If I blank out on attack and my opponent removes his ship anyways, am I cheating for keeping my mouth shut?

[Darth Emphatic 148]

I play on Vassal since I have no local LGS so there are some vassal customs that don't have a counterpart IRL. Now technically rolling defense die is not optional but it seems common sense not to roll defense die if no hits are rolled or gotten via focus or gotten by an ability. Is it the practice IRL not to roll defense die if someone whiffs the attack roll? It seems like if someone is rolling defense die they think there are hits that can be cancelled. Once your opponent starts going for his green die it seems like you have time to realize he misread your roll.

I always roll defense die even if there is no hit. It might be with a wink and a nod, but I do it.

[markcsoul 2,135]

Yes it's cheating on my book.

I had a somewhat similar thing happen to me on vassal awhile back. My opponent had an ace that appeared to just narrowly miss flying over an asteroid. After getting his actions he gave me a devastating attack that possibly decided the game early.

After he had won he admitted he cheated and knew his ace actually went over the rock earlier but lied about it.

[BigBounty 26]

I play on Vassal since I have no local LGS so there are some vassal customs that don't have a counterpart IRL. Now technically rolling defense die is not optional but it seems common sense not to roll defense die if no hits are rolled or gotten via focus or gotten by an ability. Is it the practice IRL not to roll defense die if someone whiffs the attack roll? It seems like if someone is rolling defense die they think there are hits that can be cancelled. Once your opponent starts going for his green die it seems like you have time to realize he misread your roll.

 

This.

If you rolled blanks/focus, had no focus token & had no other modifiers to change anything at all....why would you the opponent even need to roll defence if you had 0% chance of damage!?!? Long before he removed his ship, you could have infact spoken up at more than 1 stage

 

1. I have 0 hits & no modifiers

2. Why are you rolling defence dice?

3. Its doesn't matter that you fluffed that D roll, I had 0 hits in the first place

4. Opp - "Are you sure?"  You "Yeah no hits" 

5. Why are you removing your ship?

6. You shouldn't have removed that ship, I had 0 hits ages ago

7.  Opp - "Are you sure?"  You "Yeah no hits"

 

Instead you let him do it, then you could of kept it to yourself had your "awesome end game win" & moved on, but you do the "right thing" & tell him after the game & probably make him feel silly... smooth move

[Vorpal Sword 14,685]

Does anyone have an email address from someone on the design team to get a definitive answer? I asked a well regarded top player in my area and he doesn't think it's cheating. I'm not sure either way.

What answer are you expecting? It's obviously against the rules, and you've known that since it happened. (Check the subsection on "Compare Results": you're supposed to pair off and cancel dice results.)

The question is whether you were responsible for notifying your opponent of the fact that he was mistaken about your roll. And I don't see how the answer can come out as "no": it wasn't an error in judgment or a missed opportunity, but rather an error of fact. You misled your opponent about the game state in order to gain an advantage. How can you think that's anything but cheating?

Edited October 25, 2015 by Vorpal Sword

[Slugrage 5,011]

Yup. Ultra lame. Honestly, I'd never want to play against you. Ever.

[Parravon 5,217]

Ditto!

[StevenO 2,996]

Although some may cite a "missed opportunity" when you purposefully forget to take a Stress token when shooting at a Rebel Captive and your opponent did not remind you immediately that is really a case of cheating as you are ignoring a mandatory game effect.  The example in this topic goes far beyond that that to the point I'm not even sure an unreasonable person would see it as anything but cheating.

 

Now you may have been able to turn this into a win via underhanded, but probably legal, methods.  If he thinks he is supposed to remove his ship after you tell him otherwise call a TO over to make the ruling.  What happens now?  He probably gets straightened out and play resumes but he could be cited for stalling or some other infraction by his own failure to follow the rules correctly.  If this gets him beat then it's on him as you were playing completely above board.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

I predict the next Para thread will be titled "Is it cheating if I show up to an event with a custom range ruler that is longer then normal?" And his reasoning will be that well if his opponent notices it he can always ask to use it himself as well.

Edited October 25, 2015 by ScottieATF

[DraconPyrothayan 6,107]

I predict the next Para thread will be titled "Is it cheating if I show up to an event with a custom range ruler that is longer then normal?" And his reasoning will be that we'll if his opponent notices it he can always ask to use it himself as well.

I have seen someone actually take an Iron to the cardboard ones and get a full extra inch out of it.

[Frostweasel 215]

It's definitely cheating, the rules were broken/misinterpreted and you knew it. Yet it was advantageous for you to keep your mouth shut so you did. Can you honestly say that if a rule misinterpretation wasn't in your favour you would have kept quiet too? Of course not, so it's cheating.

[Parravon 5,217]

I predict the next Para thread will be titled "Is it cheating if I show up to an event with a custom range ruler that is longer then normal?" And his reasoning will be that we'll if his opponent notices it he can always ask to use it himself as well.

I have seen someone actually take an Iron to the cardboard ones and get a full extra inch out of it.

You can borrow my elastic range ruler if you like.

[Stoneface 3,750]

Your action, or in this case, inaction was just WRONG.

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

Does anyone have an email address from someone on the design team to get a definitive answer? I asked a well regarded top player in my area and he doesn't think it's cheating. I'm not sure either way.

