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Danthrax

FFG issues article legalizing BOTH damage decks

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I would rather have separately sold damage decks than colored bases or dial upgrades.

They should just throw some in the tournament kits and bump the price a bit. People who don't have the right deck for a tournament can pay an extra fiver on their entry fee to get one.

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It's a travesty.

I know all those people that bought the core and didn't want the ships.

 

 

Haha. You and Para keep making us all out to be crybabies. Not sure where that's coming from. I could just as easily call the other side full of cheapskates for not being able to afford $30-40.

 

In reality, I (and probably most) genuinely just think it's a shame that a balanced damage deck is being sacked. Don't you care about balance?

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This is a terrible idea.

 

Why don't they just say you can use the new or old TIE Phantom rules as well? I'm sure that would make some people happy too. In fact, why not make the entire errata optional? After all, you don't want to exclude players that bought ships based on now obsolete rules do you?

 

Weak decision by FFG.

 

I'm not at all convinced by the legitimacy of the complaints made by those that didn't want to buy the new damage deck, there is literally no difference between that and the release of a new edition that every miniatures company releases every few years.

Edited by stabbald

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It's a travesty.

I know all those people that bought the core and didn't want the ships.

 

 

Haha. You and Para keep making us all out to be crybabies. Not sure where that's coming from. I could just as easily call the other side full of cheapskates for not being able to afford $30-40.

 

In reality, I (and probably most) genuinely just think it's a shame that a balanced damage deck is being sacked. Don't you care about balance?

 

Oh because that isn't exactly how people who didn't want to buy the new core were treated right? there is no high ground to be had.

 

Also insulting people for being poor got a few people banned i'd watch that.

 

And i do care about balance but the old deck worked fine for 3 years why all of a sudden is it so utterly unbalanced? sure a few cards are useless against certain builds but the majority are the same.

 

Forcing people to buy the new core was a GW like move that was wrong, i see this as ffg seeing reason.

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Switching damage decks is a terrible idea, too.  Someone can hand me an old damage deck and force to play with some crappy and outdated deck?  I would rather take the new deck for my use.  It's the new freakin' deck!  Why keep the old?

Because it's a damage deck? And it hurts you more to use the new one over the old one, which damages less? Maybe?

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Not sure on your country, but just found one that ships to Australia for $18.  Sure, you have to spend $18, but it's a far cry from the $60 you were going on about.  I say if you can't afford the $18 to play in an official tournament by Jan 1st, then too bad for you.  You have a couple of months to save up for it.

 

Canada. $22 for the deck, $60 for the Core set. And it's not a matter of "can't afford", so much as, as I said, being pleased that I don't have to spend that money, immediately, on ships I don't really care about, simply in order to keep playing the game in a tournament.

 

Is it the end of the world if I have to buy the new set? No, surely not.

Will I probably buy the new Core eventually anyway? Certainly- I said as much in my first post.

Do I want to buy the new Core immediately? Well, no- given that I have a finite amount of money to spend on this hobby, I'd rather pick up other things for my collection first.

Would I pick up a damage deck if it were packaged separately for, say, $10? Probably, yes. I would consider it worth the cost at that price.

 

I suspect- but of course, have no way to prove beyond anecdotes- that there are sufficient people who feel the same way that it was showing an impact on FFG's sales.* I do know that a lot of what drives my personal desire for new fleet elements is seeing them used against me in tournaments, so it's to FFG's benefit to keep people like me going to tournaments. And, as has been pointed out in this thread, the old deck lasted three years and change without being errata'd beyond all recognition- I have to at least consider the possibility that it's not badly broken.

 

 

*8 players at fleet night last night- a great turnout for our small FLGS! 25% were using the new deck, three of the remaining six were volubly frustrated that they'd have to buy the new deck to play in tournaments come January; I was one of the three who expressed no opinion on the matter.

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Hopefully "for the foreseeable future..." Means that they have just decided that they rushed people into the transition, want to give players more time to adjust to the idea of a new deck and will fully transition sometime in the coming year.

 

I think this is the case. Having two core sets in production at the same time means they're going to have to consider accomadating players who only have/bought the old core set so far.

Oh, I forgot to freak out.

 

FFG RUINED THE GAME AGAIN!

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Don't you care about balance?

Balance is overrated.

Anakin Skywalker brought balance to the Force. Look how that turned out.

Well, Anakin bringing balance to the force is kind of what makes Star Wars exist. A bunch of Jedi sitting around in peaceful deliberation doesn't make for a very good story. So, it worked out pretty well (for us) :) Edited by GiraffeandZebra

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Oh because that isn't exactly how people who didn't want to buy the new core were treated right? 

 

That's seriously your justification?

 

 

Also insulting people for being poor got a few people banned i'd watch that.

 
And how was I insulting anyone? I was pointing out that insulting others for reasons that aren't true (i.e. just mad because you didn't want these ships!)  is equivalent to people claiming you aren't able to afford $30. Hence the following words "In reality..." 
 
You missed my point while being a hypocrite. Congrats.
 
And please don't threaten me. You're acting like a child.

 

And i do care about balance but the old deck worked fine for 3 years why all of a sudden is it so utterly unbalanced? sure a few cards are useless against certain builds but the majority are the same.

 

Forcing people to buy the new core was a GW like move that was wrong, i see this as ffg seeing reason.

 

 

Yes, but "the old deck worked fine... sure a few cards are useless" is exactly why the deck is being revised. They might not be the sexiest fixes, but what else really needs rebalancing? Phantom Menace has been dealt with, and TLT is being monitored. 

