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N'Dru Suhlak

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Nice ideas on N'dru!  I have ran him twice with decent results, both times: N'dru w/ Lonewolf for 19 pts.  I kept him cheap and had him flank/harass as a distraction.  If the enemy targets him it is shots not directed at the rest of that list which was Kavil and Kath.

 

I have been trying to fit him into a list lately and can't quite do it.  For 20 points I can have a Khiraxz which is a little tougher, plays well with others, and has a 1 hard turn.  I like N'dru for his ability and awesome card art and I really want to find more ways to fit him in lists but I haven't figured it out yet.

So long as you can maintain range, N'dru hits harder with mini-predator and is almost as tough (That Lone Wolf defensive reroll can be huge).

 

Kithraxz fights better alongside his buddies, and can choose not to be run as a flanker.

 

I've constantly tried to find a thirty, fourty-something point ship that's worth its salt so I can fly Ace+2K+N'dru for quite the nasty little squad. Possibly Kavil, though I'd prefer something more jinky or jousty... we'll see, of course. I'm sure FFG'll get a small Scum ship right eventually. ;)

 

I'm pretty hopeful for the G-1A. There are some sweet builds for that, so long as the price is right and the dial sufficiently B-wing-ish. :)

 

 

I was planning on trying a list with a similar idea tonight! 

  • Kavil w/ Pred, Autoblaster, Engine Upgrade, Unhinged
  • N'dru w/ Glitter, Lonewolf, Homing Missile
  • Cartel Marauder x2

A couple things I'm not sure about.  First, VI vs Pred on Kavil for PS9 at the expense of the Pred re-roll since I'll probably be spending my action boosting into range 1 or out of arc.  Another question is Lonewolf vs Crackshot on N'dru to really make that Homing Missile stick vs re-rolls for the entire span of his potentially very short life.

 

Lastly, maybe I just ditch Kavil for someone else?  But who?  I have 34 points in Kavil, for that I could get Talonbane but he isn't very dodgy without Engine Upgrade and that leaves just two points for EPT and Illicits(also I need to buy a third Khiraxz.)  I could trim down N'dru, give him Cluster Missiles instead and then give Talon Predator.  Wow.  Well I just talked myself into it, just need to see if the store has another Khiraxz tonight and maybe I'll give it a try.

 

Crackshot instead of LW with Homing Missiles is to maximize the damage of the shot. Then he become kinda like a Generic X-Wing with a PS7, which is still not that bad. But that 5 dice F+TL attack versus -1Evade result and no evade token should give you a good headstart for the rest of the game. 

 

Lonewolf will be useful as long as N'Dru is alive and over range 2 of the rest of his team, so a great choice. With Lonewolf though, I would favor Cluster Missiles over Homing Missiles. That's what I decided to try tonight:

 

N'Dru with Lonewolf, Cluster Missiles, Glimmerstims

Kavil with Deadeye, Proton Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Blaster Turret, R4 Aggromech

Talonbane Cobra with Predator, Glimmerstims, Engine Upgrade

 

I also brought Homing and Crackshot, in case I want to try it in a second game.

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It's easy to fall into a point trap on Kavil and give him lots of upgrades, but a cheap Blaster+Agro is definitely worth its points and the only reason I might try the Turret+Engine+Unhinged+3ptEPT is if I knew the opponent would bring stress mechanics, because obviously a Blaster Turret needs that Focus action and Ys have THE worst innate green dial in the game.

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My most fun N'dru list for awhile was:

N'dru + LW + hot shot

Emmon + proximity + title + gunner

2x pirates with feedback

If they want to chase N'dru while Emmon sets up bombing runs and the z's clog and auto damage...great. Fly at Emmon and the Z's and pretty well guarantee 4 auto damage + gunner Firespray and N'dru sets up for an end game kill. I like it. Very scummy. Very potent.

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Well, since we were only three, we played a three players game instead. I still went with N'Dru but with the Sniper build (Crackshot, Homing, Glimmerstim). It was as deadly as I thought and I'll definetly try it again in a standard 2 player game.

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Holy cow. Just finished my opening round of the comp. N'dru (equipped with LW, Glitter and Cluster Missiles) faced off against Canor Jax equipped with everything (PTL, TC, AT, title and then some) Opening round Jax stripped N'dru of shields, N'dru had TL but no shot.

 

Next round I did a K-Turn and my opponent made a tactical error by not getting out of range or arc of the cluster missiles. So I laid down the Glitter Cluster and did not even have to roll the second attack. 

Jax is dead baby, Jax is dead. 

Man, N'dru is pretty strong with this. Not OP but competitive. Would have like blaster turret though... can't have it all.

 

Next round I might take tactical jammer off Bossk and give him wired.  

I won loosing 3 shields in total. Felt sorry for my opp. He rolled some **** and made two tactical errors. Good guy though. Played an interesting squad. Powerful but not cheesy.

