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Highest PS not euqual best pilot ability: better diversity of pilots in the meta?

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With Echo, you can go places that other ships literally can't go. If you're using her to fly into positions where she will definitely get shot at, that is your own problem.

 

Same thing with Lorrir. Lorrir can make maneuvers that other ships literally can't make. You can position yourself in places where it is literally impossible for non-turreted ships to shoot you no matter what their PS. PS isn't the end-all, be-all.

 

The difference between Echo and Lorrir is when Lorrir uses his ability, he ends up stressed with unmodified dice. When Echo uses her ability, she still has her action and two upgrade slots that greatly improve her action economy.

 

 

Totally agree, but Echo is also a lot more expensive than Lorrir.

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With Echo, you can go places that other ships literally can't go. If you're using her to fly into positions where she will definitely get shot at, that is your own problem.

 

Same thing with Lorrir. Lorrir can make maneuvers that other ships literally can't make. You can position yourself in places where it is literally impossible for non-turreted ships to shoot you no matter what their PS. PS isn't the end-all, be-all.

 

The difference between Echo and Lorrir is when Lorrir uses his ability, he ends up stressed with unmodified dice. When Echo uses her ability, she still has her action and two upgrade slots that greatly improve her action economy.

 

 

Totally agree, but Echo is also a lot more expensive than Lorrir.

 

 

4 attack dice,

Echo's only problem is that it's PS9's FOOD. 

Edited by Warpman

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With Echo, you can go places that other ships literally can't go. If you're using her to fly into positions where she will definitely get shot at, that is your own problem.

 

Same thing with Lorrir. Lorrir can make maneuvers that other ships literally can't make. You can position yourself in places where it is literally impossible for non-turreted ships to shoot you no matter what their PS. PS isn't the end-all, be-all.

 

The difference between Echo and Lorrir is when Lorrir uses his ability, he ends up stressed with unmodified dice. When Echo uses her ability, she still has her action and two upgrade slots that greatly improve her action economy.

 

 

Totally agree, but Echo is also a lot more expensive than Lorrir.

 

 

4 attack dice,

Echo's only problem is that it's PS9's FOOD. 

 

ever run Echo with  Calculation and Rec spec along with Vader with Decoy and EU... no? well its sexy

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Echo is only food for Han, VI Chiraneau, and Dengar. You don't need to move last to arc dodge when you have that much displacement ability. Granted, you do need to be good at predicting where your opponent will be and visualizing where Echo's side de-cloaks put her, but that's why I called her one of the most skill intensive pilots in the game.

And fortunately for Echo, TLT has Han and Chirpy running scared.

Edited by Squark

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http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Scum%20and%20Villainy&d=v3!s!126:135,38,112:-1:-1:;125:57,37,-1,-1:3:-1:;101:57,-1:16:15:U.44,U.-1

 

People hate me for running this list...being unconventional can be a huge advantage (you should try it some day ;) )!

I enjoy being the "You're running what?!" guy.  

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Echo is only food for Han, VI Chiraneau, and Dengar. You don't need to move last to arc dodge when you have that much displacement ability. Granted, you do need to be good at predicting where your opponent will be and visualizing where Echo's side de-cloaks put her, but that's why I called her one of the most skill intensive pilots in the game.

And fortunately for Echo, TLT has Han and Chirpy running scared.

Phantoms have special feature, they love to shoot first, not go last.

In case of PS9 Echo always shoots last, no matter who has the initiative.

 

It's not just crucial, it's their life and death question.

Against a 9-skill echo is just a Z-95 in terms of survivability.

A couple of turns firepower that is. And (s)he is nowhere near expensive...

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Echo is only food for Han, VI Chiraneau, and Dengar. You don't need to move last to arc dodge when you have that much displacement ability. Granted, you do need to be good at predicting where your opponent will be and visualizing where Echo's side de-cloaks put her, but that's why I called her one of the most skill intensive pilots in the game.