 

FFG had 3+ years of playtesting and decided to roll out one new deck. In 3 years! They've made an incredible system thus far, and X-wing is balanced because of their design process. I'm 100% positive they know more than you or I, and if they say this new deck was needed - it was.

 

You're right that making us pay for another deck sucks, but cheering for the dissolution of the work FFG put into balancing a core component of the game is pretty narrow-minded and selfish.

 

Edit: Ask yourself this, if the new balanced damage deck were free - would you be for or against it?

Edited by zerotc

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Intersting decision on their part but they still leave the window open to allow a transition to the new deck to take place at a future date and time. I do think that this is a bad decision mainly because it seems like with enough bickering and complaints, any ruling could, in theory, be overturned.

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Oh because that isn't exactly how people who didn't want to buy the new core were treated right?

 

That's seriously your justification?

 

 

Also insulting people for being poor got a few people banned i'd watch that.

 

And how was I insulting anyone? I was pointing out that insulting others for reasons that aren't true (i.e. just mad because you didn't want these ships!)  is equivalent to people claiming you aren't able to afford $30. 

 

You missed my point while being a hypocrite. Congrats.

 

And please don't threaten me. You're acting like a child.

 

And i do care about balance but the old deck worked fine for 3 years why all of a sudden is it so utterly unbalanced? sure a few cards are useless against certain builds but the majority are the same.

 

Forcing people to buy the new core was a GW like move that was wrong, i see this as ffg seeing reason.

 

Yes, but "the old deck worked fine... sure a few cards are useless" is exactly why the deck is being revised. Yes, they are small holes. But let's be honest, the system is so tight already that FFG probably doesn't have much else to fix! So why not fix those holes?

 

FFG had 3+ years of playtesting and decided to roll out a new deck. In 3 years! They've made an incredible system thus far, and X-wing is balanced because of their design process. I'm 100% positive they know more than you or I, and if they say this new deck was needed - it was.

 

You're right that making us pay for another deck sucks, but cheering for the dissolution of the work FFG put into balancing a core component of the game is pretty narrow-minded and selfish.

Skipped the bit where I said there was no high ground that applies to both sides, the pro new deck crowd were quite nasty at times.

I didn't say you'd insulted anyone I pointed out people had got banned over insulting people for being poor and you should be careful about such comments, there was no subtext just advising caution.

There was zero threat, and also zero reason to be lower the tone of the conversation.

You seem intent on finding insult where none was made.

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Here's the thing, the more people that pick up the new core, the more voices will switch over to favor a TFA-only damage deck rule. But as time goes on, you're not likely to see people switch the other direction. To those who say they're probably reverse this yet again, I think (and hope) that is true.

 

I don't get it, though. They gave everyone fair warning. Four months seems like plenty of time to me.

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Here's the thing, the more people that pick up the new core, the more voices will switch over to favor a TFA-only damage deck rule. But as time goes on, you're not likely to see people switch the other direction. To those who say they're probably reverse this yet again, I think (and hope) that is true.

 

I don't get it, though. They gave everyone fair warning. Four months seems like plenty of time to me.

The objection was never using the new deck, it was being forced to buy the new core which quite a few people had zero interest in.

Had they released the new deck on its own there would have been zero protest

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There is also a slight unfair advantage someone running the old deck has because their ships are unaffected by certain crits. If I am running the new deck because it works best with my squad, ALL of its effects still hurt me. They may not be game-ruining hurt, but they still hurt. On the flip-side, someone running a list with the old deck will probably do so simply because he does not care about certain crits. To him, they are just like any other damage card. This effectively puts him at a slight (read SLIGHT) advantage over the person with the new deck. All of one player's crits affect him, most of the other player's crits affect him.

While not really a big deal at local tourneys and friendly games, this is very bad for premier and competitive-level X-Wing. An equal playing field is needed for both players in terms of whether or not crits matter.

Let us also not forget that the lead designer for X-Wing has gone on record saying the old deck was outdated and in need of balance. So now they are saying you can play with an unbalanced deck...

Edited by Nhoj4

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Here's the thing, the more people that pick up the new core, the more voices will switch over to favor a TFA-only damage deck rule. But as time goes on, you're not likely to see people switch the other direction. To those who say they're probably reverse this yet again, I think (and hope) that is true.

 

I don't get it, though. They gave everyone fair warning. Four months seems like plenty of time to me.

The objection was never using the new deck, it was being forced to buy the new core which quite a few people had zero interest in.

Had they released the new deck on its own there would have been zero protest

 

Alright, Hobo, let me be clear and frank with you. I was on your side until I bought the new core, so now I'm just a complainer. I'm a whiner. But when FFG said "jump," I jumped, and I'm a little miffed that other people who didn't jump are doing just fine.

 

But while that is on the surface, I honestly believe that the new deck is better for the game. I agree with you 100% that the proper reaction was not to reverse the ruling but to sell the new deck as Print on Demand. They could have tracked the demand for it and when the requests for the new deck stared dying out (i.e. sales dropped below a certain threshold) then they could have made an announcement that the new deck will be the sole legal deck for tournaments within the next month or two of that announcement.

 

Money is a big deal and FFG wants to do right by their customers. But when the flip rulings that caused people to buy stuff they didn't want, they are just as bad as requiring new stuff in the first place. FFG also really wants a quality, balanced game. The best solution for that is the new damage deck. Until that is the sole standard, the game will still have a hole in it (albeit a relatively small one compared to past effects).

Edited by Budgernaut

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