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Darkcloak

40k superseded?

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Honestly, I can't imagine Games Workshop lasting much longer. Cutting their losses with gameplay and focusing entirely on miniatures might be a good idea, but even if they did it, I'd expect they'd do it poorly. 3D printing technology could make that obsolete, but with a company as large and entrenched as Games Workshop, 3D printing technology could be used by them to put out miniatures faster and cheaper than anyone else can compete with. The problem I see is the pride of Games Workshop would likely lead them to try to charge as much as they currently do or more for said miniatures, and be out-priced by companies or individuals who actually play to the strengths of the technology.

 

 

It's beginning to look like GW are spending more time on renting out their IPs to digital variations of their products. There are a lot of video games and Apps hitting the stores lately, and with the latest change to the Fantasy tabletop line, I'd say it's a fairly solid indication of where their priorities are headed for the future.

 

 

 

But GW has been a part of my life for 30 years, it's hard to completely cut ties..even if it's just looking at long ago models that will never be painted , but thinking "maybe when I'm bored I will finish that dudes sword".

I need to eBay it, I need the space and the money. But actually letting go...tough it is.

 

 

I still have all my stuff, boxed up and hiding in a top shelf of the shed. Terrain, too... I don't think it's worth anything anymore.

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I've got a lot of 40k stuff that I've accumulated over the last 20 years or so (about 8,000 points of Guard, 5,000 points of Dark Angels, and 3,000 points of Ultramarines), but it's not seen any play in the last year or so despite my fondness for the setting.

 

A lot of that is simply down to how much free time I've got available vs cost - I can spend £25 on a squad for a 40k army, or spend the same money on two ships for X-Wing.  The 40k squad needs assembling and painting (which admittedly takes me longer than is should as I'm a stickler for removing mould lines, and a slow, not particularly talented painter), while the X-Wing ships take exactly the five minutes to open the packaging and pop out the cardboard before they're ready to play.

 

The length of the average game is a big factor as well - you can normally get in two games of X-Wing in the time it takes to play a 1,500 point game of 40k, with less time devoted to set up and take down at the start and end to boot.

 

Now, if 40k was re-released with a revised, balanced and more streamlined rules set, there's a very strong chance that I'd get back into it, but I don't see it being more than a very occasional thing for me as it currently stands, while X-Wing is a "play at least once a week" game currently.

 

Kings of War and Warpath from Mantic both have me quite interested on the rules front as systems to use my GW models with in the meantime.

Edited by Jarval

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I always felt that the 40k lore always felt like a bunch of thirteen year olds trying to out-badass each other, and the models look comically dumb- look at the size of the guns, shoulderpads, heads, all that stuff.

 

Then there's the game- pretty much everyone involved says it's a formality and they're just there to drink or whatever but this rulebook is like a tome and they charge serious money for it.  They call anyone who breaks this paper-mache game "WAAC" or "Cheesy".  It's a terrible community, attached to a game that's all about a model company trying to get you to buy ten troop boxes of everything.

 

I enjoyed Warmahordes as it's more thought out as a game but I got out of it for the prices.

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Am I the only person in these parts who has never player 40k and/or Warhammer?  To be honest, I have only a vague idea of what they are anyway.  The thing that got me hooked on X-Wing (aside from the Star Wars aspect) is that I consider my ships to be mini RPG-type characters.  I can give them skills and gear to suit the goal of the group.

You're not the only one. I still have some warhammer fantasy goblins and skeletons from those I bought for minis for d&d campaigns, but the tabletop game I grew up playing ( not including minis for battles in rpg's) was Battletech. I moved to video games for years, but have come back to tabletop because here you're less likely to have a twelve year old screaming at you about what they did to your mother last night after you destroy something of theirs in the game (let's face it, online gaming has become toxic in some area). I mean, the point of a game is to have a good time, right?

It's been my experience on Xbox Live that it's usually the 12 year olds that are behaved and it's the 18-20 year old dudes that are the problem.

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Posted my thoughts in off topic regarding this.

 

I've played 40K and Fantasy for over a decade... but I haven't played a single game since I picked up X-Wing.  The motivation is just not there any more.

 

The most enjoyable games of 40K I remember playing were at the sub 500 point level.  Skirmish, or 40k in 40 minutes.  Anything above that often became a chore... and games were also decided within a round or two of starting (if not during list building).  Slow, cumbersome, dragged out... it seemed like fun, until I found a game which was much, much better.

 

I have a copy of the latest edition of Space Hulk at home that has never been opened.  I'll likely keep it (as it's a self-contained game with a fairly tidy set of rules), but everything else is going out the door as soon as I get around to it.