And fortunately for Echo, TLT has Han and Chirpy running scared.

Phantoms have special feature, they love to shoot first, not go last.

In case of PS9 Echo always shoots last, no matter who has the initiative.

 

It's not just crucial, it's their life and death question.

Against a 9-skill echo is just a Z-95 in terms of survivability.

A couple of turns firepower that is. And (s)he is nowhere near expensive...

 

 

That PS9 would have to be able to shoot at Echo first. Echo can go in directions that no other ship can go in. You move Echo to places where no ship (other than a turret) could possibly shoot her. I mean, Echo can move to positions behind her or even basically remain stationary. Echo doesn't insta-die to PS9+.

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Echo is only food for Han, VI Chiraneau, and Dengar. You don't need to move last to arc dodge when you have that much displacement ability. Granted, you do need to be good at predicting where your opponent will be and visualizing where Echo's side de-cloaks put her, but that's why I called her one of the most skill intensive pilots in the game.

And fortunately for Echo, TLT has Han and Chirpy running scared.

Phantoms have special feature, they love to shoot first, not go last.

In case of PS9 Echo always shoots last, no matter who has the initiative.

 

It's not just crucial, it's their life and death question.

Against a 9-skill echo is just a Z-95 in terms of survivability.

A couple of turns firepower that is. And (s)he is nowhere near expensive...

 

No, you see, that doesn't work, because the Z-95 is a sluggish ship with poor response time that even I can predict the likely moves of. Echo doesn't care that Wedge, Soontir, and Vader are PS 9 because she's not in their firing arc. If Echo is getting shot at by something that actually stands a decent chance of hurting her, you screwed up.

 

Now, accurately predicting where your opponent will be is tricky, definitely. There's a difference between Echo's performance in theory and her performance in the hands of the average player. But with practice and a good head for visualization? She will dance circles around every other ship in the game.

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Keep in mind that abilities and pilot skill go hand in hand. For example Tarn Misson would have a terrible ability if he were a higher pilot skill such as 6 or 7. Since his pilot skill is low his ability has the chance of triggering and making the most of it that turn. Also pilot skill can work against the pilot ability. Darth Vader has the highest pilot skill in the game, however if he gets blocked by a lower skill pilot his ability becomes useless. 

Edited by Marinealver

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I was just thinking if we would see a broader diversity of pilots if the best pilot ability would not simultaneously have the highest pilot skill.

 

I know, that thematically best pilots should have highest pilot skills (best of the best), but for the sake of the game it would be healthy to have some pilots with super abilites with lower PS (like Tarn Mison). I assume this would shuffle the PS competition leading to a better mixture of pilots.

 

For example Soontir Fel could have PS 6 (or PS 9 but different ability). Many players would also take a PS 5 pilot with Soontirs ability. Other would prefer higher PS pilot but with less good pilot abilities. Same of course with most of the other ships, like A-wings with Jake and Tycho or T-70 with Poe or E-wings with Corran etc.

 

Maybe this could be concerned for many pilots in the following waves.

 

 

Thoughts on this?

Guri has epicly good ability but lousy PS5.

She has no use outside local funplay. 

 

Echo has cool ability, but lousy PS6

 

Blue ace has cool ability, but it's near USELESS with his PS6

 

Garven Dreis ability is of no use if his lousy PS6 is not the highest among the force.

Same goes to Dutch Vander

 

Lorrir's ability would have been col, had he been not a lousy PS5 DERPilot

 

Well, it's simply as is.

If you take the PS race in mind, in many cases a lower PS would ruin the most used build, but not provide a new one.

 

 

Yeah.  I'd add Keyan at 7 to that.  

Vessery at 6. 

Ndru at 7. 

Juno at 8. 

 

 

There's lots of diversity, but we mostly need a rules change or an upgrade that is geared towards PS3 to 7.  

 

Something like:

Installation slot

1pt

Equip this installation only if your PS is 3 or higher.

