'Move' power on living things

[Daeglan 5,950]

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions. 

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions.

That is cool. I missed that. Thank you. I looked at the downloadable errata a while back, that's it.

As far as damage goes, it makes sense that hitting a Sil 1 object with a Sil 4 object causes 40 points of damage to the Sil 1 object. However, as I mentioned before, why would you cause more damage to say, a rancor, merely because it's larger? If anything, it should be harder to Force slam it effectively. Again, if I can muster enough power to harm a rancor, why can't I call upon that same level of power to paste a few stormtroopers? It simply makes no sense to me.

Finally, people being objects isn't clear. If it were, this would't come up again and again. I'm not arguing the definition, just that it's not the generally accepted wording in an RPG. Honestly, it makes no difference as it's been clarified. I'm debating just to debate.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Alderaan Crumbs

[Daeglan 5,950]

 

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions.

That is cool. I missed that. Thank you. I looked at the downloadable errata a while back, that's it.

As far as damage goes, it makes sense that hitting a Sil 1 object with a Sil 4 object causes 40 points of damage to the Sil 1 object. However, as I mentioned before, why would you cause more damage to say, a rancor, merely because it's larger? If anything, it should be harder to Force slam it effectively. Again, if I can muster enough power to harm a rancor, why can't I call upon that same level of power to paste a few stormtroopers? It simply makes no sense to me.

Finally, people being objects isn't clear. If it were, this would't come up again and again. I'm not arguing the definition, just that it's not the generally accepted wording in an RPG. Honestly, it makes no difference as it's been clarified. I'm debating just to debate.

 

Inertia.

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions.

That is cool. I missed that. Thank you. I looked at the downloadable errata a while back, that's it.

As far as damage goes, it makes sense that hitting a Sil 1 object with a Sil 4 object causes 40 points of damage to the Sil 1 object. However, as I mentioned before, why would you cause more damage to say, a rancor, merely because it's larger? If anything, it should be harder to Force slam it effectively. Again, if I can muster enough power to harm a rancor, why can't I call upon that same level of power to paste a few stormtroopers? It simply makes no sense to me.

Finally, people being objects isn't clear. If it were, this would't come up again and again. I'm not arguing the definition, just that it's not the generally accepted wording in an RPG. Honestly, it makes no difference as it's been clarified. I'm debating just to debate.

Inertia.

Inertia from what? The casual flick of a wrist?

Edited November 19, 2015 by Alderaan Crumbs

[Daeglan 5,950]

 

 

 

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions.

That is cool. I missed that. Thank you. I looked at the downloadable errata a while back, that's it.

As far as damage goes, it makes sense that hitting a Sil 1 object with a Sil 4 object causes 40 points of damage to the Sil 1 object. However, as I mentioned before, why would you cause more damage to say, a rancor, merely because it's larger? If anything, it should be harder to Force slam it effectively. Again, if I can muster enough power to harm a rancor, why can't I call upon that same level of power to paste a few stormtroopers? It simply makes no sense to me.

Finally, people being objects isn't clear. If it were, this would't come up again and again. I'm not arguing the definition, just that it's not the generally accepted wording in an RPG. Honestly, it makes no difference as it's been clarified. I'm debating just to debate.

Inertia.

Inertia from what? The casual flick of a wrist?

 

When you start an object moving at speed. It tends keep moving. The more mass the more it wants to keep moving. So when you hurl a larger object it will tend to want to keep moving. Whatever is in front of it will tend to get squished. 

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions.

That is cool. I missed that. Thank you. I looked at the downloadable errata a while back, that's it.

As far as damage goes, it makes sense that hitting a Sil 1 object with a Sil 4 object causes 40 points of damage to the Sil 1 object. However, as I mentioned before, why would you cause more damage to say, a rancor, merely because it's larger? If anything, it should be harder to Force slam it effectively. Again, if I can muster enough power to harm a rancor, why can't I call upon that same level of power to paste a few stormtroopers? It simply makes no sense to me.