Jax

Vessery

the new FO tie x2

Edited by 2Hard

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It's easy to fall into a point trap on Kavil and give him lots of upgrades, but a cheap Blaster+Agro is definitely worth its points and the only reason I might try the Turret+Engine+Unhinged+3ptEPT is if I knew the opponent would bring stress mechanics, because obviously a Blaster Turret needs that Focus action and Ys have THE worst innate green dial in the game.

Regarding Kavil, I also like to give him R4+Blaster turret; that's 30 pts and it should be worth its points. But I also found out, after trying it a couple of time, that giving him deadeye+Proton Torpedoes make for a deadly opener. Thanks to the deadeye+R4 combo, I use my focus to shoot my Torpedo, gaining a TL in the process, for a 4 dice+TL and switching the first focus into a crit. It does cost more, but it usually give me an early boost. Not sure about Extra Munitions because he doesn't always have a situation when it would be useful, since he start using his turret after that. But for two points, you are making sure that nobody will stay in your front range 2-3 zone, so that might still serve a purpose for zone denial.

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I favour two superficially similar but very different N'dru builds.  I call them The Scalpel and the Hammer.

 

The Scalpel

N'dru Suhlak - Crackshot, Homing Missile, Glitterstim

 

The Hammer

N'dru Suhlak - Lone Wolf, Cluster Missiles, Glitterstim

 

The Scalpel is the high agility/low health hunter.  His five targetlocked/focused attack dice, coupled with defence reduction shenanigans means he can potentially one-shot a turtled Soontir Fel or cloaked Phantom.  The Hammer is the fat ship killer.  Two four dice attacks with one reroll and focus can cripple low agility targets (and potentially one-shot Y's/B's).

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I want to like N'Dru Suhlak, I really do. I've tried multiple times to make him work but there are a couple significant issues th as the I always come back to. 1) he's still in a Z-95 and susceptible to dying quickly. 2) dice are still unreliable.

Yes, there are great ways to enhance his attack and give him the potential for a sweet alpha strike at the beginning of the game. The problem is that you still have an element of inconsistency for that single all important turn that's going make or break his usefulness.

Over the course of a game you will have your times that you roll poorly and those that you roll well. Over the course of a game it normally averages out to a certain degree. Same thing for a full day of games or tournament. Yes, some games will be better than others but overall you have a longer period of time to let things average out. With a loaded up Suhlak you don't have that luxury of letting things average out, you need this one specific attack round to hit. You need to get the attack off on the right target. You need everything go right for this one specific instance. Yes, his chances of having a successful attack are increased as compared to other pilots but the element of uncertainty/inconsistency remains. After that attack he's still in a Z-95. I have really grown to like Z-95's but they clearly have deficiencies. Limited attack. Squishy. They are clearly best in numbers. Or complimenting the rest of your numbers. But N'Dru is most effective when he's off by himself given his ability. If he's off by himself there is a good chance that one portion of your list or another isn't focusing on the portion of your enemies list that you really should be or want to be focusing on. It can happen but rarely does the way you want it to work. And no matter where he ends up he's still squishy and will have a limited attack after his ordnance is gone. More often than not the points you invest in him can be much better used elsewhere.

These are the reasons he is strictly in my "for fun" lists and why you won't (or rarely) see him in competitive lists that perform well at a high level. Skilled players are typically looking for ways to eliminate uncertainty.

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Skilled players mathematicians are typically looking for ways to eliminate uncertainty.

 

Fixed that for you.  Skill does not equal statistics.

 

There's an entire world of difference between being a skilled player and being able to optimise a list.  Skilled players know how to get the best out of pilots and make them work for them, for a start.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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I want to like N'Dru Suhlak, I really do. I've tried multiple times to make him work but there are a couple significant issues th as the I always come back to. 1) he's still in a Z-95 and susceptible to dying quickly. 2) dice are still unreliable.

Yes, there are great ways to enhance his attack and give him the potential for a sweet alpha strike at the beginning of the game. The problem is that you still have an element of inconsistency for that single all important turn that's going make or break his usefulness.

Over the course of a game you will have your times that you roll poorly and those that you roll well. Over the course of a game it normally averages out to a certain degree. Same thing for a full day of games or tournament. Yes, some games will be better than others but overall you have a longer period of time to let things average out. With a loaded up Suhlak you don't have that luxury of letting things average out, you need this one specific attack round to hit. You need to get the attack off on the right target. You need everything go right for this one specific instance. Yes, his chances of having a successful attack are increased as compared to other pilots but the element of uncertainty/inconsistency remains. After that attack he's still in a Z-95. I have really grown to like Z-95's but they clearly have deficiencies. Limited attack. Squishy. They are clearly best in numbers. Or complimenting the rest of your numbers. But N'Dru is most effective when he's off by himself given his ability. If he's off by himself there is a good chance that one portion of your list or another isn't focusing on the portion of your enemies list that you really should be or want to be focusing on. It can happen but rarely does the way you want it to work. And no matter where he ends up he's still squishy and will have a limited attack after his ordnance is gone. More often than not the points you invest in him can be much better used elsewhere.