After an enemy ship with higher PS has executed a maneuver, you may discard this card to perform a free barrel roll or boost action if that action is in your action bar.  

 

---

 

Having the right PS 8 9 10, is just usually too good of a thing and is too binary for the game to exceed via just pilot ability. 

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hmm, let me run down the list

 

X-wing

 

*Tarn has very solid synergy with R7 (3)

*Biggs has been said to be game-breaking (5) <--

*I have seen nothing impressive about Hobbie nor Jek (5 & 7)

*Wedge, Luke, and Wes are pretty impressive (8 & 9) <--

 

Tie Fighter

 

*Black Squadrons can take Crackshot (4) <--

*Winged Gundark is the suck, but Nightbeast is legit (5)

*Dark curse and Backstabber are both awesome (6)

*Mauler is very situational (7)

*Howlrunner is the undisputed queen of the Tie (8) <--

 

Y-wing

 

*neither named pilot is seen much and I personally can make no meaningful distinction between Dutch's support and Horton's self support

havn't played the scum characters

 

Tie Advance

 

*imo, all the named Advance Pilots apart from Vader are incredibly situational

*Strom is pretty cool (6)

*Vader is the undisputed king of cool (9) <--

 

Yt-1300

 

don't like; can't comment

 

Firespray

 

none of the Imperial versions are particularly impressive; default to Kath if I have to (7)

 

for scum, I actually really enjoy Kath's phantom-in-the-arse rear arc (7) <--

scum Boba's ability is slightly situational and potentially suicide, but powerful (8)

 

A-wing

 

Gemmer is situational (green dice <_< ) but useful against enemy generics (5)

poor Arvel is overpriced for what he does :( (6)

Jake's is the most popular and imo the most fun (7) <-- ?

Tycho is a complete meta call, especially with Heaver declaring r3-a2 BTL-a4 to be the best rebel ship evar (8) <-- ?

 

HWK-290

 

not enough experience with Rebels, but I want to saw Roark (4)

for Scum, Dace's ability is evidently situational compared to Mux's and Palob's (3 & 5) <--

 

Lambda

 

omnicron has the best pilot ability: being cheap (2) <--

Yorr may be seeing more play in the coming days (remember, r3-a2) (4)

 

B-wing

 

Nera is highly situational, given the lack of power of ordnance. Wave 8 may change that (5)

Ibsy is expensive with a powerful ability that is sadly hampered by the Bs lack of greens (6)

Keyan's the man, doing the impossible by making the B-wing mobile (7) <--

Nien is overpriced and has a situational ability that only punches one damage through (8)

 

Z-95

 

bandit/Tala have the best pilot abilities: being cheap (2-4) <--

never touched scum characters, cannot comment

 

Tie Defender

 

Vessery hands-down. His ability is situational, but obviously powerful (6) <--

Rexlar's ability is both situational and actively hampers his action efficiency (8)

 

E-wing

E'athn's ability is very powerful, but I personally have had trouble building a list around it (5)

Corran's corran, we all know him and how painful his double-tap is (8) <--

 

Tie phantom

 

Advanced Cloaking Device, dice mods, and general personal incompetence have me too biased towards Whisper to try Echo

 

YT-2400

 

Vrill cannot set up his own ability, but it is powerful (3)

Leebo is the definition of incredibly situational abilities (5)

Dash ignores a fundamental aspect of the game and kicks ass while doing so (7) <--

 

VT-49 decimator

 

too biased against everything that isn't Oicuun. Cheri's boring ass is probably more effective because of his reliability, but Oicuun just eclipses him with sheer awesomeness

 

M3-A Scyk

 

ew, green dice based abilities

 

Starviper

 

unclear

Xizor's ability is easily the most under-appreciated in the game; it is disgustingly powerful but requires specific squads

Guri's ability is just powerful in general

 

IG-88

 

THEY'RE ALL PS 6!!!!!!!! (B stands for "best")

 