Finally, people being objects isn't clear. If it were, this would't come up again and again. I'm not arguing the definition, just that it's not the generally accepted wording in an RPG. Honestly, it makes no difference as it's been clarified. I'm debating just to debate.

Inertia.

Inertia from what? The casual flick of a wrist?

When you start an object moving at speed. It tends keep moving. The more mass the more it wants to keep moving. So when you hurl a larger object it will tend to want to keep moving. Whatever is in front of it will tend to get squished.

I'm going to allow myself some measure of rudeness and say, "Please, pay attention!" I've mentioned, more than once, that I'm not covering moving objects. Force slam...the use of PURE FORCE ENERGY ALONE...doesn't work in any logical way with the RAW in Move.

Take the IR-F Class Light Frigate; Sil 5, Armor 3, HT 40. By the RAW, you would cause 50 points of damage with a Force slam (again, NOT throwing it or something at it...pure, Force energy). Subtract 30 for the Armor, leaving you with 20 points of damage, causing 2 HT. You have now damaged (if ever so slightly) a frigate with nothing more than a telekinetic slam. It makes no sense. Add in the potential to do things such as throw the Millenium Falcon and Move, as written and with the developer's clarification, is a quagmire compared to the rest of the mechanics.

I love the game and have been a huge supporter of it, however in this regard I feel it falls short. Sure, there's the argument to use common sense, however we've seen many examples of the Force, especially Move, allow for extremely over-the-top actions. Couple that with "Space magic!" and common sense becomes more difficult to apply. I'm fine with the narrative adjudication of dice results as the base mechanics are very solid, but the rules for Move stress that solid base for me.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Alderaan Crumbs

[Jedi Ronin 1,588]

I can see why this doesn't jive with you.  Maybe the best way to think of it is that the Force doesn't operate like normal physics.

And chalk it up to game balance not being in synch with normal physics.

 

Also keep in mind that if you can succeed the Daunting check against the Sil 4 object you're going to have a much greater chance of generating exess Success and Advantage with the Easy check against the Sil 1 Stormtrooper meaning you're doing more damage from the dice pool and are likely to be activating Auto-fire.

[Donovan Morningfire 10,200]

Hell, pretty much the entirety of Star Wars, films included, doesn't operate within the boundaries of normal physics.

 

It's kind of like expecting historical accuracy out of Zack Snyder's 300 film... if it does happen, it's a happy accident

 

Besides, it's the Force, which in-setting is a fairly specific type of magic, and magic in fiction generally tells the laws of physics to sod off.

 

I can see why this doesn't jive with you.  Maybe the best way to think of it is that the Force doesn't operate like normal physics.

And chalk it up to game balance not being in synch with normal physics.

[vilainn6 306]

Alderaan Crumbs, on 19 Nov 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

 

Daeglan, on 19 Nov 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

 

Alderaan Crumbs, on 19 Nov 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

 

Daeglan, on 18 Nov 2015 - 7:17 PM, said:

 

Alderaan Crumbs, on 18 Nov 2015 - 5:29 PM, said:

 

Daeglan, on 18 Nov 2015 - 2:30 PM, said:

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions.

That is cool. I missed that. Thank you. I looked at the downloadable errata a while back, that's it.

As far as damage goes, it makes sense that hitting a Sil 1 object with a Sil 4 object causes 40 points of damage to the Sil 1 object. However, as I mentioned before, why would you cause more damage to say, a rancor, merely because it's larger? If anything, it should be harder to Force slam it effectively. Again, if I can muster enough power to harm a rancor, why can't I call upon that same level of power to paste a few stormtroopers? It simply makes no sense to me.

Finally, people being objects isn't clear. If it were, this would't come up again and again. I'm not arguing the definition, just that it's not the generally accepted wording in an RPG. Honestly, it makes no difference as it's been clarified. I'm debating just to debate.

Inertia.

Inertia from what? The casual flick of a wrist?

When you start an object moving at speed. It tends keep moving. The more mass the more it wants to keep moving. So when you hurl a larger object it will tend to want to keep moving. Whatever is in front of it will tend to get squished.

