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Darth Ruin

Armada is completely dead in my meta.

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I'm not sure thats the full reason. Itt certainly was originally, but that doesnt do anything to explain the enormous lag on Wave 2. In fact, it would have been even worse if the Core/Wave 1 had launched at the correct time, and Wave 2 still wasnt out now.

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Thanks for the thoughts everyone. 

 

I'm working on an Endor mega-campaign to get everyone involved in a day event on the lead up to Ep VII, should be epic. 

 

Imperial Assault on the Forest Moon. Armada in the Space Battle. X-Wing in the race to the Death Star core. 

 

Step 1 - Don't sell off the models you'd need to demo/play the game...

 

I'd suggest waiting until wave 2 hits in a couple of weeks and demoing games using Star Destroyers and MC80's, Endor Stylee!

 

I sold them to a new player to get him interested in the game and round out his Imp fleet. 

 

Where do you live in Asia/Pacific?

 

Straits Settlements. Malaysia only just got their Wave 1 last month, apparently. 

 

Is Starwars, let alone wargaming, at all popular in Asia? In any case, the lack of models really puts a damper on Armada. People that are somewhat interested usually go "so there are only 2 imperial ships? And not even an ISD? And its been out how long? Are you sure its still supported?" Hopefully this gets better around wave 3 when we have a bit more diversity, but the incredibly slow release schedule is inexcusable imo. They should not have launched Armada without at least 4 or 5 ships per side available.

 

Star Wars is massive, of course. War-gaming not as much, but there is a community of 100+ X-Wing players so... 

 

 

I live in UK, so no help to you there.

I'm loving X-Wing and getting into the Star Wars RPG.

Now to the topic at hand. My hesitation is the HUGE investment just buying the Starter Box. Compared with X-Wing, there looks to be more cards, tokens and fiddly space taking stuff. As much as I like X-Wing, I am debating getting rid of multiples of the same card. Then there's the costs of the ships themselves.

So that's

1. Cost of the starter (what if I don't like it? What a waste of money)
2. Not enough space for more cards, tokens and ships
3. Cost of the ships

I'm not saying everyone is like me, but this might be part of the problem. That and.....

4. How long we have to wait between releases (irritation I have with X-Wing and RPG books too)


Edit: Star Trek Attack Wing, while still suffering problems 2 and 3, has every ship I want. The rules are said to be almost identical to X-Wing, meaning the brain doesn't need to remember three sets of rules. While I'm unlikely to start Attack Wing, it is in my opinion the more tempting of the fleet games.

 

Buy it from Darksphere at a discount or get a trade on one of the Facebook groups. It's not very hard to get a great deal on an Armada fleet in Britain. 

 

Imperial Star Destroyers!

 

Seriously though, they are the iconic ships that the game NEEDS to hook the interest of "on the fence" players, plus the core game (in my mind) isn't the core set, its the core set, wave one AND wave 2. But it would be rediculous to release all that at the same time, so think of it more that Armada is coming out in November, but we have been lucky to have sneak preview releases of ships over the last 7 months! ;)

 

EDIT: I am in New Zealand, so very much feel the same pain! I also get frustrated by the local community and the dominance that X-Wing has (as much as I like it (and own heaps of it) I think that Armada is a far superior gaming experience) and I know a lot of players are already hooked so much into X-Wing the thought of even trying Armada is scary because they dont want to feel they have wasted money on X-Wing if they find they love Armada better!! (or spend money on a game thats still limited that they could be spending on new X-Wing expansions) The answer to that is that Armada needs to have wave 2, get the iconic ships and expand to be worth the risk.

 

All the X-Wing players here also bought into Armada, but lack of W2 and games has led to X-Wing taking over again. (As well as the new wave.) 

 

 

The release schedule has damaged the game, whether fatally remains to be seen.  The game was released without wave one which was a significant misstep and then this has been compounded by the seemingly eternal wait for wave 2 which arguably brings the most marketable and iconic ships from the IP. 

 

This has certainly been a huge factor. X-Wing had quite a slow launch too, if I remember correctly however...

