Observations and suggestions on a list

[nicholscs73 1]

Wanted to try something more aggressive. Not sure about some of the choices on the shrimps. I figure lock down with A's and send in the Shrimps with one bomber each and the guppy following close behind.

Thoughts? Counters?

400 point (398 of 400 pts)

Flagship: (140 pts)

• Assault Frigate Mark II B(72 pts)
• Admiral Ackbar (38 pts)
• Intel Officer (7 pts)
• Sensor Team (5 pts)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5 pts)
• Electronic Counter Measures (7 pts)
• Heavy Turbolaser Turrets (6 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (91 pts)

• MC30c Torpedo Frigate(63 pts)
• Intel Officer (7 pts)
• Ordnance Experts (4 pts)
• Electronic Counter Measures (7 pts)
• SW-7 Ion Batteries (5 pts)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (91 pts)

• MC30c Torpedo Frigate(63 pts)
• Intel Officer (7 pts)
• Ordnance Experts (4 pts)
• Electronic Counter Measures (7 pts)
• SW-7 Ion Batteries (5 pts)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Squadrons (76 of 133 pts):

• 2x Scurgg H-6 Bomber (32 pts)
• 4x A-Wing Squadron (44 pts)

Objectives:

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

Both variants of MC30 have Turbolaser upgrade slots, not ion cannons.

Those ECM's don't do you as much good as you'd think. You have doubles of everything. Sure, sometimes it comes up and saves your ass, but Foreskin is way better for 1 more point. If you're taking heavy fire more than maybe once, the shrimp is already doomed. Not to say it's never going to be useful, but Foreskin is always good.

Drop in Turbolaser Reroute Circuits in place of those SW-7's to maximize Ackbar's dice on the shrimp. It's better than SW7 anyway, because you want all the accuracies you can get. You're going for massive-shot kills here, and accuracies are what make that happen.

That's a lot of points sitting on the flagship there. If you haven't played Wave 2 yet, my sense is that when you do you'll find that whales aren't nearly as resilient as they were in Wave 1. They can get one-shotted by an ISD, a close-range VSD-1, a shrimp, etc. Most of the time your whale isn't going to be hitting hard enough to force the Intel Officer discard, I'd dump that. Similar with HTT, although that's debatable.

Falling asleep, so that's it fur me. Hope that was constructive.

[Squark 2,539]

Uh, Ardaedhel? Autocorrect did a real number on your post, there.

 

The real lesson of Gencon and worlds seems to have been more ships>upgrades.

 

I'd cut things down so you could add a CR 90. Here's what I would do;

 

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 381/400

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
-  Admiral Ackbar  (38  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  (7  points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Ordnance Experts  (4  points)
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  (5  points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)
-  Ordnance Experts  (4  points)
-  Assault Proton Torpedoes  (5  points)

Cr90 Corvette A (44 points)

2 Scurrg H-6 Bombers ( 32 points)
4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)

 

With 19 points left, I'd probably add Foresight to one of the Torpedo Frigates and give the Whale Gunnery Team/Xi7 Turbolasers and Boosted Comms. Alternatively, you could cut the Assault Proton Torpedoes and add an additional AF2, which might be the best option, honestly.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Squark

[Overdawg 349]

Uh, Ardaedhel? Autocorrect did a real number on your post, there.

 

The real lesson of Gencon and worlds seems to have been more ships>upgrades.

 

I do think that depending on your ships and commander that you can go slim on the upgrades but doesnt make more ships > upgrades especially in wave 2.  For instance in the build above if you add XI7s and with Intel Officer you will put guaranteed damage on ships.  The build at Gencon made sense because of the available points and the fact that Ackbar wasnt available.   For the build above I will agree that he could trim the fat a bit but some of the upgrades in wave 2 are just too game changing combined with some in wave 1 to ignore.

 

I would do something like this.