I'm going to allow myself some measure of rudeness and say, "Please, pay attention!" I've mentioned, more than once, that I'm not covering moving objects. Force slam...the use of PURE FORCE ENERGY ALONE...doesn't work in any logical way with the RAW in Move.

Take the IR-F Class Light Frigate; Sil 5, Armor 3, HT 40. By the RAW, you would cause 50 points of damage with a Force slam (again, NOT throwing it or something at it...pure, Force energy). Subtract 30 for the Armor, leaving you with 20 points of damage, causing 2 HT. You have now damaged (if ever so slightly) a frigate with nothing more than a telekinetic slam. It makes no sense. Add in the potential to do things such as throw the Millenium Falcon and Move, as written and with the developer's clarification, is a quagmire compared to the rest of the mechanics.

I love the game and have been a huge supporter of it, however in this regard I feel it falls short. Sure, there's the argument to use common sense, however we've seen many examples of the Force, especially Move, allow for extremely over-the-top actions. Couple that with "Space magic!" and common sense becomes more difficult to apply. I'm fine with the narrative adjudication of dice results as the base mechanics are very solid, but the rules for Move stress that solid base for me.

 

 

Your definition of force slam (sending wave of energy to harm someone) look more like the unleash power than the move power.

[AshesFall 27]

There are so many issues with the blanket application of move to affect characters, most of them are pointed out in this thread both by me and others. I definitely agree that the developers hand wave solution to use the move power that way smacks of "oh ****, we forgot" and completely ignores all those problems, both thematically and mechanically. The widely disparaged "you can levitate with the move power" ruling just goes to show that the GMs dont always make good decisions. Fortunately, there are house rules to fix problems when that happens. 

 

Mostly, it seems that people argue for some sort of "case by case" judgement on every particular use of the move power as relates to characters in a particular situation. A whole range of mechanically sound uses, given that move can be used on characters, just arent viable. Frankly, the question "why peple want to limit the use of move" in these cases should be self evident, beause it very quickly gets very silly and jars badly with anything thematically seen in the movies, thus affecting suspension of disbelief within the Star Wars framework. 

 

As if that wasnt enough, that level of ambiguity in a power creates player confusion and annoyance. Players will always want to push what can and cant be done with a power, clearer definitions and boundaries are preferred.

 

Vilainn6 did point out a serious flaw with an otherwise elegant solution in the form of bind, immobilization potentially lasting through two target turns really doesnt work thematically either. I hadnt thought of that. So how to avoid the whole 0.2-1.4km (depending on your interpretation of range, a whole other discussion) throw/lift straight up, levitation, or free flight issue, other than a potentially frustrating mire of ambigous case by case rulings?

 

Personally, I went with this;

 

House rule - Change the first "control" upgrade to the following.

 

"The user gains the ability to move objects fast enough...  /.../ ... rules for ranged attacks, including ranged defense and aiming. 

 

The user may also use a "Force push/Pull" to move an engaged target character one range band, inflicting damage equal to the targets silhouette. The user makes a force power check, and rolls rolls discipline opposed by the targets discipline or resilience (whichever is higher) as part of the pool. The check only succeeds if the user can also spend enough (F) to move the target. Note that this is the only way in which the "move" power can be used to affect characters and manifests as a crude and momentary push or pull. As such it cannot be subject to extended duration."

 

If anyone wants to use this house rule, suggested uses of advantage and triumph include spending 4(A) or a triumph to inflict a critical injury (yoda knocking out two imperial guard in one use), or 2(A) to apply the "prone" condition to the target (knockdown!). 

