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ScottieATF

New FAQ (XI-7 Ruling reversed)

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I can't help but feel a bit cynical.

I usually run Xi7s as my turbolaser upgrade anyway as they are helpful against redirect. Now that they are even better due to their changed effect I think we will see a lot more of them loaded onto ships. I think we will see ECM as a more popular choice now for defensive upgrades.

I think that it not an if that Xi7s will be loaded I think it's more probable.

So basically I think points spent on ECMs will be more worthwhile than on APs due to a more than likely chance of more ships running Xi7s

The cynicism in me think that perhaps FF are trying to push for more sales on the Nebs....since its the only pack to include the Xi7s

This is just my opinion but I'm a cynical bstd.

Edited by SmurfWedge

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you measure cardboard to cardboard for range. it is just saying for line of sight , if a ship C is between ship A and B and ship A is shooting ship B, you count the plastic as blocking LOS on C

That's obstruction and they make the point that it is different at the end when they use a word to describe each.

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I'll never understand the freaking out about one card change (unless it was a fleet wide thing like an admiral).

Yup. Easy enough to make this statement. I can dig it.

However.

In my own small little view of the world, there were a lot of assault frigs and a lot of assault frigs carried AP because they're great on AF particularly when they ignore the XI7 penalty.

AFs had become synonymous with rebel lists, in my head at least. If you remove that AF>AP>XI7 dynamic it really does end up changing ... everything.

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I'll never understand the freaking out about one card change (unless it was a fleet wide thing like an admiral).

Yup. Easy enough to make this statement. I can dig it.

However.

In my own small little view of the world, there were a lot of assault frigs and a lot of assault frigs carried AP because they're great on AF particularly when they ignore the XI7 penalty.

AFs had become synonymous with rebel lists, in my head at least. If you remove that AF>AP>XI7 dynamic it really does end up changing ... everything.

 

 

This example is an exact reason why the change was likely made.

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Well, I remember that XI7 Turbolasers were not taken often but with the proliferation of Advanced Projectors they may rise.

Then again. . . With people knowing that they are now gimped, XI7's might still not be taken much. . . Though I liked them because they were great against Star Destroyers

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This actually makes far more sense than most people think. It is consistent with other rules. The other ruling was not.

 

AP is can. XI7 is cannot. The other hull zones effect is still in play from AP.

 

Allow me to quote from the rules:

 

The Golden Rules
...
If a card effect uses the word “cannot,” that effect is
absolute.

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This actually makes far more sense than most people think. It is consistent with other rules. The other ruling was not.

 

AP is can. XI7 is cannot. The other hull zones effect is still in play from AP.

 

Allow me to quote from the rules:

 

The Golden Rules

...

If a card effect uses the word “cannot,” that effect is

absolute.

 

Yes.  I think the e-mail ruling was poorly thought out.  The current ruling jives exactly with the Golden Rules.

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Well, I remember that XI7 Turbolasers were not taken often but with the proliferation of Advanced Projectors they may rise.

Then again. . . With people knowing that they are now gimped, XI7's might still not be taken much. . . Though I liked them because they were great against Star Destroyers

 

I dunno, in my group someone takes XI7/Intel on something almost every game.

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I'll never understand the freaking out about one card change (unless it was a fleet wide thing like an admiral).

Yup. Easy enough to make this statement. I can dig it.

However.

In my own small little view of the world, there were a lot of assault frigs and a lot of assault frigs carried AP because they're great on AF particularly when they ignore the XI7 penalty.

AFs had become synonymous with rebel lists, in my head at least. If you remove that AF>AP>XI7 dynamic it really does end up changing ... everything.

 

 

This example is an exact reason why the change was likely made.

 

 

Exactly. I think with Wave 2 they have reconsidered how they want each ship to operate and made a deliberate decision to adjust it back. I think they are trying to make each rebel ship fit its role and place in the fleet better.

 

Case studies:

VSD - Could never take advanced projectors, and is horribly vulnerable to Xi7s if mass fire is coming at it. Compared to the Assault frigate - Considering it occupies a similar "weight" in the rebel fleet as the VSD, seemed to benefit disproportionally from APs. I think the assault frigate is supposed to maximise its use of range, evade and other defence tokens to fight. But compared to a VSD, with AP and its kiting ability, was by comparison, too good. 

 

MC80 - As a lot of people have pointed out, ECM is more important for this guy to keep the Brace available. With brace, you need 9 damage to get past the shelds and hit the hull in one volley, which shouldn't be happening that often!

 

MC30 - suffers a little bit from this change, especially at close range. The issue for it is it can now only redirect 1 away with one hit per volley, so any more than 4 damage is hitting the hull. I still think its a good thing - it makes other cards like admonition and lando more worth taking if you are expecting to close. Its still got the multiple evades.

 

Bottom line,

I think this is a good thing. Xi7s are a great upgrade on just about any ship, This change just brings the "specials" more into line with the others. H9s are still a very useful upgrade also, for anyone who isn't taking Home One.