YV-666

 

due to my opinion that the YV-666 simply cannot be played as a fat ship until it get defensive tech, Lattz gets my vote for the most generally useful ability. It's powerful and requires minimal investment (k4 and wep engineer) to enable (5) <--

 

both Moralo and Bossk have solid abilities, but they require a lot of upgrades to enable (cannon + mods for Moralo, crit + mods for Bossk) and the YV-666 isn't the ideal frame for a fat ship (6 & 7)

 

Special-K Fighter

 

Garz buffs agility...so useless :P (6)

Cobra also buffs agility, but he has prockets at range 1. Winner by default (9) <--

 

K-wing

 

Esege is incredibly expensive for a support pilot that, unlike Dutch, can't even help himself. Need to focus also interferes with K's ability to fart out mines (6)

 

Miranda's ability is flexible and, used defensively, incredibly potent. It turns the K into an incredibly survivable ship (8) <--

 

Tie Punisher

 

both pilots are far too wildly different to compare directly

 

if pressed, however, I'd say Deathrain because he completely transcends your expectations of this fat ass lumbering brute of a ship (6) <--

 

also, he's just stupidly fun and bombs ignore dice :lol:

 

T-70

 

Blue Ace's ability is very powerful, but the T-70 feels so incomplete without Poe because it is lacking some crucial tech (integrated and targeting, coming out in individual packs) (5)

 

Poe's ability gives him some incredibly reliability and, when combined with thrusters and/or r2-d2/r5-p9, durability (8) <--

 

Tie/fo Fighter

 

Zeta ace is a wonderful pain in the ass, flexibly useful as an arc-dodger against lower Ps and blocker against higher (5)

 

Epsilon Leader has a powerful if slightly situational ability, great with swarms and may become more greatly used as r3-a2 gains more exposure

 

Omega Ace has some nice guarantees, but it is imo too clunky for what it does to be rated very highly (7)

 

Omega Leader is utterly disgusting, and probably the most economical of the late game aces. His ability is restricted by TL, but it's so extensive in the amount of upgrades it slips past that it's hard not to admire (8) <--

 

 

FORGOT Tie Interceptor

*poor Lorrir; great shenanigans at far too high a price :( (5)

 

*poorer Fel's Wrath; has to die to use his ability (5)

 

*Kir has a solid ability, but is enable to exploit it since he cannot modify his attacks further without outside help (6)

 

*Tetran's ability only applies to red manuevers, quite situational (7)

 

*Turr's ability is very flexible and gets around one of the Interceptor's greatest foes: being blocked (7)

 

*Carnor has perhaps the second least appreciated ability in the game, behind Xizor. It's incredibly powerful, hampered only by the fact that it exposes the dicey interceptor to Range 1. (8) <---

 

*Soontir, you know him and you love him. His ability is surprisingly flexible beyond PTL, letting you k-turn into blocks for focus or (if you're brave) barrel through debris for the same returns. (9) <--

 

 

 

 

so yeah, I'd have to agree that, largely, the higher PS pilots have the more generally useful abilities; sometimes by an incredible margin :(

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Now, let's try to condense everything and see if we can spot a pattern

 

Premise: Higher PS pilots have the more generally appreciable abilities out of all other pilots in their ship-type

 

 

Fickle's Top 5 Hall of Subverted Expectations (great abilities @ low PS)

 

5.) Biggles, for always being the first to die

4.) Palob, for laughing at your his action efficiency

3.) Mux, for taking for pilot skill and beating you over the head with it

2.) Oicuun, for doing the impossible by making PWTs fun to fly (and more smashing green dice in the face)

1.) DEATHRAIN, for being one of the most fun things you'll ever fly (but also one of the most difficult)

 

pardon my personal bias, but from what I can gather:

 