 

After all, my GW models are literally just sat there gathering dust, and poppa needs a new Gozanti.

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I am a former (big-time) fantasy player, though at one point I did attempt to start 40k and I have some nicely painted minis to show for it. 

 

I am mostly a gamer, but also a painter - I have zounds of nicely painted miniatures, even some display pieces not for gaming.  

 

In my opinion, Games Workshop MURDERED their systems and their hobby, which at this point is just not very appealing. Coupled with years of abusing their fans (this includes large price increases, purposefuly making imbalanced units to drive sales, lack of FAQ/tournament support) this means that both systems are in a massive decline. Fantasy is pretty much dead after Ao$, 40K is bleeding players left and right. 

 

X-wing is a very nice alternative that has excellent rules, decent balance, a company focused on tournaments, quick games... All positives, really, the only thing that bugged me with X-wing was the PWT meta which is gone now because the company recognized this problem and corrected it. After GW, I would describe my experience with FFG as liberating.  

 

As for the hobby aspect, I've repainted a couple of ships and am in the middle of doing a black/red lambda shuttle. It is also far more satisfying to paint one ship to a really high standard then to have to paint 80 miniatures of the same unit because some clown introduced the "horde" rule to drive sales and this unit is so imbalanced you have to take two for your army to be competitive. 

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X-Wing is MUCH better.

Ready assembled and painted models. More fun rules. Quicker to set up and play. I recently calculated the cost of EVERYTHING I want to buy for X-Wing and it came to 1/4 the cost of a Games Workshop army (including paint, glue, rulebook, codex etc).

That said :( I miss Games Workshop. I like the look of Age of Sigmar, though the rules are odd. I'd love to game in 30K with a Perturabo led Iron Warriors with Imperial Knights and Mechanicus. But my poor bank balance :( I'm not a rich man.

:( Suffering GW withdrawal today :(

Edited by The Shard

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I think the new found willingness of GW to give in s IP out to anyone who wants to make a crap mobile games is an indicator of how bad their financial state really is.

They used to be careful about what got put out but now some real trash is using their ip.

For every total war there's two dozen low quality mobile games, a sign their grabbing as much cash as fast as they can atm to prop up falling sales.

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For everyone that's never had anything to do with Games Workshop, let me give you a taste of that experience.

 

Imagine that GW buys FFG and replaces all FFG policies with their own. This is basically what would happen:

 

- A new ship comes out. It has the same rules as a Tie Interceptor, but  has 4 Attack instead of 3 and costs 12 points.

 

- All prices on ships are increased by 10%

 

- Then GW releases an epic ship which costs 150 dollars. That epic ship contains one copy of a modification card that costs 1 point, and gives you +1 to all stats (attack, agility, hull shields). 

 

- All prices on ships are increased by 10%

 

- No new FAQ documents are released, despite numerous valid questions about the rules.

 

- All prices on ships are increased by 10%

 

- Then a 50 point large ship is released. It has two 4-dice turrets, 30 hull, can perform two boost actions and has the "always shoots first" special rule. 

 

- New "unbound" rules are released, which allow you to mix all faction ships in your squadron.

 

- New squadron building rules are released, which get rid of points and allow you to take any/all ships you own in your squadron. There is a small in-game bonus for the side that has fewer ships (regardless of their actual worh in combat).

 

That's basically the GW experience. Even that last statement, which seems completely bonkers except that's what they just did to Warhammer Fantasy. Beware of that company. 

Edited by LesserEvil

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I feel like you may have missed a few opportunities for price rises there, LesserEvil.

 

"Special Limited Edition" versions of the core set for a start.  Which are limited to 2000 copies worldwide, cost $300 each and come with a hardback version of the rulebook which is mostly pictures of the models (sold separately).

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I've posted my thoughts a number of times now, just like Hobo, Vanor, Gecko etc.

played 1st ed through 7th mainline 40k. Have been playing for 20 years.

Own space crusade, space hulk, mordheim, necromunda etc.

 

X-wing and IA are better. 40K has just gotten to the point where ridiculous would be a compliment. 6th was bad with flyers and heavies, but 7 and invis spam was the straw for me.

 

My favourite era was 1st ed/realms of chaos/3rd ed fantasy/realm of chaos.

2nd ed had it's issues but was fun. 3rd was a needed overhaul that really grew through it's lifecycle leading to 4 and 5. 5 was the last true edition I feel.

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40k was my first miniatures game. I've played a lot of Necromunda as well and now a lot of X-Wing.

