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Stark464

Does this system support...the Dark Side?

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I played the beginner game with my friends and they loved it, but I have one player who is really determined to a Sith. Like, really determined. He doesn't want to fall to the dark side, he wants to start there. I don't see many problems with this mechanics-wise, but it does mean he has access to dark side powers straight away. Story-wise it may take some work, I said he could be a dark Jedi, or someone who is force sensative and is pretty much a mean guy, but no, he wants to be Sith. With a capital S.

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It's possible. Per the rules, you can start at 29 morality which is just over the dark side cap. But you could let him start at anything you like if it fits your campaign.

 

My GM has also removed the cost of using dark side points in terms of strain etc among other house rules to make the dark side far more tempting. They work really well. Really gives a big bonus, but comes at a high cost. We are all Jedi afterall in our campaign.  I hit paragon of the Light Side last session. But the others are slowly but surely slipping into darkness.

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I played the beginner game with my friends and they loved it, but I have one player who is really determined to a Sith. Like, really determined. He doesn't want to fall to the dark side, he wants to start there. I don't see many problems with this mechanics-wise, but it does mean he has access to dark side powers straight away. Story-wise it may take some work, I said he could be a dark Jedi, or someone who is force sensative and is pretty much a mean guy, but no, he wants to be Sith. With a capital S.

Well, he better find a way to kill Darth Vader then, because there are only two Sith.

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-Dad, I'm going to Paul's house. I'll be here for dinner.

 

-Ok. Who's gonna be there?

 

-You know, all the guys: Paul, Joe, Tom and me. Oh, and this new guy, Exar.

 

-You never told me about him...

 

-Well, he's a nice guy. We totally want to meet him, 'cause he's so cool. You know, he thinks doing anything to get what you want is really shiny. Like, stabbing your friends, or beating your mum. It's a very bright idea, I don't know why it has never occurred to me. You know, dad? Next time I need to pass my maths test, I'm going to choke Mr Marques until he gives me an A+.

 

-Oh, good to see there are still some worthy guys out there. have fun, kids!

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If you start down the Sith path, I wouldn't disallow it - I'd make it really difficult certainly - but I'd make it very risky, as we know from TCW that Sidious notices the return of Maul, which means once someone else starts down this path - not just dark side but more Sithy- Sidious could notice... and send Vader... :ph34r: but perhaps just a few inquisitors first ;):ph34r:

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The expanded universe certainly encourages that the Sith code was just guidelines.

Also, Darth Plagueis does mention in the novel that there were other Sith imitators claiming the Sith title tradition. You could always have your PC being mentored by one of the imitators, a holocron (Classic SW Sith origin), or even Sith spirit. Plenty of prior Sith Lords have been shown to disdain their successors.

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The Rule of Two isn't that silly. It helps to explain an oddity I noticed long ago in the Original Trilogy -- namely, that both Palpatine and Vader seem to want Luke, once turned or as the act of turning, to kill the other instead of just teaming up as a Dark Side Trio. It's like they're just conditioned that that's what you do, even after they run the show and could do whatever they want.

 

Of course, the Rule is not ironclad, since the Sith are essentially expected to enforce it on themselves. The Master almost always trains "backup" apprentices in case the current one doesn't work out, and the Apprentice often takes "secret apprentices" of his own in preparation for the day when he becomes the Master. And there can be Dark Side Adepts, Inquisitors, Hands, and whatever else aplenty. But everyone knows, in the back of their minds, that the title "Dark Lord of the Sith" only belongs to two people at a time, and you pretty much have to kill one of them to get it. Which produces exactly the sort of backstabbing, envy-driven egotists that the Dark Side wants.

 

And if one day you meet a different pair of guys calling themselves the real Dark Lords of the Sith? Again, you'd better kill them just to prove who are the real heirs to Lord Bane's legacy.

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I played the beginner game with my friends and they loved it, but I have one player who is really determined to a Sith.

 

The mechanics certainly support it.  Never mind the rule of 2, Maul broke it with his brother Savage, though he ultimately paid the price.

 

The only real issue is how the player is at the table, and whether the player is simply using it as an excuse to play a murder hobo and/or run roughshod over the other player's wishes.  If it leads to conflict between PCs and everybody is okay with that, then go for it.  If it leads to conflict between players then it's probably not a good idea.

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My questions have always been "What makes a Sith a Sith and not a Dark Jedi?  What's the diff?"

 

Well Sith used to be a race, but now its more of a title. A sith lord or sith apprentice are like the recognised sith, whereas any old darksider may not be worthy, especially in the rule of 2. Only those 2 would learn the best secrets of the Sith, to keep them secret and away from the jedi. They would train others but use them as mere assassins and foot soldiers, not to be more powerful than them. The Sith have a major goal, to take over the galaxy. Dark Jedi are also mostly jedi who use the dark side, but have no association with the Sith Order.

 

Anyway yes, I think having my player as a young arrogant darksider being hunted by the "real" big bad guys might be fun!