  • these abilities are largely dice independent. Apart from Palob's focus plucking, none of them directly manipulate the odds of dice throws.
  • these abilities are largely attack independent. This point extends from the first one, but it bears distinguishing. None of these abilities give half a **** about whether or not the pilot gets to shoot at you; they work regardless. In a way, these abilities are PS independent, except for Deathrain who actively rewards lower PS by dumping Conners on fools before they activate

 

Given the disadvantage of lower PS, having an ability that doesn't require aligning arcs against higher PS pilots may be what distinguishes a powerful low PS pilot from a poorer one. This may also explain the amount of mid-PS support abilities in the rebel arsenal, from Dutch to Kyle to Esege

 

exceptions abound, of course. Vessery's ability hits with disgusting force, and Echo's ability can help her slip around a higher PS ace that doesn't have the same manuevering flexibility as she does.

 

 

 

 

 

might do a bottom five later (spoiler alert: Fel's Wrath is #worst)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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X-wing

 

*Wedge, Luke, and Wes are pretty impressive (8 & 9) <--

 

Y-wing

 

*neither named pilot is seen much and I personally can make no meaningful distinction between Dutch's support and Horton's self support

havn't played the scum characters

 

YT-2400

 

Vrill cannot set up his own ability, but it is powerful (3)

 

 

Special-K Fighter

 

Cobra also buffs agility, but he has prockets at range 1. Winner by default (9) <--

 

X-65 is a boostless hunk'o'junk.

That's the problem with it. Pilots are great, but with underpar maneuverability... you have to buy EU while T-70 gets to buy an Autothruster. And is generally more effective point-wise.

 

Jansen's ability could have been cooler if not the timing of it.

 

Never tried the Merc Y-wing named pilots? Do it, do it now :D

AWESOME

 

Vril's ability works only with 2400's innate 2 attacks, and 2 attacks already don't do much. And guess what? This time it's 2 attacks VS AUTOTHRUSTERS!

 

Cobra's ability doesn't work with anything but primary weapons

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I can't try the Merc Y-wing named pilots

 

the Y-wing is a boostless hunko'junk

 

 

Vrill's ability explicitly takes care of its 2-dice primary, hence why it's powerful. Problem is he can't enable it himself, hence why it's situational.

 

 

 

 

Cobra's ability works on his own primaries (yay 5 dice range 1)

 

 

his ability isn't the best, but neither is his competition :(

 

 

 

remember, these abilities are all relative to the other abilities of pilots within the same ship-class (and fueled largely by my personal biases because objective assessments are ******* difficult)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Now, let's try to condense everything and see if we can spot a pattern

 

Premise: Higher PS pilots have the more generally appreciable abilities out of all other pilots in their ship-type

 

 

Fickle's Top 5 Hall of Subverted Expectations (great abilities @ low PS)

 

5.) Biggles, for always being the first to die

4.) Palob, for laughing at your his action efficiency

3.) Mux, for taking for pilot skill and beating you over the head with it

2.) Oicuun, for doing the impossible by making PWTs fun to fly (and more smashing green dice in the face)

1.) DEATHRAIN, for being one of the most fun things you'll ever fly (but also one of the most difficult)

 

pardon my personal bias, but from what I can gather:

 

  • these abilities are largely dice independent. Apart from Palob's focus plucking, none of them directly manipulate the odds of dice throws.
  • these abilities are largely attack independent. This point extends from the first one, but it bears distinguishing. None of these abilities give half a **** about whether or not the pilot gets to shoot at you; they work regardless. In a way, these abilities are PS independent, except for Deathrain who actively rewards lower PS by dumping Conners on fools before they activate

 

Given the disadvantage of lower PS, having an ability that doesn't require aligning arcs against higher PS pilots may be what distinguishes a powerful low PS pilot from a poorer one. This may also explain the amount of mid-PS support abilities in the rebel arsenal, from Dutch to Kyle to Esege

 

exceptions abound, of course. Vessery's ability hits with disgusting force, and Echo's ability can help her slip around a higher PS ace that doesn't have the same manuevering flexibility as she does.