 

This solution has several advantages, such as remaining consistent with the games' general terminology in that "object" refers to non characters, and "targets" generally refers to characters, interchangably with "opponents". It also meshes with the upgrades on the move power, in that the "range" upgrade allows you to use "push/pull" at ever farther ranges, but due to wording (just like with bind) you can never move the target more than one range band. You can still combine with "magnitude" to push/pull several targets at once, in which case you would use the highest discipline/Athletics among the targets as per the opposed roll rules. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by AshesFall

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

Alderaan Crumbs, on 19 Nov 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

 

Daeglan, on 19 Nov 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

 

Alderaan Crumbs, on 19 Nov 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

 

Daeglan, on 18 Nov 2015 - 7:17 PM, said:

 

Alderaan Crumbs, on 18 Nov 2015 - 5:29 PM, said:

 

Daeglan, on 18 Nov 2015 - 2:30 PM, said:

It is even in the first post of the developer answered questions.

That is cool. I missed that. Thank you. I looked at the downloadable errata a while back, that's it.

As far as damage goes, it makes sense that hitting a Sil 1 object with a Sil 4 object causes 40 points of damage to the Sil 1 object. However, as I mentioned before, why would you cause more damage to say, a rancor, merely because it's larger? If anything, it should be harder to Force slam it effectively. Again, if I can muster enough power to harm a rancor, why can't I call upon that same level of power to paste a few stormtroopers? It simply makes no sense to me.

Finally, people being objects isn't clear. If it were, this would't come up again and again. I'm not arguing the definition, just that it's not the generally accepted wording in an RPG. Honestly, it makes no difference as it's been clarified. I'm debating just to debate.

Inertia.

Inertia from what? The casual flick of a wrist?

When you start an object moving at speed. It tends keep moving. The more mass the more it wants to keep moving. So when you hurl a larger object it will tend to want to keep moving. Whatever is in front of it will tend to get squished.

I'm going to allow myself some measure of rudeness and say, "Please, pay attention!" I've mentioned, more than once, that I'm not covering moving objects. Force slam...the use of PURE FORCE ENERGY ALONE...doesn't work in any logical way with the RAW in Move.

Take the IR-F Class Light Frigate; Sil 5, Armor 3, HT 40. By the RAW, you would cause 50 points of damage with a Force slam (again, NOT throwing it or something at it...pure, Force energy). Subtract 30 for the Armor, leaving you with 20 points of damage, causing 2 HT. You have now damaged (if ever so slightly) a frigate with nothing more than a telekinetic slam. It makes no sense. Add in the potential to do things such as throw the Millenium Falcon and Move, as written and with the developer's clarification, is a quagmire compared to the rest of the mechanics.

I love the game and have been a huge supporter of it, however in this regard I feel it falls short. Sure, there's the argument to use common sense, however we've seen many examples of the Force, especially Move, allow for extremely over-the-top actions. Couple that with "Space magic!" and common sense becomes more difficult to apply. I'm fine with the narrative adjudication of dice results as the base mechanics are very solid, but the rules for Move stress that solid base for me.

 

Your definition of force slam (sending wave of energy to harm someone) look more like the unleash power than the move power.

Which is something I'm going to look into more closely. There isn't really an argument against using the Force to, for example, smash a stormtrooper into a wall, unless a person wants to be snide and say said wall is attached to a Sil 10 building, at which point, Darth Vader.

As far as normal physics go, I agree. The Force, hyperdrives, lightsabers, etc....more fantasy than not. However, even in that context the "Do more to bigger" doesn't sit well with me. An example would be doing more damage to a dragon than an orc with a magic missle in D&D. It's a world of magic where normal physics are broken, however there are still certain themes that should remain.

I'm also curious about why they removed the restriction to activating Strength upgrades. Is there any word on that?

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

There are so many issues with the blanket application of move to affect characters, most of them are pointed out in this thread both by me and others. I definitely agree that the developers hand wave solution to use the move power that way smacks of "oh ****, we forgot" and completely ignores all those problems, both thematically and mechanically. The widely disparaged "you can levitate with the move power" ruling just goes to show that the GMs dont always make good decisions. Fortunately, there are house rules to fix problems when that happens.

Mostly, it seems that people argue for some sort of "case by case" judgement on every particular use of the move power as relates to characters in a particular situation. A whole range of mechanically sound uses, given that move can be used on characters, just arent viable. Frankly, the question "why peple want to limit the use of move" in these cases should be self evident, beause it very quickly gets very silly and jars badly with anything thematically seen in the movies, thus affecting suspension of disbelief within the Star Wars framework.