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It can be tricky having Light Side and Dark Side Force users in the same group. The main issue arises when some PC's are trying to be good, while others want to be bad. This is a problem because the "Good" PC's need to be constantly trying to stop the "Bad" PC's from doing bad things or else they gain conflict themselves for letting bad things happen. Thus pulling the Light Side PC's slowly towards the Dark Side. This constant intros party clashing leads to the question "Why are these people together?"

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I should mention that it's definitely possible to play a Dark Side User if they are more discreet about it, more cunning. Instead of publicity killing people, sneak into their bedroom at night. Make it subtle so the rest of the Party has no reason to suspect you. Then it can be a lot of fun because of player vs PC knowledge.

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One player working against the others can be very fun. I've done it, and had it done to me in my regular group. If you know the players, get along well with them, it can be great.

 

I've killed other PCs before. And been killed. That can be harder.

 

We had a long running Vampire (old edition) game earlier this year. We started out in the Dark Ages, trying to stop Gehena coming about. But by the time we reached WW1 timeline the group had fractured and I was leading a cell of the True Black Hand, while the rest of group were inferanlists working to bring it about. That was some of the greatest games we have ever played.

 

In the end. We both won. And both lost. The world ended. But one of my True Brujah agents (I was playing multiple characters at this point) went back in time to when it all began and killed the original starting characters in the very first mission. Talk about a paradox.

Edited by Vor

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My questions have always been "What makes a Sith a Sith and not a Dark Jedi?  What's the diff?"

 

The newsletter. Real Sith receive a quarterly newsletter that details what's happening in the Sith movement that others may want to know.

Don't forget the annual Sith Ball and Life-Day parties.

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The rule of two thing was a Darth Bain idea that became general practise until the current era. I think some people misinterpret it to mean only two Sith/Darkside users in the whole of the Galaxy but really means only one Sith Lord and their apprentice. There can be other practitioners of the Dark Side but they can never be trained to be a threat to the two, or the One in the case of Darth Sidious as he believed he would rule forever, or be allowed to alert the Jedi to their presence.


As for a mixed group of Light and Dark, well you're not going to be able to maintain this dynamic for long without the group fracturing. Unless both the Player and the GM are interested in a redemption storyline you're better off just starting a Dark Side game and reverse the Light Side Dark Side Pips.

Also beware of your Players falling into the Dark Side = Psychopath mentality, it's not accurate or playable for very long without your game dissolving into chaos (YMMV). The Sith are brutal and remorseless but they have a plan and goals and do not generally waste energy on useless acts of destruction. Think of them as the ultimate pragmatists with a bit of ultra violence thrown in, those that fall to chaos tend to be only tools of the former.

Edited by FuriousGreg

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Darth Krayt and Luke teamed up fairly well. I think light and dark can team up, it will difficult and there will conflict but that's the fun of these games. It's always interesting to see my players form plans with wildly different tactics and philosophies.

Assuming no one is being a twit at the table, and just trying to annoy everyone.

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Darth Krayt and Luke teamed up fairly well. I think light and dark can team up, it will difficult and there will conflict but that's the fun of these games. It's always interesting to see my players form plans with wildly different tactics and philosophies.

Assuming no one is being a twit at the table, and just trying to annoy everyone.

Short term for sure but a long term campaign... I foresee a great disturbance at the table.

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My questions have always been "What makes a Sith a Sith and not a Dark Jedi? What's the diff?"

To legitimately attempt to answer your question, think of it in the following way. For my example please note I am actually in the Navy.

In general and in broad terms I belong to the US military (force sensitives). Specifically I am part of the Navy (Sith), as opposed to the Army (Jedi), Marines (Knights of Ren), Air Force (Nightsisters). What sets me apart from the others is my conduct, my philosophies, my goals, and my overall method to accomplish the job. Another service might have similar views, the Coast Guard (Imperial Knights), but in the end there are still enough differences that we aren't the same.

A Dark Jedi might want to rule the galaxy and abolish the Jedi, but his motivations and tactics will most likely be very different to the actual agenda and efforts of the Sith.

Not sure if that helps, hope it does.

Edited by General Zod

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Darth Krayt and Luke teamed up fairly well. I think light and dark can team up, it will difficult and there will conflict but that's the fun of these games. It's always interesting to see my players form plans with wildly different tactics and philosophies.

Assuming no one is being a twit at the table, and just trying to annoy everyone.

Short term for sure but a long term campaign... I foresee a great disturbance at the table.

That will all depend on the group :) but I don't disagree with your predictions.

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Yes, the Rule of Two. It was amazing how many actual Sith threw themselves on their lightsabers just to get it started. My campaign will feature a group of real Sith that did not get that memo, and think that Sidious has gotten too big for his robes.

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Unless both the Player and the GM are interested in a redemption storyline you're better off just starting a Dark Side game and reverse the Light Side Dark Side Pips.

Just curious why you would reverse the LS DS mechanics. RAW a Dark Sider suffers conflict for using DS pips and Strain for using LS pips. So if they want to stay dark they don't care about using DS, but if they want Redemption it becomes a very hard choice of suffer strain every time you use a LSPip or slowing your redemption by using a DSP.

To me it's a fantastic balance of choices.

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