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Topic Solely Decidated to the Greatest EPT IN THE GAME

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It would be interesting if the mathwing people did a comparitive breakdown of Crackshot, Glitterstim and non disposable upgrades like Outmaneuver and Predator. I don't need to see the numbers to know the permanent upgrades will leave the throw aways well behind over the course of a match.

 

Depends entirely on how long the ship is likely to stay alive, no? It's not like you're going to use Crackshot on your closing ace or anything.

 

Though the effects of Crackshot over PtL/Predator is different anyway, in that it gives you a cheap spike in ability over a more expensive improvement in reliability. This is a much bigger deal for ships with just 2 attack dice over those with 3.

Edited by __underscore__

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Would Predator be a better bet on a ship with 3 red dice?

 

I ask because I'm toying with ways to make Wedge Antilles viable at the moment, and both Crack Shot and Predator seem like perfect matches for his ability.

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Would Predator be a better bet on a ship with 3 red dice?

 

I ask because I'm toying with ways to make Wedge Antilles viable at the moment, and both Crack Shot and Predator seem like perfect matches for his ability.

 

I was asking myself the same thing when it came to Talonbane - in the end I went with Crackshot/Glitterstim simply to get one round of burst damage before he crumbles to dust. If I wasn't aiming for that 5-dice wondershot I'd probably go for Predator, though. Wedge I'd be flying to last the game - Talonbane is quite the opposite.

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I use Stealth Device becuase it often lasts much longer than expected.

Ordinance is a waste of cardboard.

Don't have Glitterstim, or Crackshot for that matter, not having any expansions past wave 5. Lightning reflexes is another throw away ept I don't have or need.

My opinion, remember.

So far I have read no convincing argument for the cards that countenance the loss of squad building points they cost.

It would be interesting if the mathwing people did a comparitive breakdown of Crackshot, Glitterstim and non disposable upgrades like Outmaneuver and Predator. I don't need to see the numbers to know the permanent upgrades will leave the throw aways well behind over the course of a match.

 

 

I do not agree...

 

 

well.. a lot of arguments where made. If you don't agree, that's okay. 

it's just that you say "doesn't work", people tell you -that- it works and how, and you just still say "doesn't work" instead of at least trying/thinking about it. 

 

I see no real point in asking people how to get it to work when you don't want to listen to the answers they give you (they're trying to help you, dude).. and if it's no question but a statement - well.. for many people it DOES work, so there's that.. 

that said: if you don't need your crackshot cards - I'll gladly take them  :D

Edited by WokeUpDead

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Would Predator be a better bet on a ship with 3 red dice?

 

I ask because I'm toying with ways to make Wedge Antilles viable at the moment, and both Crack Shot and Predator seem like perfect matches for his ability.

 

I was asking myself the same thing when it came to Talonbane - in the end I went with Crackshot/Glitterstim simply to get one round of burst damage before he crumbles to dust. If I wasn't aiming for that 5-dice wondershot I'd probably go for Predator, though. Wedge I'd be flying to last the game - Talonbane is quite the opposite.

 

 

Good point. I'll keep Predator on him. I suppose with his ability, he almost has a constant Crack Shot anyway. (-1 Agility on Defending Ships)

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I do not agree...

 

Unless you can provide some reason that Crackshot isn't worth a single point then it seems you came here with your mind made up in advance.

 

Being able to push and early crit through an enemy's defences can win you the game, the ability to strip evade/focus from an opponent *and* keep the crackshot for later use in addition to that is amazing. All for a single point.

Edited by stabbald

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I'm sure it has already been mentioned, but it bears saying again that the real strength of Crack Shot is that you get to use it after the defender has rolled and modified their dice since it happens in the "compare results" step.

 

If you had to declare it when you roll your attack dice it would be garbage, but the fact you can save it until you're certain it'll work makes it fantastic for a single point.

 

It's worth more than that on the psychological effect alone - psyching your opponent out on whether or not they need to burn tokens.

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I can see that it fills a niche for low PS ships with 2 attack dice like the Black Squadron Tie.

 

Personally I would use Calculation or Draw Their Fire for 1 point for the consistent usage of the ability.

 

It's effect is no different to one die failing. Accept the damage or ship loss and move on, against a now ept less ship.

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To me it would be a one off buff to the dice when presented in a game. No different to them rolling one extra hit. The satisfaction is knowing that it is now used and gone while my upgrades are continuing to perform their role turn after turn.

It is different from rolling one extra hit. Specifically at the extremes.

If your three attack dice roll 2 hits, and you use crack shot, to pass a damage through, it seems the same as rolling those three hits to begin with. And here, maybe your predator reroll got you the third hit. In this situation, they are the same. But let's say you rolled 3 hits on 3 dice - you cannot possibly roll 4 hits. They roll 3 evades. Crack shot removes one, and a damage goes through.