As if that wasnt enough, that level of ambiguity in a power creates player confusion and annoyance. Players will always want to push what can and cant be done with a power, clearer definitions and boundaries are preferred.

Vilainn6 did point out a serious flaw with an otherwise elegant solution in the form of bind, immobilization potentially lasting through two target turns really doesnt work thematically either. I hadnt thought of that. So how to avoid the whole 0.2-1.4km (depending on your interpretation of range, a whole other discussion) throw/lift straight up, levitation, or free flight issue, other than a potentially frustrating mire of ambigous case by case rulings?

Personally, I went with this;

House rule - Change the first "control" upgrade to the following.

"The user gains the ability to move objects fast enough... /.../ ... rules for ranged attacks, including ranged defense and aiming.

The user may also use a "Force push/Pull" to move an engaged target character one range band, inflicting damage equal to the targets silhouette. The user makes a force power check, and rolls rolls discipline opposed by the targets discipline or resilience (whichever is higher) as part of the pool. The check only succeeds if the user can also spend enough (F) to move the target. Note that this is the only way in which the "move" power can be used to affect characters and manifests as a crude and momentary push or pull. As such it cannot be subject to extended duration."

If anyone wants to use this house rule, suggested uses of advantage and triumph include spending 4(A) or a triumph to inflict a critical injury (yoda knocking out two imperial guard in one use), or 2(A) to apply the "prone" condition to the target (knockdown!).

This solution has several advantages, such as remaining consistent with the games' general terminology in that "object" refers to non characters, and "targets" generally refers to characters, interchangably with "opponents". It also meshes with the upgrades on the move power, in that the "range" upgrade allows you to use "push/pull" at ever farther ranges, but due to wording (just like with bind) you can never move the target more than one range band. You can still combine with "magnitude" to push/pull several targets at once, in which case you would use the highest discipline/Athletics among the targets as per the opposed roll rules.

Two things:

1) Excellent post as well as fix, save one bit (see 2). I will try this!

2) I still feel that damage based on the target's Sil is a poor choice. Again, hurting a rancor more than a Jawa just because it's bigger breaks logic too much for me. I'm still toying with alternatives.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Alderaan Crumbs

[AshesFall 27]

Two things:

1) Excellent post as well as fix, save one bit (see 2). I will try this!

2) I still feel that damage based on the target's Sil is a poor choice. Again, hurting a rancor more than a Jawa just because it's bigger breaks logic too much for me. I'm still toying with alternatives.

 

 

 

Thank you!

 

regarding your 2), I somewhat agree. I went with the age old adage of "the bigger they are, the harder they fall", and some sort of principle regarding more FP spent = more damage. 

 

Alternative versions I toyed with (that might well work better), is to either tie damage to FP spent on "damage", 0 being 5, and every additional FP being five more damage. The downside with that is that there really isnt much of a precedent for that kind of structure in the rules, other than a one Fp for one damage sort of deal on bind for example. If you want to keep the actual "damage" of the push/pull low, a one for one could work well. In the movies, a push seldom seems to do much damage, excepting yodas knockdown on the guards (could have been crits with low damage).

 

Another variant, where the actual distance you can move someone doesnt mysteriously change dramatically depending on how far away that character is (moving someone from long to extreme or extreme to long is a whole lot farther than engaged to short after all), is to restrict the power to moving someone from engaged to short range, or from short to engaged. Nothing else. I went with consistency with the base power and simplicity over this stricter interpretation, but it does get a little wonky.

 

Please tell me if you find better variants, and how it works for you!

Edited November 19, 2015 by AshesFall

[Daeglan 5,950]

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Daeglan

[AshesFall 27]

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

 

In this case, the "target of the move power" is the character being thrown, which would make that characters Silhouette the relevant one. Of course, you could always go with some other way to calculate the damage if you want, some options provided above. If you were to use "the item hit" in this sense, it would be... the silhouette of a wall, speeder or something that the thrown character could "hit" when thrown, which I agree doesnt make any sense. 

