figure out how to roll some dice in a proper random fashion, and if someone is doing something dodgy, then you just ask them to stop it. 

[VanorDM 11,599]

Are the dice getting trained in the fine art of landing on the desired result?

That's exactly what it is. You're training them to land on the side you want. Some people think they're just inanimate objects that generate random values. But the truth is they're vicious creatures whose sole purpose is to lull you into a false sense of security so they can absorb the rage and fury you feel when they inevitably betray you at a critical moment.

If you lose a beloved character or get knocked out of a tournament they like it even better, because your tears are extra sweet to them in those cases.

On a more serious note, the answer is IMO simple. Roll too many and reroll, don't roll enough then roll more.

If it's a case where removing extra dice won't change anything, because they're all <hit> or <evade> results then I'm inclined to let the roll stand.

[Parravon 5,217]

 

Are the dice getting trained in the fine art of landing on the desired result?

That's exactly what it is. You're training them to land on the side you want. Some people think they're just inanimate objects that generate random values. But the truth is they're vicious creatures whose sole purpose is to lull you into a false sense of security so they can absorb the rage and fury you feel when they inevitably betray you at a critical moment.

If you lose a beloved character or get knocked out of a tournament they like it even better, because your tears are extra sweet to them in those cases.

On a more serious note, the answer is IMO simple. Roll too many and reroll, don't roll enough then roll more.

If it's a case where removing extra dice won't change anything, because they're all <hit> or <evade> results then I'm inclined to let the roll stand.

 

Clearly, they are strong with the Dark Side and feed on those emotions of rage and hatred. I know mine seem to. They prefer to come up with crappy results more than any other, just to wind me up. 

[godofcheese 456]

How our group resolves it:

 

Roll too many dice: - ignore the roll and do it again with the correct number of dice, regardless of the first result (good or bad)

Roll too few dice: - roll additional dice up to the correct number, the initial roll stands regardess of the result (good or bad)

Any dice is cocked (no matter how slightly): - it gets announced as cocked by either player and gets rerolled

Any dice falls on the floor: - it gets picked up and rerolled, any dice that landed on the table stand.

[Parravon 5,217]

How our group resolves it:

 

Roll too many dice: - ignore the roll and do it again with the correct number of dice, regardless of the first result (good or bad)

Roll too few dice: - roll additional dice up to the correct number, the initial roll stands regardess of the result (good or bad)

Any dice is cocked (no matter how slightly): - it gets announced as cocked by either player and gets rerolled

Any dice falls on the floor: - it gets picked up and rerolled, any dice that landed on the table stand.

Seems to be the general standard around the world so far.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

 

I find it just as amusing when a player make a "practice" roll and then selects the dice that gave him the most favourable results as the ones to use for his next attack/defence roll. Clearly those particular dice have achieved a higher level of understanding of what the player demands from them than the others that now sit forlornly on the side line wondering if their moment of glory

Thisis actually something I do and I fully admit I select what I 'feel' are the best dice to start with for my attacks and there are times I superstitiously switch those out.

The one point I'd disagree with is that doing so can't reveal something worthwhile. They may be inanimate objects, but they are manufactured in mass and they are imperfect. The salt test reveals this. Some dice are balanced, others more likely to hit/focus,and some more likely to blank out. In a big pile, randomness is created by the varying dice involved, but one could identify the best dice in their set if they wanted to do tedious testing.

[Darkcloak 1,283]

The best dice in one's set?  Hmmm... definitely not the evade dice!