Multiple of Identical Crit Cards

[Stasy 2,502]

So I played against myself and ended up with Two Ruptured Engines cards on one of my ships. Does this mean it would trigger two damage every time I moved faster than speed 1?

Neat little occourance in a practice game.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

It would appear so; I can't find anything in the rules that says otherwise.

[Green Knight 9,746]

Yes.

 

AFAIK there was an FFG e-mail reply floating around not too long ago that confirmed this.

[Lyraeus 4,759]

I remember the reply as well. I am pretty sure it had to deal with the crit that lowers your ships last click for moving.

FFG responded that crits do stack.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Its right Here:


https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/191465-confirmed-critical-damage-effects-stack/

 

 

 

The effect example given was reducing Engineering Value - but it was mostly indicitative of "Critical Hits stack"

Edited November 8, 2015 by Drasnighta

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Its right Here:https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/191465-confirmed-critical-damage-effects-stack/

 

 

 

The effect example given was reducing Engineering Value - but it was mostly indicitative of "Critical Hits stack"

Darn I was wrong!

Still, same concept

[Green Knight 9,746]

That's the one I was vaguely recalling.

[Stasy 2,502]

Thank you everyone! I had a feeling this was the case. I didn't get the right search terms to find an answer on my own.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Normally, I would have been quicker - but being Sunday Morning, I went out for Coffee for my Wife after her sleep in, so I missed an opportunity to respond earlier

[Green Knight 9,746]

Normally, I would have been quicker - but being Sunday Morning, I went out for Coffee for my Wife after her sleep in, so I missed an opportunity to respond earlier

 

Han always shoots first... you're a distant second ;-)

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Han can shoot first all he wants...  I don't have my wife complaining on my end.  

[MaverickNZ 591]

Glad I could be of help

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Oddly enough, I dealt a VSD a Power Faliure and then through Precision Strike I flipped his only face down and it was Power Faliure!

Oh! Did we ever find out if we are allowed to look at the face down damage cards?

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Oddly enough, I dealt a VSD a Power Faliure and then through Precision Strike I flipped his only face down and it was Power Faliure!

Oh! Did we ever find out if we are allowed to look at the face down damage cards?

 

I don't think we ever really pursued a question, because the nature of that Objective is to flip a Random face down card anyway, and looking at those face down cards does remove some element of Randomocracy^TM from the Situation.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

While not explicitly stated in the rules, one would think that much of the reasoning behind dealing cards facedown is that their (potential) effects are not known. I mean, technically the RRG doesn't even say the damage deck should be set up facedown, or that you're not allowed to look at the cards in it whenever you like. It's all implicit; as has been pointed out in the past, this is quite clearly a permissive-type ruleset, in that you're only allowed to do what the rulebook tells you to do. So, given that some effects (e.g. Dodonna) grant you permission to look at damage cards, it's not hard to reach the conclusion that you're not allowed to do so otherwise.

 

It's not neatly laid out in black and white, of course, but I can't see how -in practice- one could argue the contrary position while keeping a straight face...

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Dodonna only allows you to look at the cards being dealt. After they were dealt though, they are no longer a part of the damage deck.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

Only a Judge has the Authority to look at a Damage Deck, at least, as per Tournament Rules.  You could infer that you can't look at other times unless told to:


Star Wars Armada, Tournament Rules
Page 6, Damage Cards:


Before shuffling at the start of a game, players may request to examine their opponent’s damage deck to validate its contents. A judge may check damage decks at any time.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Drasnighta

[Lyraeus 4,759]

Only a Judge has the Authority to look at a Damage Deck, at least, as per Tournament Rules.  You could infer that you can't look at other times unless told to:

Star Wars Armada, Tournament RulesPage 6, Damage Cards:

Before shuffling at the start of a game, players may request to examine their opponent’s damage deck to validate its contents. A judge may check damage decks at any time.

That is perfect for a damage deck but what reason can we as players not have a general idea of the risk assessment we put our ships in.

So in my game yesterday, I had an Assault Frigate with5 damage cards on it and we were in the squadron phase of turn 6. My opponent had a Firespray that had the chance of rolling a hit to flip over a damage card (he did roll the hit), if my ship had a Structural Damage card on it there was a 1 in 3 chance of my ship going boom. Is it unfair of me to know prior if that is a situation I want to put my ship in?

Now, FFG has a bunch of games where hidden information is only hidden by 1 player. Netrunner is an example where face down cards can still be examined by their owner. So I am not sure why this is a bad thing.

