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DTDanix

Bleed and double special actions

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Let's say the Royal Guard Champion has Bleed.

You activate him, then play Flurry of Blades.

 

How many strain do you take from bleed?

 

1, 2, or 3?

 

My vote probably goes to 2, because you're using 2 actions to do it.  Is there an official ruling on this?

 

The question arises out of the fact that Flurry (or Pummel, or any other double special action) could be considered a single special action that costs 2 actions.

You only bleed when you resolve an action.  Technically, you could count this as resolving a single special action that costs 2 actions.

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Technically, you could count this as resolving a single special action that costs 2 actions.

 

Not really. The arrow icon is the IA equivalent to writing/saying "Special Action" (see LtPG p.5). This means Flurry (as well as Pummel) is 2 special actions. Thus you suffer 2 strain. 

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Technically, you could count this as resolving a single special action that costs 2 actions.

 

Not really. The arrow icon is the IA equivalent to writing/saying "Special Action" (see LtPG p.5). This means Flurry (as well as Pummel) is 2 special actions. Thus you suffer 2 strain. 

 

Not 100% correct. It is one special action, that costs two actions two be performed. Thus you suffer 2 strain. 

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Technically, you could count this as resolving a single special action that costs 2 actions.

 

Not really. The arrow icon is the IA equivalent to writing/saying "Special Action" (see LtPG p.5). This means Flurry (as well as Pummel) is 2 special actions. Thus you suffer 2 strain. 

 

Not 100% correct. It is one special action, that costs two actions two be performed. Thus you suffer 2 strain. 

 

I believe that flurry is most correctly referred to as an ABILITY, not an action at all.  Quote from RRG : "All text on cards and hero sheets are referred to as abilities. Abilities provide special effects that can be performed above and beyond the standard rules of the game."  It is referred to in other sections as a 'special action ability', but the RRG also says "If an ability has two A icons, it costs the figure two of its actions to resolve this ability"  Thus, Flurry of Blades is a single ABILITY that requires TWO SPECIAL ACTIONS, and would therefore entail two strain under the bleed condition.

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 Flurry of Blades is a single ABILITY that requires TWO SPECIAL ACTIONS, .

Not 100% correct. Flurry of Blades is a single Ability that allows the RGC to perform one special action, that costs two actions to be performed. Thus you suffer 2 strain. 

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 Flurry of Blades is a single ABILITY that requires TWO SPECIAL ACTIONS, .

Not 100% correct. Flurry of Blades is a single Ability that allows the RGC to perform one special action, that costs two actions to be performed. Thus you suffer 2 strain. 

 

I posted the rules... it is not a 'special action', it is a special action ABILITY.  it uses two special actions, which are denoted by the arrow symbols.  According to the Rules guide, special action is just like a move, it gives you 'X' value which can then be spent to do 'Y'.  In the case of move, you gain movement points, and spend them to physically move the figure.  In the case of the arrow, it IS a special action which can be spent on an ability.  Flurry of blades is an ability, not an action, special or otherwise.  Again, "If an ability has two A icons, it costs the figure two of its actions to resolve this ability"  Flurry is the ability, the specials are the actions required to trigger the ability.  One ability, two actions, two strains.

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I don't think, that we really disagree. We both say "2 strain". This conflict is absolutely unnecessary.

 

This is at least the 3rd time that exactly this has been discussed. Please search for yourself on this forum, if you don't believe me.

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The crux of the argument is merely definition:

 

I said: Flurry of Blades is a single Ability that allows the RGC to perform one special action, that costs two actions to be performed. (Thus you suffer 2 strain.)

 

tomcat wrote: [...] it is not a 'special action', it is a special action ABILITY.  it uses two special actions, which are denoted by the arrow symbols. [...] Flurry of blades is an ability, not an action, special or otherwise.  

 

My arguments are: No matter if there are one or two ARROW icons, the regarding ability is one special action. (Effects, that are resolved at the end of a special action are not resolved half way through the special action.) If there are two ARROW icons, this one special action takes two actions of the number of allowed actions per figure to be performed. (see ABILITIES and ACTIONS in the RRG).

I think, by the RRG: A single ability that allows to perform a special action (no matter if it are 1 or 2 ARROW icons) is called a Special Action Ability.

 

 

@FIZZ: Sorry, I hadn't seen, that you have changed your sig.

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Let me see if I have this right:

 

The crux of the argument here that if an action costs an additional ┌►, does it count as one action or two?

My only suggestion is that we call Flurry and Pounce and Force Choke abilities rather than using the term 'action' in any capacity. The actions, which are the focus of bleed, are move, interact, attack, and special. 'Special' refers to the arrow, IMO, and not the ability the arrow triggers. So I think using the term action to refer to Flurry is misleading and the source of confusion in the OP. It makes much more sense for Flurry to be an ability that is triggered by two special actions, which makes the two strain penalty crystal clear.

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Okay, we were both partly right and partly wrong.  Here is the official response from Paul Winchester:

 

"

Hi Tom,
 
This ability (and others like it) is a single special action that costs the figure both of its actions. Therefore, a bleeding RGC would only suffer 1 strain for performing Flurry of Blades.
 
Thanks!

Paul Winchester
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
 
So there you have it.  It only costs one strain even though it takes two actions!  Who'dve thunk?

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