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Lyraeus

Discussion Time! Pocket Carrier

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Id argue that you have 13 stands of fighters and 15 available due to commands/tarkin. You could cut 2 expanded hangar bays to trim 10pts and either upgrade a squadron(s) or add some other upgrade (boosted comms.....) I don't have the new upgrade cards committed to memory yet.  

Boosted Comms is an offensive retrofit, and so would replace the hangars on a Raider, leaving it able to activate one squadron at long range. Not very inspiring.

EDIT: Pardon, I misread your post for some reason, and see that you wrote exactly what I did.

Still, for one activation that seems like a real waste.

Exactly when is ONE TIE fighter squadron activation going to be worth a whole dial? I just don't see it.

 

 

when you navigate dial and tarkin token a squadron.... by boosted comms i think i meant flight controllers for the extra pew in dog fights.

 

Ask luke how one extra squadron activation was worth a whole dial, when vader was on his arse, and han was waiting in the wind........ this is a historical game 

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Id argue that you have 13 stands of fighters and 15 available due to commands/tarkin. You could cut 2 expanded hangar bays to trim 10pts and either upgrade a squadron(s) or add some other upgrade (boosted comms.....) I don't have the new upgrade cards committed to memory yet.  

Boosted Comms is an offensive retrofit, and so would replace the hangars on a Raider, leaving it able to activate one squadron at long range. Not very inspiring.

EDIT: Pardon, I misread your post for some reason, and see that you wrote exactly what I did.

Still, for one activation that seems like a real waste.

Exactly when is ONE TIE fighter squadron activation going to be worth a whole dial? I just don't see it.

 

 

when you navigate dial and tarkin token a squadron.... by boosted comms i think i meant flight controllers for the extra pew in dog fights.

 

Ask luke how one extra squadron activation was worth a whole dial, when vader was on his arse, and han was waiting in the wind........ this is a historical game 

 

I admire your spirit, but would never... EVER waste a six point upgrade on a single blue die for a single squadron when the exact same upgrade on a different ship could yield a potential six blue dice for six squadrons.

That's just me though. Point efficiency is a constant consideration.

EDIT: Not to mention that six point upgrade is resting on a 2 shield 4 hull ship with no redirect. If I saw this across the table from me I wouldn't be terribly concerned, which is really what turns me off to it the most, I think.

Edited by Tvayumat

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I'll admit it, I've been designing my Imperial campaign fleet around the notion of a fast battlegroup so this is where I was going.

 

I don't tend to go to extremes in anything, I do like the notion of the squadrons predominantly being with a wolf pack group. Picking away at an opponents defences before Demolisher sweeps in to clean up is pretty nice, nipping at an opponent with a pair of darts, bombers, then Demolisher is even nicer.

 

I'm interested to see how a cross pincer will do in pinning down Imperial forces or trying to make the rebels commit to a direct attack rather than kiting.  We'll see in about a month I guess.

 

Imperial Fleet (397 points)

1 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Admiral Motti (97)
2 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer (73)
3 • Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer - Ordnance Experts - Assault Proton Torpedoes - Demolisher (75)
4 • Raider I-class corvette - Expanded Hangar Bay - Instigator (53)
5 • Raider I-class corvette - Expanded Hangar Bay (49)
6 • Major Rhymer TIE Bomber Squadron (16)
7 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
8 • TIE Bomber Squadron (9)
9 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)
10 • TIE Fighter Squadron (8)

 

I like the number of ship activations, I'm comfortable with a lot of naked ships, and with a pair of Raiders playing the 'guess which turn you'll need Squadrons in' rather than a VSD, or even the Relentless, is a game I think I'd like to try. The thing is, I haven't had a chance to play with the ISD's yet (Or I'd take an upgraded ISD-II Relentless, swap Demolisher for Insidious, and add at least one Aggressor or Firespray over those VSD's), but I'm perfectly comfortable with how a VSD works. One may talk about efficiency all day long, but if a list spends all its time on paper and not on the table, it's just a number of cost efficient targets :P

 

Post Scriptum: before anyone asks, the 5th squadron Tie Ln is there mostly because I don't have any experience with Aggressors (otherwise it'd be one), but I can usually work in a 'freak' Squadron token with a Gladiator which puts off a lot of my opponents.  The extra squadron often means another activation worth of chewing for an enemy ace (which is common here).  It's unwieldly on first glance, but I worked with something like it at Sullust and I've grown used to it.