These are the reasons he is strictly in my "for fun" lists and why you won't (or rarely) see him in competitive lists that perform well at a high level. Skilled players are typically looking for ways to eliminate uncertainty.

 

There is something really important that should be said about N'Dru. He's not a centerpiece ship, he's a filler. You should not build a team around him, just like you said, he's still just a Z-95. But he's a great filler, for 17-25 pts, I think he can be a very good addition to any team. For a couple of reasons.

 

First, you speak about consistency, and I'll tell you that a Lonewolf+Glimmerstim 4 dice Cluster Missiles attack is consistant. Sure, you'll have your bad games where you will roll blanks and only blanks, but the same thing can be said about any unit so unless you only play with AC Advanced, you should expect a couple of bad luck here and there. A 4 dice attack with Focus and 1 reroll will average 3.5 hit per roll, that's pretty consistant. Especially if you can do it 2 times in a row. So if you miss with those missiles, it's not because the attack is unreliable, it's simply because you've been unlucky, twice.

 

But even if you've been unlucky. N'Dru will have already played his part in the control game. Before shooting his missiles, N'Dru is forcing your opponent into a choice: Should he go for N'Dru first and be done with him, after all he's only in a Z-95, should not be too hard to destroy, but if he do that he'll open himself to the other 75 pts of the team. Or should he go for the rest and accept to be dealt this deadly missile strike on his flank? My guess is that you should expect your opponent to go for N'Dru. So, you just got yourself a Scum Biggs. You know who your opponent will target first and should play accordingly. If he does not, you'll be able to make him pay. You can't ignore N'Dru with LW/GS/CM, simple as that. 

 

Another thing to consider is that, as long as he's alive with his Missiles, he'll create a Deadzone in front of him. No ship will want to park in front of him when he can unleash his Cluster attack. That's also some field control that you can exploit.

 

After shooting his missiles, if he's still alive, he's still a PS7 3 attack dice. that's still not something that your opponent should ignore.

 

But again, he's not meant to be the centerpiece. He's meant to eventually die, just like Biggs. But more often than not, he should at least play his part before dying.

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Skilled players mathematicians are typically looking for ways to eliminate uncertainty.

 

Fixed that for you.  Skill does not equal statistics.

 

There's an entire world of difference between being a skilled player and being able to optimise a list.  Skilled players know how to get the best out of pilots and make them work for them, for a start.

 

 

The skilled players absolutely try to reduce uncertainty. Part of that is in the list building process but it also happens on the table. Consistently putting yourself in a position where you don't have to throw green dice, making sure that you get to throw a lot of red dice, and making sure that you are getting to modify your dice are all things that minimize uncertainty. 

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Exactly.  We're not talking about a 30-45 point superfighter here, or even the main focus of a list.

 

We're talking about a 17 point PS7 elite pilot who hits like an X-Wing or TIE Interceptor.  Add Lone Wolf and he's still only 19 points.  Add Glitterstim on top and he costs the same as a Rookie Pilot.  Round off the build with a Missile or Modification and he STILL amounts to only 1/4 of your list, but has the ability to hit like a freight train.

 

Your opponent can't easily ignore him.  If he does, he'll hurt them.  But at the same time, your opponent has another 75-80 points of Scum ships to worry about as well.

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Treat him like a wounded PS 7 xwing with tricks...for the 22-25pt range that's pretty **** good.  I think glitterstim does add that point of extra durability and certainty in that key round. 

 

I feel like keeping him as cheap as possible is key and KNOWING how to spring the trap dependent on your loadout.

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Treat him like a wounded PS 7 xwing with tricks...for the 22-25pt range that's pretty **** good.  I think glitterstim does add that point of extra durability and certainty in that key round. 

 

I feel like keeping him as cheap as possible is key and KNOWING how to spring the trap dependent on your loadout.

I think Glitterstim is what N'Dru actually needed to move from average to really good.

 

Before Glitterstim, you could still do the 4 dice Cluster Missiles thing, but you lacked the Focus to modify both attack to make it really threatening. Sounded cool, but not really reliable with only the LW reroll to modify. Probably why I never really bothered with him until now. At the same time, since you had  to TL to fire your missiles, you were left without any modifier to help you defend (again just the LW reroll) so N'Dru was susceptible to an early death without even firing his missiles, especially since last meta was high PS bid everywhere. Now Glitterstim makes those missiles reliable and boost N'Dru defense so he can actually shoot them.