What answer are you expecting? It's obviously against the rules, and you've known that since it happened. (Check the subsection on "Compare Results": you're supposed to pair off and cancel dice results.)

The question is whether you were responsible for notifying your opponent of the fact that he was mistaken about your roll. And I don't see how the answer can come out as "no": it wasn't an error in judgment or a missed opportunity, but rather an error of fact. You misled your opponent about the game state in order to gain an advantage. How can you think that's anything but cheating?

I'm half expecting an answer like I received from the well regarded top player in my area.

Because I did not mislead my opponent, he misled himself.

He's the one that originally did the thing that was not allowed.

Edited October 25, 2015 by ParaGoomba Slayer

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

But you KNEW it happened. It's not like you both realised after the game or something. As it happened you knew it was wrong and you still kept quiet.

 

I think at this point you've realised everyone is against you and will just fight instead of admitting fault. Which in itself shows your attitude.

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

Opponent does something wrong.

I notice that he did something wrong but say nothing.

It's not clear enough for me. My opponent broke the rules just as much if not more than I did with my inaction.

I'm kind of used to everyone being against me with my phantom hatred pre-nerf, so that's really irrelevant to me. Basically I see everyone that's against me in this thread as one post, and the top player in my area as another. 1 - 1.

Edited October 25, 2015 by ParaGoomba Slayer

[LemonheadPrime 88]

I notice that he did something wrong but say nothing.

 

How can you not see this is cheating?

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

I notice that he did something wrong but say nothing.

How can you not see this is cheating?

Because he's the one that originally broke the rules.

I half agree with you guys, honestly. At this point I'm just waiting for someone to give me an email address so I can get the official word.

Edited October 25, 2015 by ParaGoomba Slayer

[InterceptorMad 2,007]

You are right on one point. Your opponent broke the rules. Albeit in a way that was detrimental to his list rather than helping it.

 

So not only should you have said something so as not to get a free ship off the board, you should of said something to stop HIM cheating too.

 

But the point here is, his mistake was a genuine mistake. He'd thought you'd hit, but you hadn't. So him removing his ship early, still cheating as it was, was a genuine mistake.

 

You on the other hand DELIBERATELY withheld the information that he had not been destroyed, meaning your cheating was not a mistake, but a choice on your part in order to do better in the game.

 

And it's getting even worse now that you are trying to pin the blame for the situation on him and make yourself the 'innocent' party.

[digitalbusker 2,248]

Everything that happens in this game is predicated on both players having an accurate picture of the game state. When you roll dice, especially if you're rolling in a way that's potentially harder to see, like into a tray or using the app, it is your responsibility to make sure the results are accurately understood by the other player.

I can't understand why you think this needs an official answer. The Compare Results and Deal Damage steps of the attack sequence don't give one player some sole responsibility for making sure the results are accurately processed. Nor do they say anything to indicate that any of this information is not supposed to be public.

(I also don't understand why you think one of us is going to be able to give you a special email address where you can get that official answer. It's apparent that you think this is a rules question, so as much as I don't want Frank's time to be wasted with this, why not use the rules question form?)

The fact that this happened at all, plus the thing where you weight a dozen people who say one thing the same as one person who says the other, smacks of reflexive thinking. You see that the other player is about to remove his Poe, and you have an understandable impulse to let that happen, which then colors your thinking about the issue. I want to ask you to imagine the situation reversed, but I honestly don't think you're capable of that at this point. That's not meant as an attack, just an acknowledgement that setting aside one's self interest and being empathetic is harder than we like to admit.

Edited October 30, 2015 by digitalbusker

[ParaGoomba Slayer 3,180]

If I removed my own actually not dead Poe from the board and my opponent told me about it afterwards, I would have closed my eyes, lowered my face, and said, "Wait, what?! Aw **** it!" and laughed. I would have seen it as something bone headed on my part.

I'm asking for the email address of someone on the design team for two reasons.

1.) Every once and a while I see a post from someone saying, "Hey, I emailed the rules team about this situation and this game designer said this: *quote from game designer here*.

2.) I wasn't aware of this rules form I could submit. Could you point me to it please?

Something of note about the dice tray. What originally convinced me to use a dice tray was an incident a few months ago when a die landed at a 45 degree angle in the seam of two tables which caused the very same opponent mentioned in this thread to insist that it not be rerolled because I had 8 ships and to have it count as a hit. "Are you ******* serious? Nick you have 8 ships." The use of the dice tray was to prevent that sort of needless argument from even happening in the first place. Also to prevent dice hitting game elements.

Edited October 25, 2015 by ParaGoomba Slayer

[Darth Emphatic 148]

When everyones against you, there is usually a lesson in there. Its both players job to remember rebel captive, it is both players responsibility to make sure the game state is correct. It doesnt matter who is 'morev wrong, you had the means to correct it, you should have corrected it, but you chose to not do so.

[Darth Emphatic 148]

On a side note, and this isnt directed at the OP, I am surprised this conversation is still going. The overwhelming majority has said it was underhanded.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Darth Emphatic

[Rosco74 105]

Man, just move on and forget it, that's just a game ^^

[Budgernaut 6,255]

2.) I wasn't aware of this rules form I could submit. Could you point me to it please?

 

It's at the very, very bottom of the page (any forum page) in fine print. It says "Rules Questions."

[Arschbombe 1,001]

Waiting on the official word?

Here's the official word: douchebag.