 

Name: (398 of 400 pts)

 

Faction: Rebel Alliance

 

Flagship: (134 pts)

Assault Frigate Mark II B(72 pts)

Admiral Ackbar (38 pts)

Support Officer (4 pts)

Gunnery Team (7 pts)

Electronic Counter Measures (7 pts)

XI7 Turbolasers (6 pts)

 

Fleet Ship 1: (93 pts)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate(63 pts)

Admonition (8 pts)

Intel Officer (7 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Advanced Projectors (6 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

 

Fleet Ship 2: (85 pts)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate(63 pts)

Intel Officer (7 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Advanced Projectors (6 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

 

Squadrons (86 of 134 pts):

3x A-Wing Squadron (33 pts)

1x Scurgg H-6 Bomber (16 pts)

1x Tycho Celchu A-Wing Squadron (16 pts)

1x Havoc - Nym (21 pts)

Edited November 11, 2015 by Overdawg

[Squark 2,539]

I would definately go with Xi7 over advanced projectors on the shr

 

 

Uh, Ardaedhel? Autocorrect did a real number on your post, there.

 

The real lesson of Gencon and worlds seems to have been more ships>upgrades.

 

I do think that depending on your ships and commander that you can go slim on the upgrades but doesnt make more ships > upgrades especially in wave 2.  For instance in the build above if you add XI7s and with Intel Officer you will put guaranteed damage on ships.  The build at Gencon made sense because of the available points and the fact that Ackbar wasnt available.   For the build above I will agree that he could trim the fat a bit but some of the upgrades in wave 2 are just too game changing combined with some in wave 1 to ignore.

 

I have don't entirely disagree with you, but there are two things to consider here;

 

1) While negating defense tokens is powerful, simply overwhelming them with by making too many attacks in one turn for your opponent to cancel works too. The difference is, the latter strategy also provides you with defense in addition to offense by virtue of additional hull and defense tokens. Now, I'm not saying that you should always run naked ships over purchasing upgrades, but if you're spending a quarter of your points on upgrades, it's generally time to consider if you wouldn't get more bang for your buck out of a VSD-1 or AF2A.

 

To put it another way; Those shrimp frigates may get a couple of additional damage in before they die. Is that damage more than what a third shrimp frigate would do, given that means at least one of them is going to survive longer? I'm skeptical, honestly*. Also, I really don't see the point of advanced projectors on Shrimp frigates now that Xi7 turbolasers are absolutely everywhere, especially when Foresight is a thing.

 

 

*Caveat: You should definitely run ordnance experts on any missile frigates. It is crazy efficient.

[Overdawg 349]

I see your point Squark but I really just dont see XI7s that much and if I do its on one ship, two at the most.  The only way you get them is if you buy the Nebulan B expansion pack and lots of imperial players wont buy a ship just for one upgrade.

[Squark 2,539]

I see your point Squark but I really just dont see XI7s that much and if I do its on one ship, two at the most.  The only way you get them is if you buy the Nebulan B expansion pack and lots of imperial players wont buy a ship just for one upgrade.

Okay, that particular point depends on your metagame, I'll grant you. If you're going to regionals or above, expect tons of Xi7s*. If you're playing in a store championship or friendly match, examine your local metagame.

 

That being said, I feel Foresight is going to be superior to advanced projectors- Being able to grab shields off the opposite firing arc is nice, but being able to double up on evades is really nice on the initial approach.

 

 

*Unless FFG sneaks wave III or a special Force Unleashed on us pre-regionals. Then all bets are off

[nicholscs73 1]

Thanks for all the tips. I'm working on retooling the list and have this so far.

Based on your suggestions there are some variations to consider, but I'd like views on objective selection. Also, short of me just saying if like to fly more 'aggressively' (which I've found is foolish against ISDs), how would you guys fly/counter this list?

Thanks in advance!

Assault

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Fire Lanes

Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)

- Jainas Light ( 2 points)

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Foresight ( 8 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)

2 Scurrg H-6 Bombers ( 32 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

[Maturin 1,522]

Rieekan might be a better fit for this list. The Torpedo frigates can't get a shot off at long range so Ackbar isn't great for them. Snd at close/med range it's debatable if Ackbar is better vs. a double arc shot.

Rieekan is cheaper and for the fragile shrimps will really allow you to get aggressive.

[Churry 40]

Rieekan might be a better fit for this list. The Torpedo frigates can't get a shot off at long range so Ackbar isn't great for them. Snd at close/med range it's debatable if Ackbar is better vs. a double arc shot.