 

He's definetly now one of my top pick in this price range (17-25).

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Glitterstim's awesome on him, but I'm really liking the idea of the Unreliable Cloaking Device© on him as well - (him, TBC and Guri for that matter).

 

With his pilot ability, a repositional move can be a big help - as can an extra two defence dice on that initial joust.

 

N'dru Suhlak - Lone Wolf, Cloaking Device = potentially 21 points of hilarity.

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Glitterstim's awesome on him, but I'm really liking the idea of the Unreliable Cloaking Device© on him as well - (him, TBC and Guri for that matter).

 

With his pilot ability, a repositional move can be a big help - as can an extra two defence dice on that initial joust.

 

N'dru Suhlak - Lone Wolf, Cloaking Device = potentially 21 points of hilarity.

That could be a thing. The decloak might also help him get out of range 2 of his allies to trigger his ability.

 

I'm personally not sold on Cloaking Device because lucky as I am, I'll roll a focus every time I roll for it or at the worst possible time, so I'll continue to favor Glimmerstims, but the combo is actually pretty cool... man those scums love to pimp their ride.

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Glitterstim's awesome on him, but I'm really liking the idea of the Unreliable Cloaking Device© on him as well - (him, TBC and Guri for that matter).

 

With his pilot ability, a repositional move can be a big help - as can an extra two defence dice on that initial joust.

 

N'dru Suhlak - Lone Wolf, Cloaking Device = potentially 21 points of hilarity.

That could be a thing. The decloak might also help him get out of range 2 of his allies to trigger his ability.

 

I'm personally not sold on Cloaking Device because lucky as I am, I'll roll a focus every time I roll for it or at the worst possible time, so I'll continue to favor Glimmerstims, but the combo is actually pretty cool... man those scums love to pimp their ride.

 

 

That's what initially got me excited about the cloak. I've always wanted to like N'Dru but he was never mobile enough to really fill the flanker role I wanted him to fill. I worry about a failure on approach leaving him exposed too early and losing the element of surprise.

I still think cloak will be good on him but I'll probably steer away from putting ordnance on him when I take it. I think if he takes ordnance then Glitterstim is a must.   

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Glitterstim's awesome on him, but I'm really liking the idea of the Unreliable Cloaking Device© on him as well - (him, TBC and Guri for that matter).

 

With his pilot ability, a repositional move can be a big help - as can an extra two defence dice on that initial joust.

 

N'dru Suhlak - Lone Wolf, Cloaking Device = potentially 21 points of hilarity.

That could be a thing. The decloak might also help him get out of range 2 of his allies to trigger his ability.

 

I'm personally not sold on Cloaking Device because lucky as I am, I'll roll a focus every time I roll for it or at the worst possible time, so I'll continue to favor Glimmerstims, but the combo is actually pretty cool... man those scums love to pimp their ride.

 

That's what initially got me excited about the cloak. I've always wanted to like N'Dru but he was never mobile enough to really fill the flanker role I wanted him to fill. I worry about a failure on approach leaving him exposed too early and losing the element of surprise.

I still think cloak will be good on him but I'll probably steer away from putting ordnance on him when I take it. I think if he takes ordnance then Glitterstim is a must.

Yeah I agree. Glitterstim if you want to bring ordnance; Hotshot if you want a shot turret; or Cloaking device if you want more mobility. So Wave 8 will bring a new way to use N'Dru! The more I think about it, the more I like this little guy!

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Played a 100pts game this afternoon (before playing an Epic game) with this build, and it went really well!

 

N'Dru Suhlak with Lonewolf, Glimmerstim, Cluster Missiles

Kavil with Deadeye, Proton Torpedoes, R4 Agro, Blaster Turret

Cartel Marauder

Cartel Marauder

 

Started with N'dru in one corner and Kavil with both Marauder on the other. It was against Chiraneau and Marek. My opponent decided to leave N'Dru alone and concentrate on Kavil and the Marauders. One thing led to another and thanks to the Torpedoes and concentrated fire (and some good roll, of course), the Decimator didn't last very long. I actually didn't had to use my Missiles on him in fact, since first round of engagement, he boosted out of N'Dru range 2 and I could not unleash them. They instead closed the deal by annihilating Marek at the end.

 

I'll definetely give this list another go. It can really hit like a train. And since it has no way to reposition, I feel like playing X-Wing in its purest form; No place for error.

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Well I just got powned by pimped VI Whisper and Palpmobile. Whisper and Suhlak faced off and Suhlak got 1 shotted. Perhaps I should have done a large straight or k-turn to deny whisper's shot but I gambled because I wanted to get the target lock. Maybe should have gone after palpmobile as at the end I only got 7 hits on it. Not even enough to get half points. Went down 0-100.

Definetly a better player.

Wish I was running 'Super Numb'.

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