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

True, one aspect of damage IS based on the object thrown, which it then taken by the object hit. The object being STRUCK takes damage based on the object thrown. For your example, yes, as a wall is attached to a building which is say, Silhouette 5+, I'd have the stormtrooper take his Silhouette in damage. This is, however, unofficial interpretation. It's what is easiest and most logical. I covered this earlier.

Now, If I smash two speeder bikes together, they each take damage from the other's Silhouette. If I hit a Silhouette 1 person with a Silhouette 2 truck, the person takes 20 points of damage and the truck takes 1 (accounting for HT). Soak and Armor apply, of course.

As far as a purely telekinetic attack, I was going to go with the attacker causing their Silhouette in damage (they're essentially hitting an opponent with "themselves"), however I then thought of Yoda and how potent he is. So, the idea of causing 5 damage per Force point might work. The stronger you are in the Force, the more damage you can cause. At first glance it seems balanced by both having to spend the points as well as possibly generating Conflict (per the normal rules). Successes add to damage as normal, the Critical rating is 4 (possibly 5) and Advantage and Triumph can be spend for their usual effects.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Alderaan Crumbs

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

I have to say how much I appreciate these forums. Even when people disagree they don't act like rude children and insult people, for the most part.

[AshesFall 27]

 

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

True, the damage IS based on the object thrown...which it then taken by the object hit. The object being STRUCK takes damage based on the object thrown. For your example, yes, as a wall is attached to a building which is say, Silhouette 5+, I'd have the stormtrooper take his Silhouette in damage. This is, however, unofficial interpretation. It's what is easiest and most logical. I covered this earlier.

Now, If I smash two speeder bikes together, they each take damage from the other's Silhouette. If I hit a Silhouette 1 person with a Silhouette 2 truck, the person takes 20 points of damage and the truck takes 1 (accounting for HT). Soak and Armor apply, of course.

As far as a purely telekinetic attack, I was going to go with the attacker causing their Silhouette in damage (they're essentially hitting an opponent with "themselves"), however I then thought of Yoda and how potent he is. So, the idea of causing 5 damage per Force point might work. The stronger you are in the Force, the more damage you can cause. At first glance seems balanced by both having to spend the points as well as possibly generating Conflict (per the normal rules). Successes add to damage as normal, the Critical rating is 4 (possibly 5) and Advantage and Triumph can be spend for their usual effects.

 

 

This could definitely be the way to go, try it out and tell us what you think!

 

Personally, I'd interpret Yoda's level of badassery as rolling triumphs or lots of advantages due to a massive dice pool, and therefore critting a lot

Edited November 19, 2015 by AshesFall

[Daeglan 5,950]

 

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

True, one aspect of damage IS based on the object thrown, which it then taken by the object hit. The object being STRUCK takes damage based on the object thrown. For your example, yes, as a wall is attached to a building which is say, Silhouette 5+, I'd have the stormtrooper take his Silhouette in damage. This is, however, unofficial interpretation. It's what is easiest and most logical. I covered this earlier.

Now, If I smash two speeder bikes together, they each take damage from the other's Silhouette. If I hit a Silhouette 1 person with a Silhouette 2 truck, the person takes 20 points of damage and the truck takes 1 (accounting for HT). Soak and Armor apply, of course.

As far as a purely telekinetic attack, I was going to go with the attacker causing their Silhouette in damage (they're essentially hitting an opponent with "themselves"), however I then thought of Yoda and how potent he is. So, the idea of causing 5 damage per Force point might work. The stronger you are in the Force, the more damage you can cause. At first glance it seems balanced by both having to spend the points as well as possibly generating Conflict (per the normal rules). Successes add to damage as normal, the Critical rating is 4 (possibly 5) and Advantage and Triumph can be spend for their usual effects.

