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mrFlibble801

Is a multi Raider build viable?

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I'm kind of newer to the game but managed to win a Raider and I like it a lot. I was wondering if there was a good way to build a seven or eight ship Raider list at 400 points.

A guy in my area has been using a five ship CR-90 list with Mon Mothma and Enhanced Armament on all his ships at 300 points and I wanted to ramp it up a bit but with Raiders.

Any ideas?

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I would caution against all one ship swarms. I do not see it being as good in wave 2. With amount of dice being thrown the are very one shotable. All you need is six damage to make it threw and boom gone. But don't take that as me saying the raider is bad. It not the cr90 are bad at all I don't think this game has a bad ship. Just saying that swarms may not be as viable in wave 2 imo.

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Mon Mothma is a pretty significant factor to the survivability to that kind of list, while Imperials don't have anything of that kind. I guess the best Commander option would be Darth Vader, as the Evades are going to be less useful once the Raiders get into firing position.

 

Possibly a combination of Tractor Beams and Ozzel might work to try and outmanuever the enemy, but it feels very gimmicky and not likely to work on a large scale.

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The old Pocket Carrier thread theorycrafted running a bunch of Raiders with Expanded Hangars to act as on-the-spot carriers for presumably a mob of TIE Bombers and some Fighters. Could be fun. That's a squadron-based fleet, however.

 

If you want to try going just raw Raiders, you could do all right with enough Expanded Launchers with most commanders (that front arc gets ugly) or just spam Assault Proton Torpedoes or Assault Concussion Missiles with Screed. Up to you.

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I feel the need to also note that I agree with the above two commenters that a one-type-of-ship list is gimmicky and not likely to be consistently competitive. At best it will be fun to play around with now and then and might surprise people in the right(/wrong?) matchups. The advice I gave was coming from the perspective of "so you're dead-set on running a bunch of Raiders and want it to work" rather than "this is the way to make a really good fleet." Just felt I should clarify.

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and here I thought "multi" meant "2" :blink:

 

 

 

best I can imagine of the raider is

 

Raider-1 (expanded launchers)

  • mini-VSD, has the maneuverability to exploit EL and if you want ACMs, use a GSD

Raider-1 (Impetuous/Instigator, Ordnance Experts)

  • general purpose anti-squadron or anti-fighter screen to support bombers; both competent against ships

 

Raider-2 (Overload Pulse)

  • basically requires Skreed; sets up a devastating concentrated offense on an enemy ship

 

I can imagine running two Raider-2s to ensure the OLPs go off, or one EL and one anti-squadron Raider in the same fleet

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Raider-I + Expanded Launchers + Ordnance Experts + Darth Vader (Commander) = Pain

It's a fast, light, fairly inexpensive ship that can brutalize both ships and squadrons in nearly equal measure.

Being able to not just re-roll 4-5 black dice, but re-roll them TWICE makes it an extremely reliable damage platform, and being able to reroll a pair of blues means you have a good chance for at least one accuracy.

Edited by Tvayumat

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Personally, i think it could be really effective.

Corvette swarms are really good,,but take a ton of practice to do well with. It's hard to move your ships in such a way that you can gang up on your opponents ships. I would expect you'd lose a bunch at first until you figured it out. But, if you were practiced at maneuvering, I'd expect your opponents to struggle to counter you for awhile.

The Raider has great close range firepower for its cost, but it's not enough to win fights on its own. If you can get 2-3 Raiders shooting at the same ship, you'd do really well.

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Raider-I + Expanded Launchers + Ordnance Experts + Darth Vader (Commander) = Pain

It's a fast, light, fairly inexpensive ship that can brutalize both ships and squadrons in nearly equal measure.

Being able to not just re-roll 4-5 black dice, but re-roll them TWICE makes it an extremely reliable damage platform, and being able to reroll a pair of blues means you have a good chance for at least one accuracy.

I've run this (minus Darth Vader) and it's brutal. It's easy with Command 1 to Concentrate Fire at an ideal moment and suddenly your innocuous little Raider punches above its weight class.

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Raider-I + Expanded Launchers + Ordnance Experts + Darth Vader (Commander) = Pain

It's a fast, light, fairly inexpensive ship that can brutalize both ships and squadrons in nearly equal measure.

Being able to not just re-roll 4-5 black dice, but re-roll them TWICE makes it an extremely reliable damage platform, and being able to reroll a pair of blues means you have a good chance for at least one accuracy.

I've run this (minus Darth Vader) and it's brutal. It's easy with Command 1 to Concentrate Fire at an ideal moment and suddenly your innocuous little Raider punches above its weight class.

I like this idea a lot I may try to run three or four of these and then two or three Raider I's with overload pulse under Screed instead of Vader to get that crit blue die.

Thanks for the insight everyone, I appreciate the help a lot.

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So after looking it all over and adding up the points this is what I have:

Raider I. x4

Ordnance Experts x4

Expanded Launchers x4

Admiral Screed 240

Raider II x2

Overload Pulse x2

112

Total: 352

I have 48 points left over, any suggestions?