Edited by Vykes

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As a Rebel player I will weigh in here and say this list is total Drek. We will never ever fall for this kind of foolery, and you're better off spending points elsewhere.

 

I am totally not saying this out of fear of a Wolf Pack of Corvettes and fighters. Nope. Not at all. <.<

 

>.>

 

 

 

In all seriousness, I've thought myself about the mobile carrier for a while. With Tarkin throwing out Squadron Tokens you can activate one squadron guranteed each time a ship activates, and you can either have a slightly "Heavier" carrier with expanded fighter bays, or invest in a couple of the heavier Rogues like the Aggressor. Then you can activate your Corvettes with each command they need, and even use Wulf Yularen if you want to hold a token but think Tarkin might be better off throwing a different token out on one turn or another.

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I've looked at the Gladiator squadrons before at 300 points but was never enthusiastic enough to really try hard to make it work. But the more I think about raiders with Tarkin throwing TIE bombers to be their "red dice" then moving in for the kill. I like it. I always prefer the fast game to the slow (as a big proponent of the b-wing it has been odd for me).

But those fast imperial squadrons are calling to me. Sure the rebels have the A-wing, but it's more expensive and can't crit.

Perhaps I need to think more about the rebel version with CR-90s and A-wings. Something is missing there. Perhaps Tarkin. Garm doesn't cut it there.

Enough rambling.

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Having a fast-moving low-command squad activator can be pretty effective. I've been able to use CR90s to activate Rebel squads when desperate before, but by the looks of things the Raider does it better if properly kitted up. Doing it with CR90s requires Ray to get that second squad activated, but Raiders can actually be built to do this.

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For what it's worth I has this as part of my Sullust fleet:

 

CR90(B): Dodonna's Pride, Raymus

2x A-Wings

 

I used this as a mini-carrier. It allowed me to have two "long range" black dice against ships while Dodonna's Pride was scooting around the back of the other guy's fleet. It didn't deal huge amounts of damage, but it was consistent and and nibbled away at shields quite nicely.

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I've looked at the Gladiator squadrons before at 300 points but was never enthusiastic enough to really try hard to make it work. But the more I think about raiders with Tarkin throwing TIE bombers to be their "red dice" then moving in for the kill. I like it. I always prefer the fast game to the slow (as a big proponent of the b-wing it has been odd for me).

But those fast imperial squadrons are calling to me. Sure the rebels have the A-wing, but it's more expensive and can't crit.

Perhaps I need to think more about the rebel version with CR-90s and A-wings. Something is missing there. Perhaps Tarkin. Garm doesn't cut it there.

Enough rambling.

You can only activate 1 squadron maybe 2.

The Raiders get Expanded Hanger Bay or Boosted Comms and Tarkin

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You could do this?

 

Raider 1, expanded hangar bays, Wulff Yularen

3x TIE Interceptors

 

You wouldn't even need tarkin, as Wulff would perma-repeat the squadron token.

 

This setup would be blitzkrieg fast, and utter death to enemy squadrons.

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I've looked at the Gladiator squadrons before at 300 points but was never enthusiastic enough to really try hard to make it work. But the more I think about raiders with Tarkin throwing TIE bombers to be their "red dice" then moving in for the kill. I like it. I always prefer the fast game to the slow (as a big proponent of the b-wing it has been odd for me).

But those fast imperial squadrons are calling to me. Sure the rebels have the A-wing, but it's more expensive and can't crit.

Perhaps I need to think more about the rebel version with CR-90s and A-wings. Something is missing there. Perhaps Tarkin. Garm doesn't cut it there.

Enough rambling.

You can only activate 1 squadron maybe 2.

The Raiders get Expanded Hanger Bay or Boosted Comms and Tarkin

Everyone gets Tarkin

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You could do this?

 

Raider 1, expanded hangar bays, Wulff Yularen

3x TIE Interceptors

 

You wouldn't even need tarkin, as Wulff would perma-repeat the squadron token.