 

Buy an ISD and keep playing.  Let others use your set.  First hit is free kid.  A full set of available product will help things immensely.

 

So would a firm release date. Or a copy of Massing at Sullust. 

 

Please, I am in New Jersey in the United States, like forty minutes from New York City, and the nearest game I can find is at least an hour away. Ridiculous:(

 

 

On the bright side, you have extremely tanned and muscular gentlemen all over the Shore, or so I hear. 

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Cubanboy, on 29 Oct 2015 - 8:25 PM, said:

Facebook, word of mouth, call/contact the players that played in th past, work out a prize torny when wave 2 releases.

 

 

Oh the LGS is great at tournament support. It's just the lack of pick-up games or even interest in playing casual games that bothers me. 

 

Tranenturm, on 29 Oct 2015 - 9:19 PM, said:

Or do what I do and think long term. Have a child. I started last year with a son, and should hopefully be getting more play group recruits in the future. Yes I know, expensive. But the upside is that it's more socially acceptable to directly address negative behaviors in this type of group. Children do eventually grow up and move out. I've no desire to divorce my wife when the play group breaks up, so I will probably go to adoption to keep numbers up. Either that or move to rural Utah and get a second wife.

 

Seeing as how this usually ends up with hands being chopped off and Sith Lords on pyres, I'll take a lesson from Vader and keep to the Rule of Two, thank you very much.

 

Rocmistro, on 29 Oct 2015 - 9:40 PM, said:

Wow...you guys...this game is only 6 months old!   It's also going to get a Level 9* Bio-Restricted Adrenaline shot as soon as the film is released later this year (as is everything that carries the Star Wars IP).

*This is the most highly restricted and most potent form of adrenaline, in the little meta-narrative I just created, in case you were wondering.

I agree with Lyr....help grow the "meta".   Be the change you want to see (I just threw up a little lot in my mouth)  I highly doubt they were having robust 40k tournaments in 1987.

 

That's what we all hope, really. Everyone has pre-ordered Wave 2.

 

Rocmistro, on 29 Oct 2015 - 9:40 PM, said:

Rocmistro, on 29 Oct 2015 - 9:40 PM, said:

You describe a declining player base at recent tourneys. And then somehow indicate that a tourney kit would have gotten 'massive interest'. On what do you base that theory?

Whom would you expect would have been willing to pay for the tourney kit, and shoulder the loss if, as before, zero folks showed up? The stores that already saw the last few tourneys fall flat? The stores that aren't allowed to sell those tourney items to recoup losses? Why would that store owner think that, suddenly, after 5 straight events with declining (and ultimately, zero, attendance), during which those stores probably lost money, that suddenly dropping $125 on a tourney kit would yield a sudden windfall?

I empathize with your concerns. I also think any store owner who would have made that investment in the face of such data would need their head checked.

Let us hope the attempts to FF to create crew/ambassadors is the right direction for solving this, after what they saw with some Sullust events.

 

 

A tourney kit of Massing at Sullust would have generated massive interest, given the colossal bragging rights of having W2, and reinvigorated the scene with people wanting to play with/against the players who won ships.

Hastatior, on 29 Oct 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

This is why I have taken it on myself to buy a lot of ships for both sides and teach the game to every one of my game playing friends, also reaching out to the local community of stores and players to set up practice games and encourage tournament participation. As soon as a store sees that this game can draw revenue and foot traffic they will stock it and promote it.

Yes the delay to wave 2 has hurt (I mean, they should have been in stores what? 2 months ago?) but that can't be helped. If you love the game and want to keep playing it, you have to do something about it!

 

 

Armada costs less than the core set of 40k, and plenty of people play that.

 

 

Extropia, on 30 Oct 2015 - 12:51 AM, said:

I'm not sure thats the full reason. Itt certainly was originally, but that doesnt do anything to explain the enormous lag on Wave 2. In fact, it would have been even worse if the Core/Wave 1 had launched at the correct time, and Wave 2 still wasnt out now.

 

 

Ironically, W2 was most certainly shipped through our port before reaching Europe / the East Coast of the USA. So it's making a return trip.