 

No. damage is based solely on the object being thrown. throw a stormtrooper into a wayfarer and the storm trooper takes 10 damage. and the wayfarer takes 10 damage which is absobered by armor. 

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

True, the damage IS based on the object thrown...which it then taken by the object hit. The object being STRUCK takes damage based on the object thrown. For your example, yes, as a wall is attached to a building which is say, Silhouette 5+, I'd have the stormtrooper take his Silhouette in damage. This is, however, unofficial interpretation. It's what is easiest and most logical. I covered this earlier.

Now, If I smash two speeder bikes together, they each take damage from the other's Silhouette. If I hit a Silhouette 1 person with a Silhouette 2 truck, the person takes 20 points of damage and the truck takes 1 (accounting for HT). Soak and Armor apply, of course.

As far as a purely telekinetic attack, I was going to go with the attacker causing their Silhouette in damage (they're essentially hitting an opponent with "themselves"), however I then thought of Yoda and how potent he is. So, the idea of causing 5 damage per Force point might work. The stronger you are in the Force, the more damage you can cause. At first glance seems balanced by both having to spend the points as well as possibly generating Conflict (per the normal rules). Successes add to damage as normal, the Critical rating is 4 (possibly 5) and Advantage and Triumph can be spend for their usual effects.

 

This could definitely be the way to go, try it out and tell us what you think!

 

Personally, I'd interpret Yoda's level of badassery as rolling triumphs or lots of advantages due to a massive dice pool, and therefore critting a lot

That could work as well. In fact, it's what I might go with if for no other reason than consistency. However let's not use the example of Yoda slamming Palpatine's guards against a wall. I think we all agree that's covered under moving objects as normal and using their Silhouette as the basis for damage when striking a wall.

I'd like to go with Obi-Wan Force slamming droids to the ground in Episode I. If we use Discipline as the damage roll he'd have to had hit with a good amount of damage (I don't remember what stats battldroids have), as well as a successfully initiate auto-fire. That seems perfectly feasible to me. If that happens to be unreasonable, it could just be a flat 10 damage, plus successes. Thoughts?

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

True, one aspect of damage IS based on the object thrown, which is then taken by the object hit. The object being STRUCK takes damage based on the object thrown. For your example, yes, as a wall is attached to a building which is say, Silhouette 5+, I'd have the stormtrooper take his Silhouette in damage. This is, however, unofficial interpretation. It's what is easiest and most logical. I covered this earlier.

Now, If I smash two speeder bikes together, they each take damage from the other's Silhouette. If I hit a Silhouette 1 person with a Silhouette 2 truck, the person takes 20 points of damage and the truck takes 1 (accounting for HT). Soak and Armor apply, of course.

As far as a purely telekinetic attack, I was going to go with the attacker causing their Silhouette in damage (they're essentially hitting an opponent with "themselves"), however I then thought of Yoda and how potent he is. So, the idea of causing 5 damage per Force point might work. The stronger you are in the Force, the more damage you can cause. At first glance it seems balanced by both having to spend the points as well as possibly generating Conflict (per the normal rules). Successes add to damage as normal, the Critical rating is 4 (possibly 5) and Advantage and Triumph can be spend for their usual effects.

No. damage is based solely on the object being thrown. throw a stormtrooper into a wayfarer and the storm trooper takes 10 damage. and the wayfarer takes 10 damage which is absobered by armor.

Edit: We're arguing the same thing. Edited November 19, 2015 by Alderaan Crumbs

[Daeglan 5,950]

 

 

 

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

True, the damage IS based on the object thrown...which it then taken by the object hit. The object being STRUCK takes damage based on the object thrown. For your example, yes, as a wall is attached to a building which is say, Silhouette 5+, I'd have the stormtrooper take his Silhouette in damage. This is, however, unofficial interpretation. It's what is easiest and most logical. I covered this earlier.

Now, If I smash two speeder bikes together, they each take damage from the other's Silhouette. If I hit a Silhouette 1 person with a Silhouette 2 truck, the person takes 20 points of damage and the truck takes 1 (accounting for HT). Soak and Armor apply, of course.