 

This setup would be blitzkrieg fast, and utter death to enemy squadrons.

How about swapping the interceptors for bombers, and adding Ruthless Strategists? This would make your mini battle group much more of a threat against ships, but still reasonably effective against squadrons. (You'd use your squadron command to move in your bombers and start softening up the target, then follow up with anti-squadron fire including the guaranteed extra damage.)

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I've looked at the Gladiator squadrons before at 300 points but was never enthusiastic enough to really try hard to make it work. But the more I think about raiders with Tarkin throwing TIE bombers to be their "red dice" then moving in for the kill. I like it. I always prefer the fast game to the slow (as a big proponent of the b-wing it has been odd for me).

But those fast imperial squadrons are calling to me. Sure the rebels have the A-wing, but it's more expensive and can't crit.

Perhaps I need to think more about the rebel version with CR-90s and A-wings. Something is missing there. Perhaps Tarkin. Garm doesn't cut it there.

Enough rambling.

You can only activate 1 squadron maybe 2.

The Raiders get Expanded Hanger Bay or Boosted Comms and Tarkin

Everyone gets Tarkin
Exactly!

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I hate you all. I might play more imperial now. Darn dark side.

You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Pocket Carriers. Use them. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant. It is unavoidable. It is your destiny. You, like your father, are now mine.

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I hate you all. I might play more imperial now. Darn dark side.

You want this, don't you? The hate is swelling in you now. Take your Pocket Carriers. Use them. I am unarmed. Strike me down with it. Give in to your anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant. It is unavoidable. It is your destiny. You, like your father, are now mine.

So you're asking to be thrown down a deep shaft? We can arrange this.

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Its a good topic.

 

I think Fickle has made the point a lot previously that any ship can and should squadron command at the right time, people shouldn't get too hung up on the "carrier" concept.

 

Raiders with command value 1 are ideal for this because you can set their commands whenever required. A couple of expanded hangers would do the job, though flight controllers or even chirenau might also be considered for specialist squadron uses (just as Adar Tallon can be just as effective on a corvette as he can be for a "carrier").

 

With Tarkin, makes for a very flexible and adaptable fleet.

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The one issue I saw when I contemplated this was that raiders need their speed and commanding squadrons will slow them and crimp their movement. If I did it, I'd want 4 Raiders and a balance of fighters and Rogue enabled squads maxing at 134 pts for squadrons.

 

Not really.  Assuming you are using TIE Figters/Bombers/Advanced, you're still looking at Distance 4 which is just short of Speed 4 in a straight line.  Given 1-2 turns of catchup from placing at Distance 2 ahead of the ships at the start, and you'll handily deliver your fighters to the neemy exactly as planned.

 

Out id curiosity, I calculate an alternative:

 

  • Raider 1, Tarkin, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Major Rhymer
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber

This list would seriously screw over a lot of big ship lists simply by placing the bombers, then scattering.

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The one issue I saw when I contemplated this was that raiders need their speed and commanding squadrons will slow them and crimp their movement. If I did it, I'd want 4 Raiders and a balance of fighters and Rogue enabled squads maxing at 134 pts for squadrons.

 

Not really.  Assuming you are using TIE Figters/Bombers/Advanced, you're still looking at Distance 4 which is just short of Speed 4 in a straight line.  Given 1-2 turns of catchup from placing at Distance 2 ahead of the ships at the start, and you'll handily deliver your fighters to the neemy exactly as planned.

 

Out id curiosity, I calculate an alternative:

 

  • Raider 1, Tarkin, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Raider 1, Boosted Comms, Assault Proton Torpedos
  • Major Rhymer
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber
  • TIE Bomber

This list would seriously screw over a lot of big ship lists simply by placing the bombers, then scattering.

 

 

Thus is born the Raider-Bomber Swarm!

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While I'm as intrigued by the prospect of a Raider/Bomber swarm as the next guy, I'm not totally sold on the Raider's long-term survivability, so taking five raiders and a bombing swarm against 4 AFIIs with Ackbar and Gunnery Teams sounds like a dangerous proposition to me.