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I wouldn't say X17s are great on "any" ship

 

 

in fact, I'd say it's not really that great until you start hitting VSD levels of dice/damage (good ole Salvation)

 

 

6 points per ship wracks up quickly, and the more shots you make with it the more damage gets redirected regardless

 

basically, I see X17s getting play in the following scenarios

 

1. Akbar ships of any description, especially with Home One or stuff like Intel Officer. Shrimps, especially at close range, are extra brutal 

 

2. ISD, in fact X-17s will probably be defined by the ISD if I had to guess

 

3. potentially VSD? Dominator for sure spits out enough dice to make it worthwhile

 

4. Salvation (if not going for Slaved Turrets)

 

 

anything else, imo, simply doesn't have enough dice to really benefit from nerfing redirects

Edited by ficklegreendice

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This "nerf" was 100% needed.  After 10+ games with Wave 2 materials, if this change had not been made Admiral Ackbar on a MC80 and Mc30/Cr90 spam would have dominated the meta.  Completely.  Now they are still very good but not easy button no skill required mode.  AP is still playable and still very good- it shuts down Demolisher quite effectively and GSD's in general. 

 

Go play some games before theorying yourself to death with worry and chicken littling over a single card change.  I guarantee you will be fine once you actually play it out on the table and see that the sky isn't falling.

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Keeping my personal opinions in my head where they belong: My play area has never used 'cardboard to cardboard' ever. While I suppose I can see why people can interpret it that way, it's just as easy to interpret the hullzone as including the entire parts of the base that it occupies. So for us that particular change effects essentially nothing, although I suppose I can see why it might affect some precision maneuvering for people who are really good at that.

 

XI-7...I think it's a good change, a sensical change, even though I'm a little snarly about it. I'm 100% rebel myself only because a significant portion of the local players are Imperial, and I feel kind of like I'm being punished for choosing the faction that has more shields than hull. That's the emotional response though. Edit: I may also be jumping the gun since Wave 2 isn't actually released yet, but I feel like this kind of preemptively punishes the MC30. With no Brace and the effectiveness of Redirect being substantially crimped, you're going to she Shrimps that can hang at long (medium with MM) but disintegrate at short range...which might have been the plan for them all along. Huh.

 

The logical response is I've always thought it was a little strange that although an AF2 technically had less hull than a VSD, it could repair that shields that makes up the difference for less engineering. This change probably evens that out a little more, although it means no more relying on APs to protect my 'Vettes at medium range. Might be time to go back to Mon Mothma with flowers and apologies.

Edited by Cuthawolf

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Like I said early:

 

blue dice = XI7

black dice = HTT

 

:D

Mikael Hasselstein faced a MC30 with Assault Proton Torpedoes and XI7 Turbolasers. That thing pushes a LOT of damage through.

I have reversed my opinion about XI7 Turbolasers tonight. Before I thought them near useless because I was not pushing enough damage with my Whales and even Salvation did not get enough damage in, but tonight, against Mikael Hasselstein (watch for the articles on both HNN and AFN) that damage with Akbar. . . WOW. . . Killed an ISD in 1 round of shooting with 2 Assault Frigates and an Assault Cruiser

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This "nerf" was 100% needed.  After 10+ games with Wave 2 materials, if this change had not been made Admiral Ackbar on a MC80 and Mc30/Cr90 spam would have dominated the meta.  Completely.  Now they are still very good but not easy button no skill required mode.  AP is still playable and still very good- it shuts down Demolisher quite effectively and GSD's in general. 

 

Go play some games before theorying yourself to death with worry and chicken littling over a single card change.  I guarantee you will be fine once you actually play it out on the table and see that the sky isn't falling.

 

I played against an AF with AP (and MM) yesterday and I can confirm this: it was just as resilient vs. my glads as it was the other day :D

 

Not seen a lot of XI7 use lately. Maybe that will change a bit now. Dunno.

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I think most of us are just in the jump back and scared mode since we just all noticed the change at once.

 

Given time a day or two and we will be fine and see why the change occurred. I don't expect to see XI7s everywhere but it's something as Rebel players we now have to think which upgrades we should take.

 

Will it effect me? Somewhat but I won't make huge fleet build changes because of it. Just now going to have to expect my shields to be punched through frequently.

 

As for the MC30, if a fleet is running a lot of XI7s then the MC30 will crumble no questions, which I think hurts that ship considering most people already thought it was flimsy.

 

Shocking Change? For Rebels yes but doesn't severally gimp us, Yet at least, since play testing needs to happen.

 

I expect this rule change to be no big deal in a few months

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This actually makes far more sense than most people think. It is consistent with other rules. The other ruling was not.

 

AP is can. XI7 is cannot. The other hull zones effect is still in play from AP.

 

Allow me to quote from the rules:

 

The Golden Rules

...If a card effect uses the word “cannot,” that effect is

absolute.

Cannot was never the issue.

It was the use of "Hull Zones" that created the ambiguity

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I think most of us are just in the jump back and scared mode since we just all noticed the change at once.

 

Given time a day or two and we will be fine and see why the change occurred. I don't expect to see XI7s everywhere but it's something as Rebel players we now have to think which upgrades we should take.

 

Will it effect me? Somewhat but I won't make huge fleet build changes because of it. Just now going to have to expect my shields to be punched through frequently.

 

As for the MC30, if a fleet is running a lot of XI7s then the MC30 will crumble no questions, which I think hurts that ship considering most people already thought it was flimsy.

 

Shocking Change? For Rebels yes but doesn't severally gimp us, Yet at least, since play testing needs to happen.

 

I expect this rule change to be no big deal in a few months

I am. Running game it. If I am using Akbar and I have a bunch of dice, I am using it.

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