As far as a purely telekinetic attack, I was going to go with the attacker causing their Silhouette in damage (they're essentially hitting an opponent with "themselves"), however I then thought of Yoda and how potent he is. So, the idea of causing 5 damage per Force point might work. The stronger you are in the Force, the more damage you can cause. At first glance seems balanced by both having to spend the points as well as possibly generating Conflict (per the normal rules). Successes add to damage as normal, the Critical rating is 4 (possibly 5) and Advantage and Triumph can be spend for their usual effects.

 

This could definitely be the way to go, try it out and tell us what you think!

 

Personally, I'd interpret Yoda's level of badassery as rolling triumphs or lots of advantages due to a massive dice pool, and therefore critting a lot

That could work as well. In fact, it's what I might go with if for no other reason than consistency. However let's not use the example of Yoda slamming Palpatine's guards against a wall. I think we all agree that's covered under moving objects as normal and using their Silhouette as the basis for damage when striking a wall.

I'd like to go with Obi-Wan Force slamming droids to the ground in Episode I. If we use Discipline as the damage roll he'd have to had hit with a good amount of damage (I don't remember what stats battldroids have), as well as a successfully initiate auto-fire. That seems perfectly feasible to me. If that happens to be unreasonable, it could just be a flat 10 damage, plus successes. Thoughts?

 

Magnitude.

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

I am beginning to think you are missing something. Damage is based on silhouette of the item thrown. Not the item hit. If I throw a stormtroopers against the wall it is 10 dam. As the silhouette of the thrown object is 1. The silhouette of the wall is irrelevent.

Based on the target of the move power. Not target of the hurl attack.

True, the damage IS based on the object thrown...which it then taken by the object hit. The object being STRUCK takes damage based on the object thrown. For your example, yes, as a wall is attached to a building which is say, Silhouette 5+, I'd have the stormtrooper take his Silhouette in damage. This is, however, unofficial interpretation. It's what is easiest and most logical. I covered this earlier.

Now, If I smash two speeder bikes together, they each take damage from the other's Silhouette. If I hit a Silhouette 1 person with a Silhouette 2 truck, the person takes 20 points of damage and the truck takes 1 (accounting for HT). Soak and Armor apply, of course.

As far as a purely telekinetic attack, I was going to go with the attacker causing their Silhouette in damage (they're essentially hitting an opponent with "themselves"), however I then thought of Yoda and how potent he is. So, the idea of causing 5 damage per Force point might work. The stronger you are in the Force, the more damage you can cause. At first glance seems balanced by both having to spend the points as well as possibly generating Conflict (per the normal rules). Successes add to damage as normal, the Critical rating is 4 (possibly 5) and Advantage and Triumph can be spend for their usual effects.

 

This could definitely be the way to go, try it out and tell us what you think!

 

Personally, I'd interpret Yoda's level of badassery as rolling triumphs or lots of advantages due to a massive dice pool, and therefore critting a lot

That could work as well. In fact, it's what I might go with if for no other reason than consistency. However let's not use the example of Yoda slamming Palpatine's guards against a wall. I think we all agree that's covered under moving objects as normal and using their Silhouette as the basis for damage when striking a wall.

I'd like to go with Obi-Wan Force slamming droids to the ground in Episode I. If we use Discipline as the damage roll he'd have to had hit with a good amount of damage (I don't remember what stats battldroids have), as well as a successfully initiate auto-fire. That seems perfectly feasible to me. If that happens to be unreasonable, it could just be a flat 10 damage, plus successes. Thoughts?

Magnitude.

Your point being?

[Daeglan 5,950]

if you use magnitude to allow you to throw 5 minion battledroids and the hurl control upgrade. for 3 force pips you can hurl 5 battledroids into the ground. each taking 10 damage. 

[Alderaan Crumbs 441]

if you use magnitude to allow you to throw 5 minion battledroids and the hurl control upgrade. for 3 force pips you can hurl 5 battledroids into the ground. each taking 10 damage.

We all know this.