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I'm kinda bored flogging 5 different ships, there's only so many combos you can play or practice with, so I've set it aside until wave 2 lands in favor of some Xwing.(just got a bunch of wave 7 stuff recently along with a raider) I don't think Armada will die, its too new right now. Folks are getting tired of waiting for the boats to arrive.

I have dozens of lists with tweaks here and there and have yet to get burned out. So many things to consider. So many people to test them on. . .

Do I take XI7 Turbolasers with my Assault Frigates or do I take something else? What squadrons do I take? Etc, etc, etc

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I'm not sure thats the full reason. Itt certainly was originally, but that doesnt do anything to explain the enormous lag on Wave 2. In fact, it would have been even worse if the Core/Wave 1 had launched at the correct time, and Wave 2 still wasnt out now.

 

I agree, the shipping issue may have caused the delay of Wave 1 somewhat, and maybe that allowed the pre-Wave 1 situation to persist too long, but I think we survived that one. Also, that didn't really last as long as it seemed.

 

I also don't think that the space between Wave 1 and 2 has been all that long. It's only been about 6-7 months. 2 waves a year is about what I would expect.

 

I honestly think that we may be setting our expectations too high. That's understandable given our enthusiasm. Building a game community simply takes a while.

 

I don't doubt that this is even harder outside of the United States, and harder still outside Canada and Europe. I'm sure Asmodée is going to help FFG reach deeper into Europe, but more reach into the Asia-Pacific region is probably going to have to come from the demand side, rather than the supply.

 

 

Ironically, W2 was most certainly shipped through our port before reaching Europe / the East Coast of the USA. So it's making a return trip.

 

Okay, now I'm intrigued. Where the hell are you?

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I'm kinda bored flogging 5 different ships, there's only so many combos you can play or practice with, so I've set it aside until wave 2 lands in favor of some Xwing.(just got a bunch of wave 7 stuff recently along with a raider) I don't think Armada will die, its too new right now. Folks are getting tired of waiting for the boats to arrive.

I have dozens of lists with tweaks here and there and have yet to get burned out. So many things to consider. So many people to test them on. . .

Do I take XI7 Turbolasers with my Assault Frigates or do I take something else? What squadrons do I take? Etc, etc, etc

 

Don't get me wrong , We love our  Armada, and I do what you do quite alot.(tweeking and such).maybe alittle break and a new episode of IFF will help keep the Armada fire burning brightly.  Luckily all the Lads in our Old guys league are Xwing players too.... :)

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FFG really screwed themselves on this one, but Wave 2 hopefully will garner a lot more interest. I hope it's not too late to save in certain places!

 

It wasn't ffg... it was the docks situation. 

 

The core by itself turned off quite a few people.  Wave 1 was supposed to release at the same time, but thanks to the glorious dock workers union, wave 1 was delayed. 

 

I saw quite a few people who were playing the core, stop because the core alone wasn't enough to encourage more play.  So by the time wave 1 did arrive, these people have pretty much stuffed armada.  I have tried to get these people to play since then, but they never are interested.  The effect of the delay of wave 1 and now with wave 2 being delayed was too much of a snowball effect and so armada didn't see play time (around here) until I got my copy along with wave 1, which was, by then, beyond hope for many who had given up.

 

I've played it most weekends since I got it, but it's mostly been me and another guy who play.  We have demoed and we even saw a couple guys pick it up, but they never came back to play again (even though I shared when we played which is basically all day saturday).

Edited by Reiryc

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I'm kinda bored flogging 5 different ships, there's only so many combos you can play or practice with, so I've set it aside until wave 2 lands in favor of some Xwing.(just got a bunch of wave 7 stuff recently along with a raider) I don't think Armada will die, its too new right now. Folks are getting tired of waiting for the boats to arrive.

I have dozens of lists with tweaks here and there and have yet to get burned out. So many things to consider. So many people to test them on. . .