Outmaneuver also has a continual game effect, but it is turned on and off through maneuvering, and there is no guarantee that it will effect the damage result, if I am not spending focus, it's only a -3/8ths evade when it goes off... Maybe you removed a blank result, maybe not.

Crack shot is more akin to 1 guaranteed damage when used. One damage for 1 point is pretty good. Hits are more like possible damage. Further, being able to choose when to push a damage through is something predator cannot do. You have no control over when predator gives you extra damage. It can happen when the opponent gets an extra evade, or not. Predator may be a consistent attack buff, but it's still prone to luck - crack shot is a perfect information tool - with a continual benefit.

As long as I have crack shot, you have to make a choice when defending, do you need to spend a token to protect at +1 evade result? Or do you risk the 1 damage crack shot gives. If you spend the token, I don't need to spend crack shot. If you don't, I can still save crack shot. when I do use crack shot, I lose that benefit, but it's usually because I needed to force an extra damage through, likely for a crit or a kill shot.

Also, What good is a 3 point upgrade on a ship that never goes off? Let's say you take 4 shots with predator, and get 4 rerolls, hit hit blank eye. Let's say you were unable to spend focus on the eye, and the defender matched one of your extra hits with an extra evade. Your upgrade got 1 damage through before you lost the ship. I did the same at a 2 point advantage with crack shot.

Can predator ought weigh crack shot? Certainly. Will it? Depends on targeting priority and game circumstance. Start keeping tack of how often your upgrade procs, and when it mattered, and I think you'll be surprised to see some abilities upgrades can contribute much less than you may expect.

Finally, some ships/ builds may not need or want an expensive continual ept. Consider Guri. Predator can be useless on her. If I am in good position, I can get free focus, and take TL as my action. Or maybe I have FCS, and can reroll without predator. Crack shot saves points for elsewhere, while stacking with her offensive potential.

Edited by Ravncat

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The whole point of most upgrades and actions in this game is to move away from utter randomness and force luck to favor you. Following your train of thought, Target Locks and Focus actions don't make any sense because they are no different than just rolling better.

Crackshot is no more and no less than a wildcard in your sleeve. You have it there for those moments that luck fails you. With the added benefit that Crackshot actually does work for longer than a single use. Every time your opponent rolls just enough evades to cancel all your hits, the threat of Crackshot will make him spend unnecessary tokens to "overevade" for the fear of you deciding to use Crackshot. That works every round until you actually decide to use it. This can lead to extra damage being dealt to that target by other friendly ships because those tokens weren't there later when they were needed.

So the presence of Crackshot can snowball into way more than 1 damage being dealt throughout the whole match.

If it weren't a "discard" upgrade, it would be crazy overpowered.

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I can see that it fills a niche for low PS ships with 2 attack dice like the Black Squadron Tie.

 

Personally I would use Calculation or Draw Their Fire for 1 point for the consistent usage of the ability.

 

It's effect is no different to one die failing. Accept the damage or ship loss and move on, against a now ept less ship.

 

It sounds like you are a player who prefers potential value over likely value, and that's fine, but consistent use does not mean necessarily better over a discard.

 

In the time I've been using crack shot, it's pretty consistently 1pt for 1 pt of damage (it doesn't work all the time but it works very close to 80/90% and sometimes it pushes a crit through, increasing the value) and that's tough to beat with other upgrades.   And, as mentioned above, it requires the spending of tokens above the total defense dice needed to avoid.

 

For predator to have that value, you need Predator to account for three undefended hits since predator is three points.   It's certainly possible, but not on the ships I think are good with crackshot.  They're either not going to consistently live long enough to make that up OR they have other abilities that overlaps with predator (IG 88s with FCS, for example).   There are ships that can make that up with predator for sure, but they tend to be elite, survivable pilots.

 

Calculation is interesting but is far more situational, and I think the fact that you don't see it a lot and it's been out since Wave 6 says enough about that (with the exception of a few pilots with specific crit abilities).    Because of that situational use, I don't think it consistently makes up one point. In general, it's not great on a ship with more than two attack dice, since a decent chance of rolling a second focus means it's not going to get used. It also requires shields to be down and, to make up the value of crack shot, it requires your opponent draw a direct hit or multiple crits that are the value of one damage.  It's also less likely to get through than crack shot.

 

DTF is just a very different card, even if it can allow consistent use, it's really only useful in a couple of different squads.

Edited by AlexW

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Personally I would use Calculation or Draw Their Fire for 1 point for the consistent usage of the ability.