 

I enjoy playing 40k with friends but it has problems that X-Wing doesn't have:

 

Time consuming modelling and painting aspect

Unbalanced rules (e.g. we play no-flyers, no super-heavies and always try to use thematic, fluffy lists)

Large table needed

Takes a long time to play

Complicated rules need constant referencing to Rulebook and Codices (every model and weapon has its own special rule, even if that special rule is just a universal special rule with a different name!)

££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

 

I have sold my Eldar, keeping my Dark Angels and Necromunda gangs. I only purchase new Dark Angels Codexes and new character models (I already have the entire 3rd company, around 70 Deathwing terminators and a number of Ravenwing squadrons). I love the 40k universe and I enjoy playing 40k, but I hate Games Workshop.

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Oh I could start ranting about balance.... 40K (actually space crusade) was my gateway drug, and I've always loved the aesthetic (I can't play infinity with infinity models - I use the eisenkern guys to replicate pano).

Edited by DariusAPB

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I was a Warhammer Fantasy player for 13 years.

 

I was getting very burnt out on the game and frustrated with the direction.  Went to a tournament and didn't win a single game for the first day.  That night, I tried X-wing out with the starter kit.  I played 2 generic Ties vs. Luke w/ R2-D2.  I killed Luke in 5 rounds.  I haven't played WHFB since.

 

GW is dead to me.

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Oh I could start ranting about balance.... 40K (actually space crusade) was my gateway drug, and I've always loved the aesthetic (I can't play infinity with infinity models - I use the eisenkern guys to replicate pano).

I started with space crusade as well and heroquest.

Loved the background from that and sought out the main game some time later.

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OHman I forgot about Heroquest. That too. Obviously that too. But really, it was my mom buying me a group of metal LOTD prepainted second hand that got me into the mainline games. Again, the aesthetic.

Edited by DariusAPB

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What put the dampener in my tabletop playing was having kids. 

 

X-Wing, though? That's my way back into tabletop. The kids are old enough for a start, 

 

My son is 14 and while he still plays his Tyranid army, he inherited it from his aunt who quit playing a while ago and has added to it but has an pile of unfinished models he hasn't assembled yet, he is always up for an X-Wing battle.  We have at least one of every ship they have made to date for Rebel and Empire.  He's branched out into Scum now since he has a pile of Rebel stuff.  He's short some of the larger Scum vessels but he's got all the small ones.

 

Gotta say it is really amazing to see your child's reaction when he beats you for the first time for real.  My son gets into it, he's always smack talking.  We get into these arguments about Alderaan vs. the Death Star, which was a legitimate target and which was the act of terrorists.  He'll go off about how destroying Alderaan was evil and I start making excuses and call him a terrorist and decry all the innocent coffee shop workers and janitors who died on the Death Star.  My wife thinks we are both crazy....

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I heard from a X-Wing mate the other day that both GW titles (40K and Fantasy) have dropped out of the Top 5 of most played wargames.  Didn't't surprise me at all.

Haha no

Fantasy has been out of the top 5 for over a year but 40k is still number 1 in sales and number of players by a mile. At least according to all reports which are ibased on distributors and sales numbers.

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 Bit sad when I have to explain who Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are to the kids though... :(

 

My son knew who they were when he was three.  He even knew the Darth Vader breathing sound.  Being an uber geek I was so proud tears came to my eyes.  Big, wet man tears.  There may even have been sniffles.  That I cannot confirm or deny.

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I heard from a X-Wing mate the other day that both GW titles (40K and Fantasy) have dropped out of the Top 5 of most played wargames.  Didn't't surprise me at all.

Haha no

Fantasy has been out of the top 5 for over a year but 40k is still number 1 in sales and number of players by a mile. At least according to all reports which are ibased on distributors and sales numbers.

 

 

Sales numbers?  Like money spent or units moved? 

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Sales numbers?  Like money spent or units moved? 

 

That's the question, isn't it?  When one £40k rulebook (just the rules, no models, no dice etc) costs the same as two X-Wing Core Sets...

 

Is 40K easier or more difficult than X-wing? I assume the latter, which kinda means that X-Wing is more inviting for new players.

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Sales numbers?  Like money spent or units moved? 

 

That's the question, isn't it?  When one £40k rulebook (just the rules, no models, no dice etc) costs the same as two X-Wing Core Sets...

 

Is 40K easier or more difficult than X-wing? I assume the latter, which kinda means that X-Wing is more inviting for new players.

 

Oh it's more complex alright just not in the good way that leads to tight rules.

 

7th ed the edition that made me leave is all random rolls and greatly takes away the importance of skill, you can wipe out 90% of the other army and lose badly because the random objectives all went the other guys way.

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