[Drasnighta 26,832]

 

Now, FFG has a bunch of games where hidden information is only hidden by 1 player. Netrunner is an example where face down cards can still be examined by their owner. So I am not sure why this is a bad thing.

 

 

That part is irrelevant to the discussion, as it is not Star Wars Armada.  As such, I'm sure there is a rule written in Netrunner to that very effect.

I can come up with a couple of fluff based reasons why...  But essentially, No, you don't know JUST how badly your ship is effed up..  Decks and sections are on Fire, you as the captain - or fleet admiral - has a bit of a disconnect there, you're going to have to send damage control teams in, but there's only so much they can do in combat...  What if the structural damage is deep in a section they can't get at (in the next 10 seconds)...

 

You're not supposed to know.

The assumption is that Damage Cards are explicitly face down, and unknown, until they are face up and known.  

 

I will call it an assumption, because there is no hard and fast rule on it.  Because there does not have to be a hard and fast rule.

 

THe game involves Dice.  A certain amount of gambling is inherent.  Embrace it, don't avoid it.

 

 

 

 

In Summary.

I believe Damage Cards are supposed to be Face Down and Unknown to both players.  

This is inferred by the fact that Decks are Shuffled...  That Any card sleeves they are put in have to be unmarked, unaltered and identical...  

 

There are similar rules, telling you when you can, for example, Look at Command Dials.  Command Dials are hidden to the Enemy, but not to you, even though they are face down.

 

Nothing, apart from very specific rules tell you when a card goes face up, and therefore, known.

 

Even in the case of Dodonna, the unused, untaken cards are discarded as to not mess with the randomness of future draws.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Drasnighta

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

Dodonna only allows you to look at the cards being dealt. After they were dealt though, they are no longer a part of the damage deck.

 

Sure. The point is, there isn't a rule explicitly stating "you can't look at a damage deck", much like there isn't rule stating "you can't look at facedown damage cards after they have been dealt". Both can only be inferred from context. More importantly, however, players don't have permission to look at them, either, and the exception-based, permissive-type  rules structure strongly suggests that said lack of permission amounts to an implied prohibition.

 

That has no bearing on whether or not it would be "nice" or "fair" to be able to look at them. Yes, looking at them would give you useful information. But you don't have permission to do it. I don't think it would be a "bad thing" for it to be allowed, I simply think it isn't allowed.

 

In fact, if we're arguing semantics, there is no doubt whatsoever that it is not "allowed", in the sense that there is no rule that allows it. Which isn't quite the same as saying it is "prohibited" (because, again, there is no rule explicitly forbidding it) but, for the reasons already given, I believe it can only be interpreted that way.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

Even under a strict, literal reading of the rules, the cards are dealt facedown to the ship (not to the player). So I suppose you are allowed to look at them - but only if it's a glass table and you crawl under it.

[Stasy 2,502]

Even under a strict, literal reading of the rules, the cards are dealt facedown to the ship (not to the player). So I suppose you are allowed to look at them - but only if it's a glass table and you crawl under it.

I snorted out loud while laughing at work at this. Just a thank you.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Stasy

[Lyraeus 4,759]

You mean the ship that you own and play? So sure they belong to the ship as much as they belong to you.

Go on, go quote the rules you are strictly reading. Since quoting is your big thing DA, indulge me.

[DiabloAzul 2,636]

Learn to Play, p.15, Ship Damage:

 

 If he does not have any shields remaining, he instead draws one card from the damage deck and places it facedown near his ship card.

 

Learn to Play, p.16, Attack Example:

 

The Victory II-class suffers the remaining 2 points of damage on the ship’s hull. The Imperial player draws a faceup damage card for the first point of damage because the Rebel player rolled at least 1 E icon; he immediately resolves the effect on that card. Then he draws a facedown damage card for the second point of damage. He places both cards next to the Victory II-class’ ship card.

 

And, for completeness:

 

Learn to Play, p.23, Complete Setup:

 

 Each player places his ships, squadrons, and cards next to the play area and near his edge. 

 

 

Note the absence of "...looks at the card(s) and then..." in the underlined sentences above.

 

But really, I'd have hoped we would be past the Learn to Play booklet at this stage.

[Sander Walgers 11]

Command dails that have been assigned are facedown until a rule has them revealed (such as activation of a ship). 

 

Damage cards that have been assigned are facedown* until a rule has them revealed.

 

There is a rule specifically stating a player may look at his own facedown command dials.

 

There is no such rule for facedown damage cards.

 

 

The lack of such rule for damage cards but the existing of such a rule for command dials lets me suggest you cannot look at facedown damage cards.

 

*except those that are dealt face-up due to critical or other effects