Do I take XI7 Turbolasers with my Assault Frigates or do I take something else? What squadrons do I take? Etc, etc, etc

 

Don't get me wrong , We love our  Armada, and I do what you do quite alot.(tweeking and such).maybe alittle break and a new episode of IFF will help keep the Armada fire burning brightly.  Luckily all the Lads in our Old guys league are Xwing players too.... :)

 

Only reason I am getting into X-Wing is for the Ghost. 

 

Yes I know. That is how it starts. . . 

 

Armada is my true love. It is a game I am always excited about. . . 

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Yea, people's expectations that FFG needs to speed up feels wrong to me. I feel that the pace that Armada is going at is good. It allows people to test things out.

The real problem comes from how well balanced this game is. This causes issues where people try to find a dominant army/list. This leads to people using lists that others have made (especially in the US) and that influencing people perceptions.

I think I will show this Friday at my league where I will try a GenCon Special

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Sounds like the Endor Campaign you're brewing is most certainly in the right direction. When WM/H was flagging here I put together a small escalation league to keep interest up, and I think that sort of thing can keep a game afloat. Losing out on Sullust hurts a lot, I know that breathed a little life back into the game in my region, but it's also calmed down a bit since. Mostly I feel for Imperial players who have very limited options what with two ships to choose from to make their lists.

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Sounds like the Endor Campaign you're brewing is most certainly in the right direction. When WM/H was flagging here I put together a small escalation league to keep interest up, and I think that sort of thing can keep a game afloat. Losing out on Sullust hurts a lot, I know that breathed a little life back into the game in my region, but it's also calmed down a bit since. Mostly I feel for Imperial players who have very limited options what with two ships to choose from to make their lists.

You should have them talk to Mikael Hasselstein. His 2 ships seem to always be different and doing new things. . .

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It's gotten pretty much to the dead point in my game group here in WA state. The delay between Core and Wave 1 didn't help, but the delayed Wave 2 has more or less killed the game here. No doubt we'll have a get together to try Wave 2 once the ships release, but other than that....just really tough to draw new folks into a game that seems to be endlessly delayed.

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It's gotten pretty much to the dead point in my game group here in WA state. The delay between Core and Wave 1 didn't help, but the delayed Wave 2 has more or less killed the game here. No doubt we'll have a get together to try Wave 2 once the ships release, but other than that....just really tough to draw new folks into a game that seems to be endlessly delayed.

Then spice up your meta.

I keep seeing people who stop playing and it baffles my mind. I have going in 60+ games (closer to 70 now I think. . . Hmmm) and I have still to hit a limit.

Have all those who stopped playing won all the prizes for kits?

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It's gotten pretty much to the dead point in my game group here in WA state. The delay between Core and Wave 1 didn't help, but the delayed Wave 2 has more or less killed the game here. No doubt we'll have a get together to try Wave 2 once the ships release, but other than that....just really tough to draw new folks into a game that seems to be endlessly delayed.

It doesn't help that every time the issue has been brought up FFG apologists go on the defensive and defend them.  I still remember when wave 1 was delayed, all the apologists started chiming in about "how it will be so nice that they only have to wait 2 months for wave 2!" Now those same people are saying its good that its delayed, if they were too close together it would cause issues! Failing to meet EVERY release date for a game, and NOTHING from FFG?  Its almost as though they want it to fail in time for tax season write offs.

 

Any money I had for the July wave 2 release has gone to other things (Battlefront, Warmahordes) if it releases in November, it'll be January before I pick anything up, that is, if they can even be bothered to keep stock of anything (they must like short stocking so it seems like they sell super well.)

Edited by Gadgetron

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It's gotten pretty much to the dead point in my game group here in WA state. The delay between Core and Wave 1 didn't help, but the delayed Wave 2 has more or less killed the game here. No doubt we'll have a get together to try Wave 2 once the ships release, but other than that....just really tough to draw new folks into a game that seems to be endlessly delayed.

 

Hey, if you're willing to make the drive, we'd love to have you join us. There's also a thriving scene in Vancouver, WA just north of the river.