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So after looking it all over and adding up the points this is what I have:

Raider I. x4

Ordnance Experts x4

Expanded Launchers x4

Admiral Screed 240

Raider II x2

Overload Pulse x2

112

Total: 352

I have 48 points left over, any suggestions?

 

Spam firesprays.  That list is not the list of someone who has a limited hobby budget, so why not go for the most direct way to purchase victory?

Edited by D503

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So after looking it all over and adding up the points this is what I have:

Raider I. x4

Ordnance Experts x4

Expanded Launchers x4

Admiral Screed 240

Raider II x2

Overload Pulse x2

112

Total: 352

I have 48 points left over, any suggestions?

I think your math is a bit off here.  The Raider I's with upgrades are 61 points each.  That's 244+26 for Screed putting you at 270.  Then, 2 Raider 2's with upgrades at 56 each puts you at 382.  Only 18 points left to spend.  Not a whole lot available at that.

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So after looking it all over and adding up the points this is what I have:

Raider I. x4

Ordnance Experts x4

Expanded Launchers x4

Admiral Screed 240

Raider II x2

Overload Pulse x2

112

Total: 352

I have 48 points left over, any suggestions?

Honestly, if you're going Screed I would recommend ACMs, as he can reliably proc them.

Use the saved-up points to put Screed into a Demolisher Gladiator.

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So after looking it all over and adding up the points this is what I have:

Raider I. x4

Ordnance Experts x4

Expanded Launchers x4

Admiral Screed 240

Raider II x2

Overload Pulse x2

112

Total: 352

I have 48 points left over, any suggestions?

 

Spam firesprays.  That list is not the list of someone who has a limited hobby budget, so why not go for the most direct way to purchase victory?

I've actually been super tempted by this, Boba Fett, Rhymer, and five Firesprays sounds like pretty good fun.

By the way, I'm not trying to buy a win I just like Spam.....y lists.

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So after looking it all over and adding up the points this is what I have:

Raider I. x4

Ordnance Experts x4

Expanded Launchers x4

Admiral Screed 240

Raider II x2

Overload Pulse x2

112

Total: 352

I have 48 points left over, any suggestions?

Honestly, if you're going Screed I would recommend ACMs, as he can reliably proc them.

Use the saved-up points to put Screed into a Demolisher Gladiator.

 

 

To Snip's point, I would probably recommend ACMs (or APTs) on the Raider Is if you are running Screed. The ACMs would be good if you're planning to max out damage after shooting your target with an overload pulse (exhaust a brace or redirect, or both). Reroll any blanks you get the first time around with Ordnance Experts, then spend any other blanks you get to trigger the hit-crit with Screed. Or, if you're looking for a quick-strike, devastating swarm, APTs will get some nasty crits on even the largest target ship as quickly as possible.

 

Or, in the alternative, you could keep the Expanded Launchers. You won't be using Screed nearly as much (although he's still useful to turn a persistent blank into a hit-crit on another die), which may be a boon in the long run since his ability requires you to cancel a die. His main utility will be to consistently trigger the Overload Pulse on the Raider IIs. Add this to six die coming out of the front of four Raiders, and you can pile the damage up quickly.

 

Or, if you like the Expanded Launchers and are willing to risk Overload not triggering, you could swap Screed for Motti. +1 health per Raider isn't fabulous, but post-evade, it only takes six damage and an accuracy to one-shot a fully-healthy ordinary Raider, so every little bit helps, right?

 

I'd also echo Snip's recommendation that you try to get Demolisher into the list if you can. It's slightly more resilient than a Raider (post-evade, it takes 6-8 damage and two accuracies to one-shot a fully-healthy Glad, depending on the shield facing you attack), but the move-shoot is what you want. If you swap one of the Raiders for Demolisher, that's six ship activations, which is crazy.

 

Or you could take up to six TIE fighters. They don't have much staying power on their own, but if supported by 5-6 Raiders, you could pose a real problem for a Rhymer ball/A-wing swarm. Or you could take five TIE bombers, hand them out to the Raiders like candy, and add an extra black dice when they make their attack run: with Expanded Launchers + CF, that's six blacks and two blues (7.5 expected damage) from the front arc, up to seven blacks and three blues (9.25 expected damage) if you land a double-arc shot. Not too shabby...

Edited by Rythbryt

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I have a list with 6 with assault proton torpedos.  its pure jank and 2 raiders can in theory kill an AF with 2 hull shots, ordance experts and a ram but i need to trade ahead to make it work.  I think in a balanced list, 2 raiders is probably the way ill.  Use them as chasers and to hunt down anything that gets around the fronts of my isd.

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So after looking it all over and adding up the points this is what I have:

Raider I. x4

Ordnance Experts x4

Expanded Launchers x4

Admiral Screed 240

Raider II x2

Overload Pulse x2

112

Total: 352

I have 48 points left over, any suggestions?

One problem, that adds up to 382 I think. 

 

Raider I 44+4+13=61x4=244

Raider II 48+8=56x2=112

Screed=26

Total=382.

