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LordBlades

What's left for Scum post Large Ship MOV nerf?

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Atm BroBots (and it seems to me they are the only Scum list doing so) seem to be doing well, but the MOV nerf will certainly affect them negatively (while leaving stuff like Palpmobile + 2 aces largely unaffected).

Then, is it just me or unless Wave 8 brings some real goodies Scum will be left with no top tier list?

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with the quality of people flying brobots, and the resurgence of swarms, i can very much see Iggy-AB doing quite well in worlds in a post-Large-ship-nerf-world.  I believe scum is going nowhere but up, especially once Zukuss and Boba Crew hit the field(space)

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Even with the modest MOV nerf to Brobots, I'm not seeing them losing potency any time soon.  They have a tremendous number of upgrade options, and I have no doubt that even if mainline builds don't hold up to a dominant meta squad, subtle tweaks will bring them in line.  That and that fact that a player that really knows the ins and outs of their list can still pull a lot of tricks on a player that isn't as familiar with the squad.  The more people assume that Brobots are out of the picture, the more that the really dedicated Brobots players will be facing unprepared opponents.

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Scum suffers mainly from being overshadowed by brobots more than anything

Thug life was taking many a nationals pre-TLT, has the most cried about TLT span thanks to unhingeg, and has the least appreciated pilot in the game in Xizor

Scum is teeming with competitive options, you just have to go beyond brobots and explore a little

Incidentally, stims are legit and crackshot is just heavenly

For Wave 8, the mist hunter, dengar, and torp boat pogosticks are all going to be exceptionally legit

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After taking 50% damage large based ships are now worth half their victory points thereby "nerfing" large ships. It isn't really a nerfing just a slight balance shift.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought MOV was a reference to some movement nerf. If I ever get to a tournament, I'll keep this in mind - not a big fan of two (large) ship builds anyway, so probably won't be a huge deal personally.

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After taking 50% damage large based ships are now worth half their victory points thereby "nerfing" large ships. It isn't really a nerfing just a slight balance shift. I would like all ships to suffer from it though.

Z95 lost 2 shields? Six points for the opposing force.

Ah, "Margin Of Victory" (MOV)

So this discussion is really regarding tournament or other timed matches. In those terms it's making it harder to win by attrition, no more taking out a couple cheap ships and then running the clock and soaking damage. In all it requires large ships to either dodge more, taking less damage, or be more aggressive and take out more enemies.

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Scum suffers mainly from being overshadowed by brobots more than anything

Thug life was taking many a nationals pre-TLT, has the most cried about TLT span thanks to unhingeg, and has the least appreciated pilot in the game in Xizor

Scum is teeming with competitive options, you just have to go beyond brobots and explore a little

Incidentally, stims are legit and crackshot is just heavenly

For Wave 8, the mist hunter, dengar, and torp boat pogosticks are all going to be exceptionally legit

 

Scum is teeming

 

kek.

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Good to see ppl still have faith in Scum :)

 

 

the least appreciated pilot in the game in Xizor
 

 

IMO Xizor has been hit really hard by TLT, as he can't pass on the damage he gets from them. Not talking only about 4xTLT lists, but even 1-2 TLT ships with heavy dice modification (Horton, Kavil, Miranda) will fry Xizor really fast.

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Good to see ppl still have faith in Scum :)

the least appreciated pilot in the game in Xizor

IMO Xizor has been hit really hard by TLT, as he can't pass on the damage he gets from them. Not talking only about 4xTLT lists, but even 1-2 TLT ships with heavy dice modification (Horton, Kavil, Miranda) will fry Xizor really fast.

Who cares? Xizor has thrusters, shoots first, and has enough minions to slay a Y per round

Tlts bypassing his ability does absolutely nothing for how fast he murders them, except force worse shots than the ones they'd have against his minions

Now, if the meta were only TLTs you'd still use Xizor because he eats them alive, but you'd probably use guri instead. Thankfully the meta is not just TLTs and Xizor will continue to get immense use of VI and his ability in other matchups (and even against Horton/Miranda)

If it's only 1 to 2 tlts then congrats, you'll be using his ability

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Good to see ppl still have faith in Scum :)

 

the least appreciated pilot in the game in Xizor

IMO Xizor has been hit really hard by TLT, as he can't pass on the damage he gets from them. Not talking only about 4xTLT lists, but even 1-2 TLT ships with heavy dice modification (Horton, Kavil, Miranda) will fry Xizor really fast.

Who cares? Xizor has thrusters, shoots first, and has enough minions to slay a Y per round

Tlts bypassing his ability does absolutely nothing for how fast he murders them, except force worse shots than the ones they'd have against his minions

Now, if the meta were only TLTs you'd still use Xizor because he eats them alive, but you'd probably use guri instead. Thankfully the meta is not just TLTs and Xizor will continue to get immense use of VI and his ability in other matchups

If it's only 1 to 2 tlts then congrats, you'll be using his ability

 

Xizor fires first, his minions don't.

 

3 dice with thrusters don't fare spectacularly against TLTs (they're good, but don't make you invulnerable, you need 4+ dice and/or Sensor Jammer for that). A TLT with focus (before you bring in other abilities like Horton, Miranda or Kavil) rolls about 2.25 hits (on average). 3 green dice with thrusters is 1.375 evades. This means you will get damaged a bit less than half of the time by TLT attacks (this is consistent with my experience running Brobots against TLTs).