 

Regarding the FFG apologists that Gadgetron mentions, I think I resemble that remark!  Back in April, I did figure that Wave 2 would hit somewhere in August. But despite that, I've certainly not despaired over the delays. It's allowed me to run my narrative a bit more on the schedule that I had hoped for, given that the progression of gameplay has also been slower than I anticipated. I'll leave it to all of you to surmise that that progression has slowed down because of the lack of new-wave-fuel injection, but I think it's because people have been busy over the summer and are only now getting back into the swing of things. (I was away much of the summer and September. Another two regulars also had things going on, etc.)

 

But anyway, I'm quite happy with how things are going. Now, if I could just get a few more people to show up for the tournaments, things would be ideal...

 

...that is, until they start taking the medals. Those medals are still mine, dammit!

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OP lives in Singapore as I do. I think once wave 2 hits we'll see a resurgence in the local Armada scene again. Hopefully the introduction of more ships including the iconic ISD and Home One and a wider variety of upgrades will help Armada see more table time at LGSs, though on the flip side the lack of official tournament support from FFG is a bit worrisome. If we had Massing at Sullust it would've helped boost the local scene a good deal.

 

Many Armada players here are X-wing players too and the latter has a significantly stronger presence in this region and slightly better support from the LGSs so naturally there are more opportunities to get in a game of XWMG, which means you see more people playing the game and that also means more time devoted to it rather then Armada. The competitive scene drives a lot of the popularity of X-wing here but Armada hasn't arrived at that same level yet, as least not widely, and it will take a while before it does. I'm hoping this changes upon the arrival of Wave 2.

One thing I do know for a fact is that Armada isn't dead in Singapore. I have friends in my gaming group still talking about Armada and meeting up for casual games regularly and I would too if it wasn't for my work. At least there's that. Personally I'm looking forward to get in more games of Armada once Wave 2 hits the shelves (and if family and work permits) but the long lull between releases has definitely damaged the Armada scene in Singapore to a degree.

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Arguably the most iconic ship in the movies is the Millennium Falcon, not yet in the game (but this is a game of capital ships, so we'll let that slide!) The most iconic capital ship in the setting, the Star Destroyer, is not yet in the game either (except for those able to make, and win, the very limited and regional tournament...) FFG doesn't yet have in the game the most iconic capital ship in the movies.

 

All they needed to do was release on time (0 for 3 so far!) or take responsibility for the delay (rather than give one sentence hidden in the bottom of an article blaming unknown issues arising!)  They are failing, they have refused to address this failure, and they continue to act oblivious to this failure.

Edited by Gadgetron

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Arguably the most iconic ship in the movies is the Millennium Falcon, not yet in the game (but this is a game of capital ships, so we'll let that slide!) The most iconic capital ship in the setting, the Star Destroyer, is not yet in the game either (except for those able to make, and win, the very limited and regional tournament...) FFG doesn't yet have in the game the most iconic capital ship in the movies.

 

All they needed to do was release on time (0 for 3 so far!) or take responsibility for the delay (rather than give one sentence hidden in the bottom of an article blaming unknown issues arising!)  They are failing, they have refused to address this failure, and they continue to act oblivious to this failure.

 

I do not understand the hostility.  I would rather them get it right then rush things.  No one wants an Attack Wing game here.  What if they found out all the ISD's were painting Green?  You would still rather them just release the wave because 'all' they needed to do is release on time?

 

The game is still great, the wave is still coming...who cares who and why.  They did address it, even if it was not to everyone's satisfaction.

 

There is an easy solution.  Do not play the game and cause yourself the stress.   

 

Life is too short.  

 

Maybe thats easy for me because I won something at Massing at Sullust.  :D

Edited by KAGE13

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Arguably the most iconic ship in the movies is the Millennium Falcon, not yet in the game (but this is a game of capital ships, so we'll let that slide!) The most iconic capital ship in the setting, the Star Destroyer, is not yet in the game either (except for those able to make, and win, the very limited and regional tournament...) FFG doesn't yet have in the game the most iconic capital ship in the movies.