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I have a list with 6 with assault proton torpedos.  its pure jank and 2 raiders can in theory kill an AF with 2 hull shots, ordance experts and a ram but i need to trade ahead to make it work.  I think in a balanced list, 2 raiders is probably the way ill.  Use them as chasers and to hunt down anything that gets around the fronts of my isd.

 

 

Crit-centric Raiders aren't as good as you might think with re-rolls.

You really want Screed if you're going to be running a bunch of APT or ACMs.

The Raider just doesn't have enough black OR blue dice to score reliable crits on a single re-roll.

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Crit-centric Raiders aren't as good as you might think with re-rolls.

You really want Screed if you're going to be running a bunch of APT or ACMs.

The Raider just doesn't have enough black OR blue dice to score reliable crits on a single re-roll.

100% agreed. With only 2-3 black dice (3 if Concentrate Fire) it's extremely iffy without Screed. Even with Ordnance Experts it's not really something I'd rely on, given your opportunities to get up close and blast someone will generally be limited to 1-3 attempts per game (obviously less vs. faster ships and if you get destroyed first).

Basically unless you're running Screed I would never deck Raiders out to be crit monsters. If you want those Raiders fighting it out with capital ships, slap some Expanded Launchers on them with Ordnance Experts. It's brute force black dice overload and it brings a smile to my face and a tear to my eye.

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I have a list with 6 with assault proton torpedos.  its pure jank and 2 raiders can in theory kill an AF with 2 hull shots, ordance experts and a ram but i need to trade ahead to make it work.  I think in a balanced list, 2 raiders is probably the way ill.  Use them as chasers and to hunt down anything that gets around the fronts of my isd.

 

 

Crit-centric Raiders aren't as good as you might think with re-rolls.

You really want Screed if you're going to be running a bunch of APT or ACMs.

The Raider just doesn't have enough black OR blue dice to score reliable crits on a single re-roll.

 

 

Screed is the guarantee. Well, mostly... if you Screed to get that elusive crit and your opponent has Mon Mothma, you can still lose the crit even with Screed on an evade reroll (I think I have the timing of those rerolls correct). But absent that contingency, Screed is the guarantee. Vader is a second chance at a reroll (Ordnance Experts is the first reroll, for free), at the cost of an evade token; if you have a CF token banked, you could possibly get a third. One would think one would land at least one hit-crit on up to three selective rerolls... but Screed is the guarantee (well, mostly). :D  If you aren't crit-fishing (i.e., you take Expanded Launchers instead of a crit trigger like ACMs/APTs), Screed is less necessary (though still useful if you have other crit triggers, like Overload Pulse). Motti or Ozzel (or even Tarkin, since you're looking at six ships at that point) are viable alternatives if you go that direction.

 

The larger question I have about the Raider spam isn't so much their damage output (rerollable black dice are going to land hits, especially if you increase the number of dice as has already been suggested), but rather their effective range. CR-90 spam is a thing, in part, because all those corvette As can shoot at targets up to a foot away from any hull zone. A spam of Raider Is is going to need to be much closer to get optimal damage. Against slower targets like Vics and MC-80s, it will be like a pack of wolves closing in (if the Raiders can survive the approach, the target is probably going down). Against faster, more nimble targets that shoot black dice (Glad packs, shrimp... er... whatever shrimp hunt in), everyone wants to be in that brawling range, so it probably comes down to who activates what when. Nimble targets that attack at long range (Corvette swarm, AFIIs, Ackbar-enhanced speed-3 Neb conga line?) may prove difficult to catch for a Raider I swarm (or at least to catch with your black dice). A Raider II swarm has a little more reach, but at that point, you're lacking the raw damage that makes the Raider a serious threat to enemy ships.

Edited by Rythbryt

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Crit-centric Raiders aren't as good as you might think with re-rolls.

You really want Screed if you're going to be running a bunch of APT or ACMs.

The Raider just doesn't have enough black OR blue dice to score reliable crits on a single re-roll.

100% agreed. With only 2-3 black dice (3 if Concentrate Fire) it's extremely iffy without Screed. Even with Ordnance Experts it's not really something I'd rely on, given your opportunities to get up close and blast someone will generally be limited to 1-3 attempts per game (obviously less vs. faster ships and if you get destroyed first).

Basically unless you're running Screed I would never deck Raiders out to be crit monsters. If you want those Raiders fighting it out with capital ships, slap some Expanded Launchers on them with Ordnance Experts. It's brute force black dice overload and it brings a smile to my face and a tear to my eye.

 

The Expanded Launchers Raider really is my new favorite toy.

ZOOOOOOOOM BANG!

Edited by Tvayumat

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The Expanded Launchers Raider really is my new favorite toy.

ZOOOOOOOOM BANG!

Mine too. For all those people who have ever struggled to connect with a VSD-I's full front arc, you will find it simply amazing to land with 5 black dice and 2 blue dice, far superior to a normal VSD-I front arc.

...of course, keeping your corvette structurally sound presents difficulties with this plan but if it was easy, it wouldn't be fun would it?

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So if I'm running the Expanded Launchers Raiders what fleet Admiral would you suggest.

Also, is there a place where I can get just the Expanded Launchers card so I don't have to buy for more Gladiators just for one card.

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