 

 

 

 

 

might do a bottom five later (spoiler alert: Fel's Wrath is #worst)

No Chewie?  Probably one of the best and it almost always works regardless of the situation.

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Interwebz ate my previous post but here's the highlights:

Mid PS bids mean nothing in the middle of the PS war.

High PS gains information and can take you off the board before it matters plus sweet abilities almost always worth cost; low PS knows it moves first so it gains info and plays the block game all **** day while being very cheap; mid PS might block or might now, might have info or might not, might have an EPT or might not, and are not cheap.

A mid PS ability must be good regardless of opponents PS to shine and almost must have an EPT too or don't bother.

I tend to think the xwing PS system would have been much better served at half what is is: swarms are still PS1, Vader is 5 and the points lost in between are less important. More people might bid to 2-3 without the jump to 5 (VI would have no place in this version, even at half it would be an issue I think).

So we need solid dice independent abilities like Oicuun, Chewie, Biggs, Mux, and Palob who also have EPTs if we ever hope to break the PS War.

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Although Colzet does not have an EPT Rakky, You will find that his PS3 will often times allow him to do so much more than his PS and lack of EPT would lead you to believe.

 

I do firmly believe that at PS3 just eeking out over 'normal' 4 tlt and just below all aces Colzet's ability to shine brighter than most aces.

 

PS 3 allows him to move, and TL first, meaning even if they are out of arc and out of range they can still be effected by his ability.

Granted his ability is reliant on a facedown damage card being dealt to the target, but with the Advent of AHM, and (i cant think of the name of the mine) that can do this, and shooting at PS3 i find more often this abuility is triggerable.. If he DID have an EPT he would be a prime candidate for Crackshot Further enabling his ability.

 

Granted most non ept having low PS aces are not nearly as good as colzet i believe this is an argument that can be made that not all non-ept'd pilots are shite.... at least not my favorite of pilots :D <3 Colzet5ever

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"Echo" (30)
Stay On Target (2)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 40

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

Because if you cant reach that PS9 cutoff, why bother? A cloaked Echo who knows where the enemy will be can go ANYWHERE. Decloak, recloak, Stay on Target to block soont or Vader so the rest of your list can finish them, or drop into their rear arcs and use your built in HLC.

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"Echo" (30)

Stay On Target (2)

Advanced Sensors (3)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 40

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

Because if you cant reach that PS9 cutoff, why bother? A cloaked Echo who knows where the enemy will be can go ANYWHERE. Decloak, recloak, Stay on Target to block soont or Vader so the rest of your list can finish them, or drop into their rear arcs and use your built in HLC.

 

I'd say that Echo build is too dedicated to out-doing high-PS, to the point where she's pretty suboptimal vs any other matchup. You can keep the AS if you're bothered by high PS ships, but I don't think moving away from Rec Spec is going to help, and there are much better EPTs available than SoT.

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Although Colzet does not have an EPT Rakky, You will find that his PS3 will often times allow him to do so much more than his PS and lack of EPT would lead you to believe.

 

I do firmly believe that at PS3 just eeking out over 'normal' 4 tlt and just below all aces Colzet's ability to shine brighter than most aces.

 

PS 3 allows him to move, and TL first, meaning even if they are out of arc and out of range they can still be effected by his ability.

Granted his ability is reliant on a facedown damage card being dealt to the target, but with the Advent of AHM, and (i cant think of the name of the mine) that can do this, and shooting at PS3 i find more often this abuility is triggerable.. If he DID have an EPT he would be a prime candidate for Crackshot Further enabling his ability.

 

Granted most non ept having low PS aces are not nearly as good as colzet i believe this is an argument that can be made that not all non-ept'd pilots are shite.... at least not my favorite of pilots :D <3 Colzet5ever

I think Colzet and Tarn are great designs and both function pretty well at PS 3. I haven't flown him enough to really feel him out but if I've got the extra points and was taking an AC tempest anyway I always include him. I just don't find myself with those points often enough.

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