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Assassin's Strike and Counter Attack

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For an upcoming session I've got a bit of a problem that was hoping to get some clarification on. 

 

One of the Acolytes has the Counter Attack Talent - and uses it to the fullest extent possible. 

 

The group is going to be facing Furies and their Assassin's Strike ability. 

 

So the question I've got comes down to the how the sequence of events would play out. 

 

Do the Furies get to leap back thanks to their Assassin's Strike ability before the Counter Attack can happen? Or does the Acolyte get a chance to swipe at them before they can move?

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I would say no, since the concept of a counter-attack is striking WHILE the adversary is striking. So before the fury ends its blow, the acolyte hit it in the face.

 

But if the fury got natural weapon only, these can't be parried if I remember well, so no counter attack against that.

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The rules aren't super clear with regards to when reactions take place. Do they occur during another's action, or after? The rules don't say (contrast this to a well written game like D&D4e which had Interrupts and Reactions and very clear rules for how they worked).

 

When in doubt, as a GM I think the best approach is to not totally shut your players down. In this case, if your player is not able to counter attack enemies with Assassin Strike they will feel they have wasted the XP spent and be a little miffed at you for totally nullifying a thing they want to do in the game. So my advice is to rule that counter strike happens, then the leap back from assassin strike.
 

Alexel you're misremembering the rules for natural weapons - creatures with this trait cannot parry. They can be parried just fine.

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The rules aren't super clear with regards to when reactions take place. Do they occur during another's action, or after? The rules don't say (contrast this to a well written game like D&D4e which had Interrupts and Reactions and very clear rules for how they worked).

 

When in doubt, as a GM I think the best approach is to not totally shut your players down. In this case, if your player is not able to counter attack enemies with Assassin Strike they will feel they have wasted the XP spent and be a little miffed at you for totally nullifying a thing they want to do in the game. So my advice is to rule that counter strike happens, then the leap back from assassin strike.

 

Alexel you're misremembering the rules for natural weapons - creatures with this trait cannot parry. They can be parried just fine.

See this is what I had in mind. Generally I like to lean towards the players - after all the NPCs feelings aren't going to get hurt if they don't get to do all their super cool stuff before they die. 

 

My only reticence in this instance is this is the Big Boss Battle, there will be other things occurring other than just the Furies attacking, but I do think that this will basically side-line the player into a drudge role without their consent. 

 

Unless someone has Word of God on this, I would go along with what you've said cps, the player will be able to Counter Attack before the Furies can Assassin Strike their way out of it.

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I would say no, since the concept of a counter-attack is striking WHILE the adversary is striking. So before the fury ends its blow, the acolyte hit it in the face.

 

But if the fury got natural weapon only, these can't be parried if I remember well, so no counter attack against that.

I'm pretty sure you can parry natural weapons, you just can't parry with them. 

Edited by Duskwalker

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I can't see anything about Assassin Strike that would cause it to negate Counter Attack.

Only attacks that are immune to being parried would offer this kind of utility.

It wasn't a question of being negated as such, more what is the sequence of events. If they can move before Counter-Attack takes place, then they're too far away for Melee range - they move pretty quickly. That's the reason I was looking for clarification on the sequence of events. 

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I can't see anything about Assassin Strike that would cause it to negate Counter Attack.

Only attacks that are immune to being parried would offer this kind of utility.

It wasn't a question of being negated as such, more what is the sequence of events. If they can move before Counter-Attack takes place, then they're too far away for Melee range - they move pretty quickly. That's the reason I was looking for clarification on the sequence of events. 

 

 

Maybe do an opposed agility test, the Fury wins they dodge out of range before the PC can counterattack, they lose, the counter-attack goes off?

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The rules aren't super clear with regards to when reactions take place. Do they occur during another's action, or after? The rules don't say (contrast this to a well written game like D&D4e which had Interrupts and Reactions and very clear rules for how they worked).

 

When in doubt, as a GM I think the best approach is to not totally shut your players down. In this case, if your player is not able to counter attack enemies with Assassin Strike they will feel they have wasted the XP spent and be a little miffed at you for totally nullifying a thing they want to do in the game. So my advice is to rule that counter strike happens, then the leap back from assassin strike.

 

Alexel you're misremembering the rules for natural weapons - creatures with this trait cannot parry. They can be parried just fine.

As I have played a Moritat with that skill set, yes you can bounce away but 1st you have to deal with that counterattack if they parry or vice versa

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 Indeed, reactions cannot be taken on your turn and a counter attack is made on your turn as a result of your attack, you can't dodge or parry it. OP, I would say that the Furies make a -10 Dodge check as part of their assassins strike talent, if they fail they are eligible to be counter-struck.

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