Rieekan is cheaper and for the fragile shrimps will really allow you to get aggressive.

I was just thinking the same thing. Ackbar seems to have the best synergy with strategies based around long distance battles. I'm thinking dropping Ackbar, and use Mon Mothma? Those evades will do work even at close range...where those shrimps want to be.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Churry

[nicholscs73 1]

That's a really good point. Those shrimps already pack a good punch, especially if you can double arc. Two extra red dice up close don't matter if you can't survive the trip into close range.

[nicholscs73 1]

Maybe more this....

Assault

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 396/400

Commander: Mon Mothma or Rieken

Assault Objective: Most Wanted

Defense Objective: Fire Lanes or Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

[ flagship ] CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

- Mon Mothma or Rieken ( 30 points)

- Jainas Light ( 2 points)

Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- X-17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Foresight ( 8 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 points)

- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)

2 Scurrg H-6 Bombers ( 32 points)

Edited November 13, 2015 by nicholscs73

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

Rieekan might be a better fit for this list. The Torpedo frigates can't get a shot off at long range so Ackbar isn't great for them. Snd at close/med range it's debatable if Ackbar is better vs. a double arc shot.

Rieekan is cheaper and for the fragile shrimps will really allow you to get aggressive.

I was just thinking the same thing. Ackbar seems to have the best synergy with strategies based around long distance battles. I'm thinking dropping Ackbar, and use Mon Mothma? Those evades will do work even at close range...where those shrimps want to be.

I agree, for this particular list, that Ackbar is probably not the right choice. But I strongly disagree that he doesn't have a place with Torpedo Frigates in general.

The qualifier is, you really have to have a way to make them reliable, which means Turbolaser Reroute Circuits and Home One (which is why I agree he's not right for this list, since it would require completely retooling it). The value of guaranteed brace denial AND +2 guaranteed damage on an already devastating broadside cannot be overstated. And heaven help your opponent if they were foolish enough to choose either your Advanced Gunnery or Hyperspace Assault objectives, both of which can grant you double broadsides of a magnitude unmatched by most ISD front arcs.

[Maturin 1,522]

I agree, for this particular list, that Ackbar is probably not the right choice. But I strongly disagree that he doesn't have a place with Torpedo Frigates in general.

The qualifier is, you really have to have a way to make them reliable, which means Turbolaser Reroute Circuits and Home One (which is why I agree he's not right for this list, since it would require completely retooling it). The value of guaranteed brace denial AND +2 guaranteed damage on an already devastating broadside cannot be overstated. And heaven help your opponent if they were foolish enough to choose either your Advanced Gunnery or Hyperspace Assault objectives, both of which can grant you double broadsides of a magnitude unmatched by most ISD front arcs.

It's a good point - Akbar can help out any ship, of course. What was going through my head though, and that I had left unsaid, is that Rieekan helps guarantee that those fragile shrimps will get their shot off. Or an additional shot that they would otherwise not have been able to make. Again, it's very situational, but consider...two (or four) additional red dice, versus the potential for a whole extra double-arc broadside (five blacks and three blues).

[Churry 40]

Does Turbolaser reroute allow it to spend as many evade tokens for that damage, or max 1? Alternatively, you could just stick an intel officer on your mc30. Using Ackbar is up to how you want to play your shrimp I think. Either you want the 2 extra die, or you try to set up a double arc. 

[Drasnighta 26,573]

The card states:

"While attacking, you may spend 1 Evade defense token to change 1 red die to a face with a Crit icon or 2 Hit icons."

 

 

Rules Reference, Page 5 "Effect use and Timing"

• A “while” effect can be resolved during the specified event and cannot occur again during that instance of the event.

 

 

So only Once.

But you could once on both attacks.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Drasnighta

[Churry 40]

Thanks for the clarification! But ****, double arc with turbo laser reroute and two evade tokens is going to hurt.

[Drasnighta 26,573]

Thanks for the clarification! But ****, double arc with turbo laser reroute and two evade tokens is going to hurt.

 

 

You could do it with a single Evade token, so long as you havn't used it to, y'know, Evade, that turn - and you don't mind it being gone forever afterwards