 

The thing about DTF is that you aren't in control of whether that EPT does anything or not. If I burn Howlrunner down by rolling nothing but hits, the DTF you put on your BSP was a wasted point. If the BSP with DTF gets taken out first then DTF might not have been worth the point (it might have been worth it to change targeting priorities).

 

Likewise, you've got no control over the usefulness of Calculation. If the only times you end up modifying a single eyeball in a match are when you are shooting at shields, against the last hull on a ship, or end up missing then Calculation was a waste of a point. 

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Personally I would use Calculation or Draw Their Fire for 1 point for the consistent usage of the ability.

 

The thing about DTF is that you aren't in control of whether that EPT does anything or not. If I burn Howlrunner down by rolling nothing but hits, the DTF you put on your BSP was a wasted point. If the BSP with DTF gets taken out first then DTF might not have been worth the point (it might have been worth it to change targeting priorities).

Another obvious one right now in the current meta is the large presence of TLT's (mostly found on Y-Wings). DTF is entirely useless against those as no crits are generated for you to pull off your ally. Crackshot vs TLT Y-Wings is highly useful as you have the opportunity to eliminate the evade results they are able to roll to burn through those ships quicker. You can effectively turn them into zero agility ships and only spend your Crackshot when they actually roll an evade.

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I flew Crackhead Talonbane (Crackshot Glitterstim) for the first time at a tournament. Every game he dealt 1 additional damage thanks to Crackshot and in half the games it was the kill shot. When it wasn't a kill shot it was in a round I was clearly going to die so an extra damage was really worth it. Talonbane also died in every game but two. I don't think I would fly him any other way after trying it out. It just felt so Scum!!!

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I flew Crackhead Talonbane (Crackshot Glitterstim) for the first time at a tournament. (...). Talonbane also died in every game but two. I don't think I would fly him any other way after trying it out. It just felt so Scum!!!

Wondering what the possible Rage card (Jumpmaster Expansion) will do? Raging Glitterstim pilots :)

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I would imagine comparing Crackshot to Predator would be nearly impossible for Mathwing to do.  For one (I think someone might have mentioned it above), Predator might be permanent, but its variable in usage from game to game.  You might use it 7 times in a long game, or once, or even none.  Then, when you do use it, does it actually help?  What if you roll another blank?  What if you roll an extra hit, but the defender rolls too many evades anyhow?  And its 3 times the price of Crackshot.  Also, people like to decrease the odds of bad things happening in a game of dice.  Predator *might* do that, and cost you 3 points, Crackshot *WILL* do that, and cost you 1 point.  The flip side being if your ship is shot down before using either, you're only out 1 point, not 3.

 

Another point I'd add is that adding an extra hit, which could result in crits etc.  will force your opponent to change the way he flies.  People do not fly ships that are full health the same way they fly ships that have 1 hull left.  If you get the right crit, they cant fly their ship the way the want because certain moves are restricted.  And making your opponent change his gameplan is definitely worth 1 point.

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I would imagine comparing Crackshot to Predator would be nearly impossible for Mathwing to do.  For one (I think someone might have mentioned it above), Predator might be permanent, but its variable in usage from game to game.  You might use it 7 times in a long game, or once, or even none.  Then, when you do use it, does it actually help?  What if you roll another blank?  What if you roll an extra hit, but the defender rolls too many evades anyhow?  And its 3 times the price of Crackshot.  Also, people like to decrease the odds of bad things happening in a game of dice.  Predator *might* do that, and cost you 3 points, Crackshot *WILL* do that, and cost you 1 point.  The flip side being if your ship is shot down before using either, you're only out 1 point, not 3.

 

Another point I'd add is that adding an extra hit, which could result in crits etc.  will force your opponent to change the way he flies.  People do not fly ships that are full health the same way they fly ships that have 1 hull left.  If you get the right crit, they cant fly their ship the way the want because certain moves are restricted.  And making your opponent change his gameplan is definitely worth 1 point.

 

The math can easily model a comparison between Crackshot and Predator.

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Rolling three Red dice gives you an average of roughly 1.5 damage per roll. Predator ups that to an average of roughly 2 damage per roll (ignoring the possibility of re-rolling 2 against PS <= 2 ships).

 

Rolling two Red dice, gives you an average of 1 damage per roll, roughly 1.4 with Predator.

 

Crack Shot, on the other hand, gives you one guaranteed damage. So it's easy to extrapolate how ships with 2 red dice would benefit more from Crack Shot. Similarly, ships you don't expect to live for very long would also benefit more from Crack Shot.

 

e: Crack Shot and Accuracy Corrector would be a really solid choice over Predator, tbh.

Edited by Endman

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