 

Also, Xizor with 5 Z-95s will bring down an Y-wing in one round of shooting less than half of the time, and that is if everyone (Xizor and all z-95s get a shot and have either Target Lock or Focus).

 

My point is that Xizor in post-TLT meta is IMO way worse than Xizor in pre-TLT meta.

Edited by LordBlades

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Taking a damage a bit less than half the time is hardly cause for being "way worse," and that's assuming you bring 5 pirates instead of exploring additional options that this lovely new wave brought you.

 

like the crackshot Blacksun Ace w/stims

 

very lovely little guy that, really blows Ys up before they get to shoot. Takes two rounds, sure, but they'll die before their second shot.

 

 

A more accurate description of the change would be "nigh unkillable ace becomes mortal, maybe", and that's not even counting how well Vipers can duck into doughnut-holes in the late game

Edited by ficklegreendice

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A more accurate description of the change would be "nigh unkillable ace becomes mortal, maybe", and that's not even counting how well Vipers can duck into doughnut-holes in the late game

 

Xizor was never nigh-unkillable. A pain in the butt and annoying as hell to play against for some lists maybe (I know, I've annoyed lots of guys with it), but nowhere nearly as good as you're making it out to be (at tournament level at least). there were IIRC a whole 2 (or maybe 3) Xizor lists in top 8 at regionals the last time I checked.

Edited by LordBlades

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Do you think dropping the Stim from the Ace to upgrade the Z-95s to Soldiers could be worth it?

 

personally, no

 

that stim is one of the most beautiful things ever. The Tl + stim threat w/crackshot keeps aces out of the Blacksun's arc or kills them. against more ships, it's worth its weight in gold in keeping the ace alive (even if it bumps!)

 

 

 

 

A more accurate description of the change would be "nigh unkillable ace becomes mortal, maybe", and that's not even counting how well Vipers can duck into doughnut-holes in the late game

 

Xizor was never nigh-unkillable. A pain in the butt and annoying as hell to play against for some lists maybe (I know, I've annoyed lots of guys with it), but nowhere nearly as good as you're making it out to be (at tournament level at least). there were IIRC a whole 2 (or maybe 3) Xizor lists in top 8 at regionals the last time I checked.

 

 

Regionals were pre-mov change

 

changes which were necessary to vary up the meta, and which are now in full effect

Edited by ficklegreendice

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I'm a big fan of Xizor. I really want him to function as a (workable) Scum ace. I've even had some success at a local tournament with a list centered around him. But I do have worries about his ability to function in a take all comers list. I would like to hear how others have put him into lists either in practice or theory crafting.

 

The list I've run the most frequently is Xizor with Veteran Instincts, Authrusters, Virago, and Fire Control System; 2 Binayre Pirates; and a Trandoshan Slaver with Gunner, Bossk, and Tactician.

 

My list trades the jousting power of the higher number of Zs for the ace stopping power of the Slaver (hard to doge 180 degree arc with the ability to double stress an elusive ace).  However, I think my list would be weak against the dreaded 4 TLT lists (though I've never flown my list against this matchup). It just seems like the TLTs have a good chance to gun down Xizor or the Slaver more quickly than you want (on average dice those lists should be able to take down either of these two in two rounds of concentrated fire, right?).

 

Can Xizor play a part in a list that would be strong against swarms, 4 TLT, aces, and any other pillars/meta I'm forgetting? 

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     I have a question regarding the interaction of the "Hound's Tooth" title with the Current MOV rules. Specifically, that the pilot can end the game with a small base ship, "the Nashta Pup", while his original large base ship is destroyed. In this case does his opponent get full points for the Hound's Tooth, partial points, or no points until the pup is destroyed? and if it's partial points then is it at 6 hull left (half of 12 damage on the Tooth) or is it at 4 hull left (half of the combined 16 damage on the YV-666 and Z-95)? 

     This example traces a rather fine line, but it is a theoretical distinction that could affect the point value of the Scum's heaviest ship in timed matches. It would especially affect whether or not to spend those 6 points on the title or on other upgrades.

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"the Nashta Pup" is worth 1p when alive (&Hounds Tooth destroyed)(From FAQ). Personally I think "the Nashta Pup" got screwed with MOV FAQ. First answer to my mind also would have been ship (original Hounds Tooth) is still worth half points, since its not totally destroyed. And had I been forced to make up a point value for "the Nashta Pup" my answer would have been 12pt (since its the lowest Z-95 value... still low here) or at least 6pt (the card value). 1pt feels more arbitrary than either of those values (and screws "the Nashta Pup" a big time).

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According to the FAQ, your opponent would get full points for the YV-666. The Nashtah Pup is, for the purposes of competitive play, worth 1 MOV. So if they managed to kill all of your list and the Pup, they'd get 101 points.

 

It's a bit weird, but that's the ruling they went for.

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According to the FAQ, your opponent would get full points for the YV-666. The Nashtah Pup is, for the purposes of competitive play, worth 1 MOV. So if they managed to kill all of your list and the Pup, they'd get 101 points.

 

It's a bit weird, but that's the ruling they went for.

 

I would have liked something more along the lines of combining the total hits of both, but I guess if that's the rule...

it basically guarantees that no one will want the title in competitive though, taking the upgrades is more valuable  -_-

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