 

All they needed to do was release on time (0 for 3 so far!) or take responsibility for the delay (rather than give one sentence hidden in the bottom of an article blaming unknown issues arising!)  They are failing, they have refused to address this failure, and they continue to act oblivious to this failure.

 

I do not understand the hostility.  I would rather them get it right then rush things.  No one wants an Attack Wing game here.  What if they found out all the ISD's were painting Green?  You would still rather them just release the wave because 'all' they needed to do is release on time?

 

The game is still great, the wave is still coming...who cares who and why.  They did address it, even if it was not to everyone's satisfaction.

 

There is an easy solution.  Do not play the game and cause yourself the stress.   

 

Life is too short.  

 

Maybe thats easy for me because I won something at Massing at Sullust.  :D

 

 

Lol the winning something thing only made it worse for me!!

 

I won the ISD, bought the MC30 off another guy who placed and am waiting for my raider and villains half of the fighters to come from the guy I bought it off on the internet and all I can think of is rounding out my fleets. The missing MC80 is like a festering black hole in my collection and the duplicates I need to try out some lists are like an itch I can't scratch.

 

I agree getting mad at FFG is silly and pointless, but a certain amount of frustration is natural and to be expected. I wonder if FFG will consider doing something cool to mollify players?

 

I mean its been "On the Boat" for like 5 weeks now...

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Arguably the most iconic ship in the movies is the Millennium Falcon, not yet in the game (but this is a game of capital ships, so we'll let that slide!) The most iconic capital ship in the setting, the Star Destroyer, is not yet in the game either (except for those able to make, and win, the very limited and regional tournament...) FFG doesn't yet have in the game the most iconic capital ship in the movies.

 

All they needed to do was release on time (0 for 3 so far!) or take responsibility for the delay (rather than give one sentence hidden in the bottom of an article blaming unknown issues arising!)  They are failing, they have refused to address this failure, and they continue to act oblivious to this failure.

Everything you say is true, except the part about them acting oblivious. Massing at Sullust shows that they are clearly not oblivious or refusing to address their failure to release on schedule. They very pointedly addressed it by noting it the announcement article and pre-releasing product. I understand being frustrated, or even angered (although I feel if you are going to be angry about something, plastic spaceships probably shouldnt be it) by the constant delays, but lets keep our objectivity.

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Given that FFG went ahead and released the frigates and corvettes looking like they did, I doubt they care much for the paintjobs at this point.

Benefit of the doubt, WERE that the case, they needed to be transparent about that. It's not hard, show a picture, with a caption "the product did not meet our standard, delays will occur we apologize and appreciate your patience." Or just something, at least that's something, they gave us nothing...

As for Massing at Sullest. I was not free that weekend (Murphy's law,) and even if I were, the 4 places I knew of that carried Armada had no clue what this event was (so they must not have done much notifying.) My friend eventually found out about 3 in the bay area, I have no clue how many total there were but 2 were 45+ minutes away. However, if I understand right, this was a US exclusive, what about other regions, do they not matter?

Conclusion: FFG has failed Armada up to this point.

Just as a side note, I have stopped playing, I think I've played one game in 3 months, its boring at this point. I just visit now to see if it's finally been released and to vent at FFG for its atrocious treatment of its consumers.

Edited by Gadgetron

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FFG has been fine towards armada.  it jumped to one of the top 5 selling miniature games according to distributor orders in less than a year.  Models are easier to produce than rules.  The models also take longer due to painting, but you can design the physical product and get it printing while you work on game balance and such since cards have less of a lead time.  If you think FFG has failed id hate to see what you think about some of the other game companies out their.

 

FFG actually puts themselves out there pretty hard.  There is a reason a company like Privateer Press plays it close to the chest and waits till 3months out to announce new releases.  They get that stuff happens and its reactions like the ones here that causes them to do so.  I like how FFG handles their games.  Things are made in China and you have a lot issues to contend with.  Whether its union strikes, international politics, pirates, or timing.  we are before the holiday season.  I am sure those docks are jam packed and that is the delay.  the November 20th date sounds too far away personally (mostly hoping its false) but I am sure its correct.

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