 

My take on a "pocket" carrier list is more akin to how I'd view a pocket healer: a supporting ship that takes over a role (in this case, a command on the dial), so that the fleet's main workhorses can focus on doing their job (i.e., blowing stuff up if supported by a pocket healer, or blowing stuff up/staying alive if supported by a pocket carrier).

 

For an ISD list, I'd consider something like this:

  1. ISD I (Tarkin, Gunnery Team, XI7): 161 points
  2. Glad I (Ordnance Experts, APTs, Demolisher): 75 points
  3. Raider I (Ordnance Experts, Boosted Comms): 52 points
  4. Raider I (Ordnance Experts, Boosted Comms): 52 points
  5. TIE Bomber x4: 36 points
  6. TIE Fighter x3 (or TIE Fighter + Aggressor): 24 points

TOTAL: 384, season the rest to taste.

 

Or, if the ISD squeezes too many points out of the list, you could try something more VIC-centric, with more anti-ship oompf on the Raiders:

  1. VSD I (Tarkin, Gunnery Team, XI7): 124 points
  2. Glad I (Ordnance Experts, APTs, Demolisher): 75 points
  3. Raider I (Ordnance Experts, Boosted Comms): 52 points
  4. Raider I (Ordnance Experts, Boosted Comms): 52 points
  5. TIE Bomber x4: 36 points
  6. Aggressor x2: 32 points
  7. Jumpmaster x1: 12 points

TOTAL: 367, season to taste

 

Or if Vics are too slow and you're partial to Glad boxing and want to try it out against MC-80s:

  1. Glad I (Tarkin, Ordnance Experts, ACMs): 105 points
  2. Glad I (Ordnance Experts, ACMs, Demolisher): 77 points
  3. Glad I (Ordnance Experts, ACMs): 67 points
  4. Raider I (Ordnance Experts, Boosted Comms): 52 points
  5. Raider I (Ordnance Experts, Boosted Comms): 52 points
  6. TIE Bomber x4: 36 points

TOTAL: 381 points (375 with APTs instead of ACMs), season to taste.

 

The point with all three lists is that there are just enough squadrons in the list that the pocket carriers can activate them with squadron commands independently, letting the big dogs spam repair, CF, or nav actions to do their job better. Excess squadrons can be activated with a squadron token by another ship for free, or preferably have the Rogue keyword so they can function independently.

 

I do feel Boosted Comms will be a greater benefit to the Raider pocket carrier than expanded hanger bay, especially with Tarkin in the mix, as the Raider wants to stay as far away from enemy ships for as long as possible, due to its Brace + Evade combo. With regular activations, you're probably going to need to come into long range to consistently activate your squadron group (which, against Ackbar MC-80s/30s/AFIIs, will be incredibly dangerous, especially if your brace gets blocked by a Home One accuracy). With long range activations, a Raider with proper maneuvering should be able to command its own squadrons while staying outside of firing range of its target.

 

My two cents. :)

Edited by Rythbryt

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While I'm as intrigued by the prospect of a Raider/Bomber swarm as the next guy, I'm not totally sold on the Raider's long-term survivability,

 

I think you have it : the Raider is likely to be about as survivable as the CR-90.

 

The Raider/Bomber swarm is a neat concept, but may lend itself to being a one trick pony.  For example, it will run really fast and grab scenario objectives extremely well.  For survivability, a mix of hulls will perform better.

 

Yet, the idea of setting up a game where a swarm of Raiders and Fighters encounters a swarm of CR-90's and Fighters sounds like a ton o' fun!

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While I'm as intrigued by the prospect of a Raider/Bomber swarm as the next guy, I'm not totally sold on the Raider's long-term survivability,

 

I think you have it : the Raider is likely to be about as survivable as the CR-90.

 

The Raider/Bomber swarm is a neat concept, but may lend itself to being a one trick pony.  For example, it will run really fast and grab scenario objectives extremely well.  For survivability, a mix of hulls will perform better.

 

Yet, the idea of setting up a game where a swarm of Raiders and Fighters encounters a swarm of CR-90's and Fighters sounds like a ton o' fun!

 

You may be surprised.

That brace has counted for a lot for me, at least.

No redirect means it doesn't have the staying power under sustained fire, but that brace prevents it from being one shotted a lot of the time that a CR-90 would be.

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